9-7 in an injury riddled season...not bad

[sundevil04]

Go

Alright so despite my mounting frustrations from this weeks thumping and last weeks debacle against SF. When I take a step back and look at the wole of the season and what is to come, I see us sitting at 6-7 still very much alive in the wildcard race and headed into three games that we will be favored in. If things pan out as they should, we'll be sitting at 9-7 with a playoff bid likely coming down to a tie breaker. All in all 9-7 is a VERY good season especialy when talking about our Cardinals. Not to mention how the injury bug has bitten many of our key players

Injuries to key players missing significant time

Lienart
Q
Fitz
Ross
A.Johnson
Levi
Pope
Wilson
Dansby
Francisco
Chike
Berry
Green

A strong chance at 9-7...all things considered, including 4 VERY close losses to Was, Bal, and sf x 2. A couple botched Fg's away from 10-13 wins in a season with and injury problems MUCH larger than most teams endured...NOT BAD!
________
Dodge Shadow

 

[Cheesebeef]

Alright so despite my mounting frustrations from this weeks thumping and last weeks debacle against SF. When I take a step back and look at the wole of the season and what is to come, I see us sitting at 6-7 still very much alive in the wildcard race and headed into three games that we will be favored in.

Considering that we're likely to have the exact same record as the Saints next week and we're a notoriously horrendous road team playing in New Orleans, how on Earth do you come to the conclusion that we'll be favored in that game?

 

[Darth Llama]

Alright so despite my mounting frustrations from this weeks thumping and last weeks debacle against SF. When I take a step back and look at the wole of the season and what is to come, I see us sitting at 6-7 still very much alive in the wildcard race and headed into three games that we will be favored in. If things pan out as they should, we'll be sitting at 9-7 with a playoff bid likely coming down to a tie breaker. All in all 9-7 is a VERY good season especialy when talking about our Cardinals. Not to mention how the injury bug has bitten many of our key players

Injuries to key players missing significant time

Lienart
Q
Fitz
Ross
A.Johnson
Levi
Pope
Wilson
Dansby
Francisco
Chike
Berry
Green

A strong chance at 9-7...all things considered, including 4 VERY close losses to Was, Bal, and sf x 2. A couple botched Fg's away from 10-13 wins in a season with and injury problems MUCH larger than most teams endured...NOT BAD!

This is a great post.

While it's normal to be extremely frustrated after going into Seattle and getting destroyed, if you look at the big picture, it's pretty encouraging.

If you had told me during the off season that this team would lose all the players listed above and still have a realistic shot at a non losing record and possibly even a Wild Card, I would tell you to put down the crack pipe and step back slowly. To go from where we were this time last year to where we are this year with so many injuries is actually quite impressive.

Give Whiz time, he's improving this team, but it's going to take a little more time. Let him get some more of the guys he wants in here, and cut some of the dead weight before you judge how good or bad he is as a coach. I think he's done quite a bit with very little this year. Not bad for a Rookie Head Coach.

 

[TheHopToad]

I think the Cards will finish 8-8 at best. IMO no way we'll win next week at New Orleans. I see Drew Brees having a field day.

I wouldn't even put it past the Rams to sneak up and bite the Cards in the ass the last week, which would put us at 7-9. For some reason, that game scares me.

 

[sundevil04]

Go

I think the Cards will finish 8-8 at best. IMO no way we'll win next week at New Orleans. I see Drew Brees having a field day.

I wouldn't even put it past the Rams to sneak up and bite the Cards in the ass the last week, which would put us at 7-9. For some reason, that game scares me.

Wasn't Derek Anderson supposed to have a field day as well???
________
Medical Marijuana States

 

[DaisyCutter]

Since when is Aaron Francisco a "key player"? Karlos Dansby missed "significant time"? Al Johnson did? Is there really any need to overstate our situation like this? The fact of the matter is that our meltdowns happened when most of the team was healthy.

The Bucs have 12 players on injured reserve and they're a game away from clinching their division. No excuses. 8-8 is still an attainable goal for this season, and a result that would about have satisfied most realistic fans at the beginning of the season.

Injuries happen to every team.

FYI - Derek Anderson had his third-highest passing total of the season against the Cards. And everyone knows that this is a different team on the road. You beat the Saints by passing on them and taking advantage of their below-average cornerbacks. Will the Cards have the personnel to do that?

 

[joeshmo]

We are still in the top half of the league when it comes to missed games by starters, higher the ranking the better. Patriots are #1, Rams are last, Bucs are 2nd to last. As for where we exactly rank I am not sure the fantasy football radio show I listened to didnt give a full list or rankings.

As for the key players on the list.

Fransisco - if losing a special teamer is a big blow then we have issues.
Wilson and Q - We won 2 games without them, why cant we win more without them.
Dansby missed 2 games I think.
Ross - Once we drafted Brown, Ross was no longer a key player.
Pope - was out for half a game and were getting blown out at that point.
Fitz - We won the game he missed.

Our injuries are not any worse or any better then most of the rest of the league.

 

[Jttsaz]

I still like us at home but I don't see us beating the Saints. I think 8-8 is what the Cards are looking at. We're all gonna kick ourselves when we look back on this season and all the points left on the field. How this team gets swept by the 49ers is beyond me. Those 2 games are the difference between going to the playoffs and not IMO...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I still like us at home but I don't see us beating the Saints. I think 8-8 is what the Cards are looking at. We're all gonna kick ourselves when we look back on this season and all the points left on the field. How this team gets swept by the 49ers is beyond me. Those 2 games are the difference between going to the playoffs and not IMO...

I would be very happy with an 8-8 record.

 

[Duckjake]

I would be very happy with an 8-8 record.

Now maybe, but 8-8 with two losses to the 3-10 49ers is a huge disappointment.

9-7 would be much better. We need a winning season to get this outfit out of its 8 year rut.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm with DuckJake the 8-8 would be great if not for the 2 losses to SF. That's killed this season. We had a very weak schedule I've been saying this all year we had a very good chance to sneak into the playoffs because our schedule was so weak.

We gave away any chance to do that by losing to the 49ers twice, it's HIGHLy unlikely now we get in.

With all the key injuries we'd get rolled in the playoffs anyways but I just hate to see us forfeit a chance to even play because of those 2 horrible losses.

 

[joeshmo]

I'm with DuckJake the 8-8 would be great if not for the 2 losses to SF. That's killed this season. We had a very weak schedule I've been saying this all year we had a very good chance to sneak into the playoffs because our schedule was so weak.

We gave away any chance to do that by losing to the 49ers twice, it's HIGHLy unlikely now we get in.

With all the key injuries we'd get rolled in the playoffs anyways but I just hate to see us forfeit a chance to even play because of those 2 horrible losses.

3rd easiest schedule in the NFL this year only Seattle and Dallas have had easier schedules.

 

[Renz]

We are still in the top half of the league when it comes to missed games by starters, higher the ranking the better. Patriots are #1, Rams are last, Bucs are 2nd to last. As for where we exactly rank I am not sure the fantasy football radio show I listened to didnt give a full list or rankings.

As for the key players on the list.

Fransisco - if losing a special teamer is a big blow then we have issues.
Wilson and Q - We won 2 games without them, why cant we win more without them.
Dansby missed 2 games I think.
Ross - Once we drafted Brown, Ross was no longer a key player.
Pope - was out for half a game and were getting blown out at that point.
Fitz - We won the game he missed.

Our injuries are not any worse or any better then most of the rest of the league.

I disagree. Francisco would have played instead of Celestin. Green, Chike and Leinart were big losses, IMO, that you fail to mention.

Maybe a team can survive a game or two w/out guys like Green, Wilson, Q/Fitz etc., but eventually it catches up to you.

 

[joeshmo]

I disagree. Francisco would have played instead of Celestin. Green, Chike and Leinart were big losses, IMO, that you fail to mention.

Maybe a team can survive a game or two w/out guys like Green, Wilson, Q/Fitz etc., but eventually it catches up to you.

Didnt mention some players becuase for the most part I agree with them being on the list of key players.

Green has only been out for 2 games. We had him for most of the season, even though he was ranked 28th in the league against #1 WR's and gave up the most recieving TD's then any other DB on the team so I am not exactly sure why he is a big loss especially having only not had him for 2 games so far.

Fransisco playing or not playing would not have made any differences. He is a below average safety who is on the team becuase he is a special teamer.

Once again we are not more injured then most other teams in the league. All other teams are dealing with starters missing time as well. Injuries is not and should be be an excuse for us or any other team for that matter.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We are still in the top half of the league when it comes to missed games by starters, higher the ranking the better. Patriots are #1, Rams are last, Bucs are 2nd to last. As for where we exactly rank I am not sure the fantasy football radio show I listened to didnt give a full list or rankings.

As for the key players on the list.

Fransisco - if losing a special teamer is a big blow then we have issues.
Wilson and Q - We won 2 games without them, why cant we win more without them.
Dansby missed 2 games I think.
Ross - Once we drafted Brown, Ross was no longer a key player.
Pope - was out for half a game and were getting blown out at that point.
Fitz - We won the game he missed.

Our injuries are not any worse or any better then most of the rest of the league.

I couldn't disagree more, and I would like to know who is considered a "starter" on this team per the radio show you mentioned.

We all knew the depth on this team sucked before the season started and we could not afford injuries.....and injuries are what we got. The shock is our offensive line seems to have the best depth out of any spot on the field.

Fransisco - It is a big loss. Why? Cause with Adrian Wilson being out he should be in there. He is not close to Wilson in talent but he is MUCH MUCH MUCH better then Oliver Celestin who is completely lost out there. You are talking about a drop off from an All-Pro saftey to a 3rd string safety in his first year in the system. I can see where Fransisco not being here for the team being huge.

Q and A.Wilson - Two all pros. Two captains. One is the biggest key to our offense, and the other is the biggest key to our defense. Yeah, we won 2 games with them out.....but not against a team with the talent that Seattle has. REALLY, do you think them not being on our team right is not making a difference ?

And there are names that should also be brought out:

Berry, and Okeafor - OUT. Our best and second best pass rushers, out for the year. Thus Dockett gets doubled and triple teamed and that would take our 3rd pass rusher out of the equation. Wilson is out so you can't blitz him. Our pass rush now consists of Daryl Blackstock, Calvin Pace, and ??????? Yeah, I see how this doesn't hurt our team.

M.Leinart - If you wanna base his play on 4 games that is fine. But him being out for the year was a HUGE blow. It throws all work done in the offseason out the window, and put us in a horrible spot for a month.

And that is just our IR list we have players who have been "banged up" to say the least:

Boldin - playing at 80% for most of the year, and it was noticable.

Warner - Is playing with one arm.

Fitzgerald is playing on one leg.

That is A LOT of injuries to contend with. Furthermore, the team has played well under the circumstances, at least in my opinion.

The injuries are an excuse, I agree. But for our team it is a valid excuse. Yes, there are teams worse off then us, but then there are teams that are much better off. The Pats are gonna go undefeated....look at the history of their injury list for this season, it is amazing in this day and age.

I see your side of it Joe, I just don't agree.

 

[joeshmo]

We all knew the depth on this team sucked before the season started and we could not afford injuries.....and injuries are what we got. The shock is our offensive line seems to have the best depth out of any spot on the field.

First a starter is one who is a starter on the teams official depth chart.

Second that statement makes my point for me. Just becuase you dont have depth doesnt mean injuries can be used as an excuse any more then any other team. It just means your front office did very poor planning. Bad planning on a FO part doesnt make something any more of an excuse then any other team. If you want to use injuries as an excuse then you better be bashing the front office as well.

Injuries is nothing more then an excuse.

 

[D-Dogg]

I would be very happy with an 8-8 record.

I would too. Very happy.

Despite our cake schedule and blown games...I have to respect improvement.


I don't see it happening though.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I don't understand why Leinart is being considered a "big loss" this season. I mean, it definitely sets the franchise back, because Leinart is missing much-needed playing time (an 8-8 season where Leinart gets 14 starts is going to be much more promising than an 8-8 season where Leinart gets 4 starts then ends up on IR because there's going to be more to build upon). But Warner--even after yesterday's game--is the 15th-rated QB in the NFL. He's completing 60+ percent of his passes. Does anyone really think that this team would be better in the W/L column had #7 been available?

Arizona is 8th in the NFL is passing attempts. They've had to throw the ball all over the field because the rushing offense has been so ineffective. A more effective game manager might have made a difference, but I'm not sure what game it would have done so.

The problem is going to be next year, when Leinart hasn't seen all the defenses he saw this year (especially from division opponents), and he's not going to have all the film.

 

[jefftheshark]

I don't understand why Leinart is being considered a "big loss" this season. I mean, it definitely sets the franchise back, because Leinart is missing much-needed playing time (an 8-8 season where Leinart gets 14 starts is going to be much more promising than an 8-8 season where Leinart gets 4 starts then ends up on IR because there's going to be more to build upon). But Warner--even after yesterday's game--is the 15th-rated QB in the NFL. He's completing 60+ percent of his passes. Does anyone really think that this team would be better in the W/L column had #7 been available?

Arizona is 8th in the NFL is passing attempts. They've had to throw the ball all over the field because the rushing offense has been so ineffective. A more effective game manager might have made a difference, but I'm not sure what game it would have done so.

The problem is going to be next year, when Leinart hasn't seen all the defenses he saw this year (especially from division opponents), and he's not going to have all the film.

I do.

I think that Leinart would have gotten past his shaky start and would have performed at the level we expected him to do when we drafted him.

To think otherwise would mean that we wasted the pick on a guy who is not going to be our QBOF, and I'm not ready to concede that yet.

JTS

 

[Russ Smith]

I do.

I think that Leinart would have gotten past his shaky start and would have performed at the level we expected him to do when we drafted him.

To think otherwise would mean that we wasted the pick on a guy who is not going to be our QBOF, and I'm not ready to concede that yet.

JTS

Yep completely agree Matt would have played better than he started out playing and more importantly wouldn't have turned the ball over as much as Kurt has.



Kurt gutted it out this year gets lots of credit for that, but absolutely not having Leinart hurt us this year, Kurt simply doesn't know when to manage the game his poor decisions have really hurt us at times this year.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I do.

I think that Leinart would have gotten past his shaky start and would have performed at the level we expected him to do when we drafted him.

To think otherwise would mean that we wasted the pick on a guy who is not going to be our QBOF, and I'm not ready to concede that yet.

JTS

I'm interested in how. Here are Warner's stats as a starter:

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD As Starter161 261 1935 61.7 7.41 62 14 13 17.0 81.5 8 -4 -0.5 0 0
I hope that comes out. He's completing 61.7% of his passes, 81.5 rating on a team that still can't run the ball early in games.

I think that Leinart can be really, really good. I think that he's a guy that can lead this team to championships. But I don't think he's ever going to be a guy that can carry an offense when surrounded by average talent. He's more Tom Brady than Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. Brady's a great player, but when surrounded by average talent, he puts up only okay numbers.

The problem this season wasn't the quarterback position. Warner's been frustrating, but not frustratingly boneheaded like he was with the Giants or last season before Leinart was put in. He's not like Jay Cutler out there where you've often wondered what he was thinking.

Again, I like Leinart, and I think he's going to be very good in this league for a very long time. But I don't think he was going to complete 65% of his passes and throw for a 2:1 TD:INT ratio when he's learning his fourth offense in three years and doesn't have a running game to support him.

I guess part of me wonders what "level" you expect from Leinart once he matures. 70% completion percentage? 38 TDs per season? I don't think that Matt's ever going to be that guy. He's not a guy where you're going to say, "OMG, I can't believe he just made that play!" Most of his game is above his shoulders and between his ears, and I think that Warner has done a pretty good job at playing within himself this season.

Again, JMHO.

 

[Linderbee]

Alright so despite my mounting frustrations from this weeks thumping and last weeks debacle against SF.

I'm shocked no one has mentioned that we didn't play SF last week...we beat Cleveland...

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm shocked no one has mentioned that we didn't play SF last week...we beat Cleveland...

germans, pearl harbor and all.

 

[jefftheshark]

I'm interested in how. Here are Warner's stats as a starter:

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD As Starter161 261 1935 61.7 7.41 62 14 13 17.0 81.5 8 -4 -0.5 0 0
I hope that comes out. He's completing 61.7% of his passes, 81.5 rating on a team that still can't run the ball early in games.

I think that Leinart can be really, really good. I think that he's a guy that can lead this team to championships. But I don't think he's ever going to be a guy that can carry an offense when surrounded by average talent. He's more Tom Brady than Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. Brady's a great player, but when surrounded by average talent, he puts up only okay numbers.

The problem this season wasn't the quarterback position. Warner's been frustrating, but not frustratingly boneheaded like he was with the Giants or last season before Leinart was put in. He's not like Jay Cutler out there where you've often wondered what he was thinking.

Again, I like Leinart, and I think he's going to be very good in this league for a very long time. But I don't think he was going to complete 65% of his passes and throw for a 2:1 TD:INT ratio when he's learning his fourth offense in three years and doesn't have a running game to support him.

I guess part of me wonders what "level" you expect from Leinart once he matures. 70% completion percentage? 38 TDs per season? I don't think that Matt's ever going to be that guy. He's not a guy where you're going to say, "OMG, I can't believe he just made that play!" Most of his game is above his shoulders and between his ears, and I think that Warner has done a pretty good job at playing within himself this season.

Again, JMHO.

1) I don't think of Fitz, Q and (to a certain extent) James as being "average". And as much grief as I give to Pope, I think that he could be better than average next year. The line is a work in progress, as is the coaching. I'm basically and optimist, so I think we will improve to better than average.

2) If Leinart is really paying attention this year, as he says he is, then the year is not a total waste. He is seeing how Whiz works his system, and since I don't believe that our current HC is going to be fired (In spite of swd's wishes) this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

3) Warner is having a good year, not a great year, and as Russ said, his turnovers negate a lot of the good he does. I like Warner as a person and as a backup, but there was a very good reason for why we drafted Leinart, and there were very good reasons why Leinart replaced Warner last year. IMO, Warner is only the answer if the question is, "How do we maintain mediocrity". (Of course I realize that mediocrity is improvement over "sucks", but that isn't what this is all about anyway)

4) I think that Leinart is going to manage the games better and get us into a position to win games. I have no idea what his stats are going to be, and I can care less if he is a great fantasy football player or not.

JTS

 

[DaisyCutter]

1) I don't think of Fitz, Q and (to a certain extent) James as being "average". And as much grief as I give to Pope, I think that he could be better than average next year. The line is a work in progress, as is the coaching. I'm basically and optimist, so I think we will improve to better than average.

2) If Leinart is really paying attention this year, as he says he is, then the year is not a total waste. He is seeing how Whiz works his system, and since I don't believe that our current HC is going to be fired (In spite of swd's wishes) this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

3) Warner is having a good year, not a great year, and as Russ said, his turnovers negate a lot of the good he does. I like Warner as a person and as a backup, but there was a very good reason for why we drafted Leinart, and there were very good reasons why Leinart replaced Warner last year. IMO, Warner is only the answer if the question is, "How do we maintain mediocrity". (Of course I realize that mediocrity is improvement over "sucks", but that isn't what this is all about anyway)

4) I think that Leinart is going to manage the games better and get us into a position to win games. I have no idea what his stats are going to be, and I can care less if he is a great fantasy football player or not.

JTS

I totally agree with all of this. All of it. But I'm not sure how you can assume that it would have happened this year. I agree that all of that will probably happen next year, with the possible exception of #2, which would take a little more time. I definitely think that this team can be better than average very soon. After last year's results, 8-8 and an average team is an improvement.

One thing that I worry about is that Leinart doesn't seem to have an earpiece in or anything on the sideline, or be carrying a clipboard or anything like that. Maybe this is a function of him being on IR--I have no idea, but I'd be more comfortable with the argument that he's becoming comfortable with Whis's playcalling and game management if he were being a more active participant in it. I'm not a sideline body linguist or anything--it's probably the sideline shots the networks have been providing.

But my question is why you might think that Leinart would have been better this year. I think that Warner's experience has helped take care of some of the problems that Whis has had with getting plays in on time and that sort of thing--part of the reason that we've seen Warner so frustrated this season. Long-term, Leinart is hopefully the solution, but I'm mostly focusing on this year right now. Warner and Leinart were probably about the same--which is why they were sharing time. The reason that Leinart was the starter was because it was essential for him to get experience.

As for Boldin/Fitz/Edge/Pope being above-average as a group? Yeah, definitely. But Boldin's been a non-factor this season, and Fitz has been amazing until the last couple weeks. Edge hasn't gotten much of a chance to be effective, and Pope has been maybe the most inconsistent player on the team. I still think that this roster has the makings of an above-average group, but right now they don't compare to Addai/Wayne/Harrison or Moss/anyone else. They're nowhere near as bad as what Brady had to deal with last season.

With that crew, the Cards have been 15th-ranked offense in the NFL. Do you think that with Leinart under center this year, they would be significantly better? 10th? I don't know. I can't say that. Something makes me doubt it because Warner's arguably better against the blitz (again, right now) because he has a quicker release and is able to locate the open man/hot route.

I don't think that Warner should be the starter next season. I think that the future of this franchise rests with Leinart, and he should fulfill that expectation. But I don't see Warner killing this team this season like he did last year, and so I wonder where people see that Leinart would have been significantly improved. Maybe the end zone play against the 49ers. But the '07 version of Warner doesn't seem much like the '06 edition.

We've been in the position to win games this season with Warner, except for the Panthers game that he didn't play much in, and last week. I'm an optimist, as well, and I think this team has an opportunity to be pretty good next season. I think that Whis deserves some space. I'm not sold on the WR corps and I don't know what we're going to do with the 3rd WR position next year. But this team can be good.

I just don't think that the gap between Warner and Leinart this year is going to make the difference between 8-8 and 10-6. Hopefully, it will next year.

As long as Leinart gets his footwork straightened out before the season starts.