Why a Coaching Change Now Makes Sense

[Pariah]

If the Cardinals can find a proven NFL coach willing to come to the desert before the end of the season, I say bring him in.

While I understand the reasoning of some who take the position that it won't do us any good to make that change mid-season, I content that it may benefit the team in the near-future (as early as next season) to bring a long-term solution in now.

If we can change the head coach by mid season, a new coach will have 8 games to evaluate the players on the field in practice and in games. This is vastly different than watching game film or seeing athletes practice. 8 games will provide enough hands-on knowledge of players and staff to bring an educated perspective on the teams strengths and weaknesses.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to fire Mac only to bring in an interim HC. But there are plenty of capable guys out there that I'd like to see come in before the bye week to assess this team: Denny Green, Tom Coughlin, maybe coach Ditka, or, a name that I don't know if I've seen bantied about here: Jim Mora.

With a half-season to assess talent we might find out if McCown is Mac's pet project or if he really does have the tools to be the QB of the future. We might find out that Bryant CAN play DE effectively or if he truly belongs at DT, or that with the proper blitz packages maybe we can put pressure on the QB or is it a simple matter of lack of talent. I don't think we'll be able to find these things out with Mac at the helm, and I think it'd be better to find out sooner rather than later.

 

[wierwolf]

Ditka I doubt would come here. He said he was embarased for the city of Chicago and all the bears fans. I wonder what he'd say about this team... Even though I think He'd be the best man to fire this team up....

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by Pariah
If the Cardinals can find a proven NFL coach willing to come to the desert before the end of the season, I say bring him in...

If we can change the head coach by mid season, a new coach will have 8 games to evaluate the players on the field in practice and in games. This is vastly different than watching game film or seeing athletes practice. 8 games will provide enough hands-on knowledge of players and staff to bring an educated perspective on the teams strengths and weaknesses.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to fire Mac only to bring in an interim HC. But there are plenty of capable guys out there that I'd like to see come in before the bye week to assess this team: Denny Green, Tom Coughlin, maybe coach Ditka...

Pariah:

I completely agree. I've been an advocate of Tom Coughlin, and I'll bet he'd be on the next plane to come out and "assess" the Cardinals. This past summer, he visited four different training camps (of teams that had head coaches) to serve as an un-paid consultant. Speaks volumes about both his desire to get back in the game--even though he's getting paid $2.5 million a year to sit at home--and the respect he has from his peers.

Give the coaching staff and players eight games to audition for their jobs under Coughlin's review. Then, in the offseason, the rebuilding begins.

WC

 

[Bobcat]

Pariah


I completely agree!!!!!!

Allan

 

[wembley88]

Wild Card

I am TOTALLY with you on that post
How do we make that happen?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ugh. No Tom Coughlin for me please.

What he does to injured players is criminal. I want us to find a young hotshot coach, not a retread.

Denny Green would be good if he would relinquish his demand to have total control over personel.

 

[wembley88]

Krang

what's the problem with wanting control over personnel? I didnt know he had that requirement but is it necessarily a bad thing? Presumably he doesnt want to be left in the hands of Graves or equivalents who in effect control his destiny with their drafting ability etc?

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by wembley88
Wild Card

I am TOTALLY with you on that post
How do we make that happen?

Wembley88:

Prayer. Lots of prayer. Burnt offerings and virgin sacrifices, if you think it'll help.

WC

 

[wembley88]

what? I have to sacrifice myself...?

 

[Skkorpion]

The jobs of coach and player personnel director are too big for one person to handle and I like the direction Roid Graves has given us.

Both Tom Coughlin and Mike Ditka are people I don't like and don't want as coaches here. Especially Ditka. The guy is a self-absorbed crass ass who rode Buddy Ryan's defense to a Super Bowl, then destroyed his team in two years.

 

[AZCB34]

Let's get some things clear here:

1. IF the Cards fire Mac in season, they will not hire someone from outside to finish out the season. It will be an internal move with an assistant coming on as interim. Why? because there is no guy out there who is going to take a job like this in the middle of the season when he cannot have his guys in place and his system in place. It just won't happen and I firmly believe that Mac is here for the duration of the year at a minimum

2. I simply cannot understand the love for Coughlin. Do you guys not read and hear what his ex-players say about him? He is a power hungry guy who loses players attitudes even when he is winning. Krang alluded to how he treats injured players...go out and read the article about the JAX player who almost lost his leg due to Coughlin/Jax medical staff. Give me a break.

3. For that matter, can we get off the ridiculousness of going for a "name" HC? There isn't enough money in the Cards coffers to sucker a top tier HC here...hell there may not be enough money on the planet/. Most of the guys mentioned will want personnel control and Graves (right or wrong) will still have control. The Cards will likely be forced to choose for a smaller, shallower pool of HC candidates due to preceptions in the football community (both college and pro).

4. If I hear one more person say Ditka I may actually scream...and I am a Bears fan. Forget Ditka. He would not work down here, period end of story. His personality doesn;t fit what Bidwill/Graves want to run this team. He is too high profile for them and he would challenge them publically if he felt it was needed.

I apologize for this rant but I am freaking pissed at what I saw Sunday and then to think some think Dennis Green is going to be falling all over himself to come here...all I can say is

amazing, simply amazing.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
The jobs of coach and player personnel director are too big for one person to handle and I like the direction Roid Graves has given us.

Both Tom Coughlin and Mike Ditka are people I don't like and don't want as coaches here.

Excellent comments Skkorp. My sentiments, on both points, exactly. It just doesn't sound like you like Graves too much when you call him Roid.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Who cares what his ex-players say about him(Coughlin).They don't like him because he doesn't coddle them and kicks their asses and makes them held accountable for their actions.A HC isn't supposed to be your buddy.You don't see a love-fest down in Dallas between Parcells and his players.Larry Allen has been complaining that Parcells calls him a fat ass.These players are making millions of dollars to perform.For a coach to make them perform to an acceptable level is not too much to ask.And, if you talk to most players,they like coaches who are tough on them and demand they get better.I think Coughlin is a very good fit here.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by wembley88
Krang

what's the problem with wanting control over personnel? I didnt know he had that requirement but is it necessarily a bad thing? Presumably he doesnt want to be left in the hands of Graves or equivalents who in effect control his destiny with their drafting ability etc?

Well, Looking at the Vikings defense over the time that Green was there will give you a good indication. Year after year he drafted defensive players that left everyone shaking their heads.

That's why he is no longer the coach of the Vikings, combined with the fact that his players (mainly Moss and Carter) didn't listen to him anymore. He's a great offensive mind (his offensive draft picks were generally pretty good) but he made many mistakes selecting defensive players.

Tom Coughlin is one of the most hated coaches in the league, by players and other coaches. What he did to that backup olineman, Novak, was plain wrong and he should never coach in the league again.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Who cares what his ex-players say about him(Coughlin).They don't like him because he doesn't coddle them and kicks their asses and makes them held accountable for their actions.A HC isn't supposed to be your buddy.You don't see a love-fest down in Dallas between Parcells and his players.Larry Allen has been complaining that Parcells calls him a fat ass.These players are making millions of dollars to perform.For a coach to make them perform to an acceptable level is not too much to ask.And, if you talk to most players,they like coaches who are tough on them and demand they get better.I think Coughlin is a very good fit here.

Did you read what he did to Novak? The dude almost lost his leg, and he is even luckier that he didn't lose his life.

It has nothing to do with "coddling" it has to do with human decency, and Coughlin has none. Not to mention the fact that he wants full personel control and he might even be worse than Denny Green at that.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Who cares what his ex-players say about him(Coughlin).They don't like him because he doesn't coddle them and kicks their asses and makes them held accountable for their actions.A HC isn't supposed to be your buddy.You don't see a love-fest down in Dallas between Parcells and his players.Larry Allen has been complaining that Parcells calls him a fat ass.These players are making millions of dollars to perform.For a coach to make them perform to an acceptable level is not too much to ask.And, if you talk to most players,they like coaches who are tough on them and demand they get better.I think Coughlin is a very good fit here.

Being a tough coach is different from being hated and the players not playing all out for him...which IMO is what happened with Coughlin. I want a hard nosed coach but Parcells handles each player differently based on what that players "needs" are (ie yells at some keeps picking up others when they fail). Coughlin is just a ruthless coach and the players will turn away from that too fast.

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Did you read what he did to Novak? The dude almost lost his leg, and he is even luckier that he didn't lose his life.

It has nothing to do with "coddling" it has to do with human decency, and Coughlin has none.

Yep.

It's not that the players don't like him. They don't trust him.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by AZCB34
[1]can we get off the ridiculousness of going for a "name" HC?

[2]If I hear one more person say Ditka I may actually scream

[3]he would challenge them publically if he felt it was needed.

1. I'm not in favor of going for a "name;" I'm in favor of going for experience.

2. "Ditka."

3. Why is it a problem for someone to stand up against what is clearly not working? I think that's exactly what needs to be done.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Pariah
1. I'm not in favor of going for a "name;" I'm in favor of going for experience.

2. "Ditka."

3. Why is it a problem for someone to stand up against what is clearly not working? I think that's exactly what needs to be done.

First things first:

2.

Now to the business at hand:

1. Wasn't attacking you in particular but I am sooo pissed about what I subjected myself to Sunday that when I hear anyone mention these high profile names...well let's just say it makes no sense.

3. Nothing wrong with them being challenged. I completely agree that is what is needed BUT my point was more along the lines of Graves/Bidwill will not a hire a guy who has the known history of publically attacking front offices/players. They want a warm fuzzy coach who will ...well let's just say it...be a yes man.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Coughlin had an expansion team almost to the Super Bowl.How can that be players not performing for him.I'm sure you can find horror stories about alot coaches mistreating players.Did Minnesota mistreat Stringer?

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Coughlin had an expansion team almost to the Super Bowl.How can that be players not performing for him.I'm sure you can find horror stories about alot coaches mistreating players.Did Minnesota mistreat Stringer?

Cmon Cbus. It was their 2nd year and Coughlin's team was in heaven. Simply put his act only worked early and the longer his sadistic approach lasted, the tuned out the players became.

No problem. You want Coughlin. I hope you get your wish.

As for Stringer...well a bit low on your part since I recall some info coming out saying he was using some substance (not illegal or anything) that may have been a culprit in his death. MIN may have had some faults in it but Coughlin takes the cake in my book.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Coughlin forced players to play through injuries that no one should have to play through.

He threatened their jobs, no mattter how hard the player played.

Novak was a good backup olineman for the Jags, and he was forced to play the day he had surgery.

The jury (in the case that Novak won against the team doctor) determined that the doctor and head coach (Coughlin) were working together. The doctor was telling players that they could play, even when they shouldn't because Coughlin wanted it that way.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I simply cannot understand the love for Coughlin. Do you guys not read and hear what his ex-players say about him? He is a power hungry guy who loses players attitudes even when he is winning. Krang alluded to how he treats injured players...go out and read the article about the JAX player who almost lost his leg due to Coughlin/Jax medical staff. Give me a break.

AZCB34:

From SportsLine.com, 9/04/03:

http://www.superbowlxxxviii.com/nfl/story/6616212

>>During the past year, a handful of ex-Jaguars players who now play for other teams have commented on how much they now appreciate Coughlin. Some are guys who didn't come close to liking him when they were playing for the man.

"You really do come to admire the way he did things," said one player. "He may have busted our butts, and he could be a total ass at times, but he was a good football coach. That's more than I can say for a lot of guys in this league, including the guy I play for."<<

From ESPN.com, 11/04/02:

http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2002/0912/1431095.html

>>... a Jacksonville jury found that (team doctor Dr. Stephen) Lucie had committed medical malpractice and awarded (offensive lineman Jeff) Novak $4.35 million, plus another $1 million for his wife Kim for her loss of his services and comfort. It was easily the largest jury award ever against an NFL doctor... More than a week later, the U.S. Circuit Court judge presiding over the case threw out the verdict...

Lucie blames no one for his predicament. Not Coughlin, whom he said did not force him to clear injured players for games. Not Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver, who naturally would expect some return on his investment in players.<<

Draw your own conclusions. Me, I'd sign up Coughlin in a heartbeat. Nobody ever accused Vince Lombardi of being his players' best buddy, or of losing sleep over their injuries, right?

WC

 

[AZCB34]

WC, the problem isn't what his ex-players are saying now, it is what they were saying when they played for him. It sounds like a guy who is more pissed with his current coach or something than loving Coughlin.

Sorry, but I don't buy the Coughlin is great coach so we should look past how he treats his players BS.

And WC, Lombardi was in a different era when every coach was an ass and players took it upon themselves to play through pain...foolishly. I don't think a coach must be a friend but there is a difference from a task master and a sadistic jerk...and I think Coughlin is a sadistic jerk who loses his players.

No matter what, I don't believe he would come here but if everyone wants him I hope he does come here.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Being a tough coach is different from being hated and the players not playing all out for him...which IMO is what happened with Coughlin. I want a hard nosed coach but Parcells handles each player differently based on what that players "needs" are (ie yells at some keeps picking up others when they fail). Coughlin is just a ruthless coach and the players will turn away from that too fast.

Wildcard's post made it sound like Coughlin realized the error of his way is that possible? I don't want Frank Kush here but I do want a coach who recognizes that being buddies with all his players is not always a good thing in the NFL.

For example, Pete Carroll was a wonderful coordinator in the NFL, he's doing a great job at USC, but he was awful as an NFL headcoach precisely because players saw him as their friend, not their coach.