We could be looking at this in 2005 if we grow a pair in 2003:

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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QB: Leftwich
RB: McGahee, Shipp, Emmitt, Anderson
FB: Schlesinger
WR: McAddley, Gilmore, Tyrone Calico
TE: Kellen Winslow Jr, Freddie Jones
Shelton, Kendall, Johnson, Big, Clement


Yeah, baby. We're talking points. Lots of 'em. Enough to outscore Atlanta in the NFC Championship, and San Diego in the Superbowl.

I am a stinking genius.


I AM SECTION 11!!
COMMANDER OF THE NORTHERN BEER STANDS!
WITNESS TO ANDRE WADSWORTH, VICTIM OF THOMAS JONES!
I SHALL HAVE MY SUPERBOWL, IN THIS LIFE OR THE NEXT!!!!
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Why schslilngtsertier?

We have Hodgins.....

Because he's gooder. He's more betterest.



You didn't think I'd leave a Husker off of the O did ya?
 

RedStorm

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Hey S11 - Time to take your medication. Come on now. Slip into this little white jacket. We will take care of you. It's alright....
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Repeat: If we're going to try build a dominating defense, we need to draft Robertson this year and LANCE MITCHELL next year. Then we'll see just what we have in 2005 on defense.

We're going to have to win with at least one side of the ball that's completely dominating, and we need to decide in about a week which direction that is.


If it's offense that we're going to build by hand picking our players through the draft, then we gotta get Leftwich, McGahee (Move the #37 up if you have to. I'm totally serious), and one of the centers in the third, probably Johnson.

In 2004, Kellen Winslow Jr., Roy Williams, Reggie Williams, Rashaun Woods, Larry Fitzgerals will all most likely be availabel. The 2004 receiver class is going to be stacked.


There is absolutely no doubt that we can build a dominating, demoralizing, touchdown scoring maching by 2005. One good enough to win it all. The whole damn thing.
Our 2003 record means nothing, so don't put a bandaid on the situation. Put a PLAN together, and win with it.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Originally posted by SECTION 11
If it's offense that we're going to build by hand picking our players through the draft, then we gotta get Leftwich, McGahee (Move the #37 up if you have to. I'm totally serious), and one of the centers in the third, probably Johnson.

In 2004, Kellen Winslow Jr., Roy Williams, Reggie Williams, Rashaun Woods, Larry Fitzgerald will all most likely be available. The 2004 receiver class is going to be stacked.

There is absolutely no doubt that we can build a dominating, demoralizing, touchdown scoring maching by 2005. One good enough to win it all. The whole damn thing.
Our 2003 record means nothing, so don't put a bandaid on the situation. Put a PLAN together, and win with it.


I am going to repeat this daily until the draft.
 

Russ Smith

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
Repeat: If we're going to try build a dominating defense, we need to draft Robertson this year and LANCE MITCHELL next year. Then we'll see just what we have in 2005 on defense.


Iinteresting I had no idea Mitchell was from Los Banos until I looked it up after seeing your post. I go fishing near Los Banos all the time, I would have never guessed a top NFL prospect could come out of that area of California.

Where are you playing Lance OLB or standup DE?

There's always the next great player in college one DE who I think will be VERY intriguing next year is David Pollack at Georgia. He's a bit small(6'2") but he's listed at 275 and he looks like that may be legit. He had 14 sacks as a soph this year. he's going to be interesting, in some of the threads the subject of white DE's not getting treated fairly came up, that could be very interesting with Pollack who's white and a great player.

No idea how fast he is but he sure looks fast when he plays and supposedly right now scouts have him as a first rounder next year if he comes out. I'm betting he'll spend a whole year being compared to Wistrom(because of skin color).

If we get Suggs this year and you want a dominating defense just get Vince Wilfork next year. As Harry said a few months ago terrific prospect. Not there yet but the talent is unreal, he's bigger and quicker than Robertson and he's a special athlete. Deal with a lot of off field stuff and like Kennedy has had weight problems, but remarkable natural talent.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Mitchell is a MLB.

Rocky Calmus was fun and all, what with the name and the tackles per game, but Mitchell (just a hunch) is going to be a stud. I'm not sold on Mac, and we have NO replacement. We have to be strong at MLB if we're going to build a championship defense. Otherwise, we shouldn't even bother. Hence the offensive selections this year and next.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Originally posted by Russ Smith
David Pollack at Georgia.

I'm betting he'll spend a whole year being compared to Wistrom(because of skin color).

Maybe he'll just settle for "A Short Patrick Kerney"
 

jw7

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
Somebody convince me I'm not right.


Tell me how far we go with Suggs, and Chrissy Simms in 2005.

I can't convince you that you are not right...

As much as I agree with you, it ain't gonna happen. I'm getting the feeling more and more that Leftwich will be on the board and we'll pass on him :rolleyes:
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
We're going to have to win with at least one side of the ball that's completely dominating, and we need to decide in about a week which direction that is.

I've been reading this thread and have kind of been hoping that you were being your usual jocund self, but I'm beginning to think that you're being serious. I know you're a total Leftwich homer, Sec 11, but this is getting silly. Look behind the curtain, and you'll see that we're not far away from having a dominant D (to go along with out defense-oriented coach). Four players away, by my count, and the D will be peaking in 2005.

D-Line:
LDE: Kyle Vanden Bosch (2nd round, 2001) - 27 years old
DT: Wendell Bryant (1, 2002) - 25
DT: Ty Warren (2, 2003) - 24*
RDE: Terrell Suggs (1, 2003) - 23

LBs:
ROLB: Levar Fisher (2, 2002) - 26
MLB: Lance Mitchell (1, 2004) - 23*
LOLB: Raynoch (He changes his name back and goes to the Pro Bowl in 2004) Thompson (2, 2000) - 28

CBs:
Duane Starks (1, 1998) - 31
Drayton Florence (3, 2003) - 24*
David Barrett (4, 2000) - 28

S:
FS: Dexter Jackson (4, 1999) - 28
SS: Adrian Wilson (3, 2001) - 26

* - Denotes player who can be selected in other years, but needed to become dominant D.

See, Sec, by my count, we need three players on the Defense, of which we could easily get 2 in Draft 2003, to have a wicked-scary D for 2005. And they're almost all way young. To further illustrate my point, 8 of eleven players are already known commodities, because they've been on the team for at least a year.

Now, let's look at your offense heading into the 2005...
O-Line: I'm assuming that you see the O-line saying basically the same as it is now. Pete Kendall will be 32, Frank Garcia will be 33. This is the greatest known commodity, because we'll have seen all these players for at least two years.
RBs: You have an old guy (who will be 36 and you've somehow hypnotized into sitting at 3 on the depth chart), a guy who suffered a catastrophic knee injury 4 months ago, and a guy with one good year. Sounds like a recipe for 40 points a game.
QB: A #1 draft pick making $10 mil. a year, and may be worth it. The success rate for Top 10 QB prospects is probably lower than any other position in the Top 10 (I don't really have anything to back this up, but I suspect it's somewhere around there. It's a big unknown, but let's split the difference and say he ends up like Tim Couch.
TE: I assume you're spending the 2004 #1 on Winslow. So the D gets neglected again. Freddie Jones will be 31.
WR: The two starters haven't proven anything to anyone up to this point, one being an undrafted free agent rookie and the other a fifth-round selection. The slot player (a second rounder [no help for the D in the first 2 rounds of 2003!]) is just coming into his own, but still can't do much more than run fast in a straight line. Every time Byron drops back, he says a little prayer that the reciever will catch the ball.

Furthermore, you have an entire new coaching staff, because Coach Mac was fired after the 2003 season because the D wasn't able to stop anyone while the O struggled because of so much new personnell, and were blown out by 35 points in all but two games, which were won by field goals against last place teams.

Section 11, I know that you want us to draft Leftwich. Just say that, and don't make it seem like the Cards haven't already made the decision to build a solid D and a decent O. Tell the truth, and advocate that the Cards totally change direction right now and turn themselves into the Rams or the Saints.

I can't remember the last team that won the Super Bowl by outscoring opponents. The Rams might have done it in 1999, but they played good D. The 1998 (?) Vikes tried to do it, but lost to the Falcons in the NFC Champoinship game. The Saints the past two years have been all about O, and look where it got them. The Colts have been all about O, and they can't buy a win in the playoffs.

Don't say that going all-out on O is the best direction for the Cards to go from now on, because that's just not true. Say what is true, that you're tired of watching the games as they are, and are fine with a team that scored 27 points a game, but goes somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7 every year, but can't win in the playoffs.
 

Stronso

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Having a high scoring O is great and fun but D wins championships
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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That was solid, Jack.


I still think we're closer on offense given the fact that we have the #6 pick and a guy like Leftwich available, a solid line (perhaps the hardest part to put in place, IS in place), a bevy of complimentary skill players, a chance to take advantage of next years draft stregnth (receiver) and solid depth at running back whether or not McGahee pans out.
Leftwich and McGahee are both gambles, but if they pay off this offense would no doubt be dominating.

The old adage "defense wins championships" is bunk.
Running the ball wins championships. Winning the turn-over battle wins championships.
Winning's half the battle. Losing's half the battle.
Following the latest trend either way will get you nowhere.


Forgoing a chance to STEAL the leader of your franchise at number six because Fisher, Bryant, Wilson, Barrett, Suggs, are all going to the next Sapp, Brooks, Rice and Lynch is almost as silly as hoping Leftwich works out in the first place.

The offensive plan gambles on the #1 quarterback in the draft, and one of a number of first round receivers next year panning out, with a side bet on McGahee, who's gravy at that point.

The defensive plan involves significantly more risk.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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On a side note, who's running the show on offense?
Josh McCown?

Raise your hand if you have seen ANYTHING impressive about this guy.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Originally posted by kerouac9
I can't remember the last team that won the Super Bowl by outscoring opponents.



How about 12 out of the last 16 Superbowl winners?

Baltimore, New England (*), Tampa and the 91 Giants would be the exceptions.
The other twelve we solid on O, D, and ST, but Offense was their stregnth. Lead by a bad ass QB, and a bad ass RB.
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
The defensive plan involves significantly more risk.

I can't believe you're even saying this!!!! Look at the NFL FrontPage for ESPN.com right now, and there are 2-3 articles concerning the success of #1 QBs. The gist is that a #1 QB prospect has a 50/50 shot of being a solid QB, but less than that of being a superstar/pro bowler. The risk is compounded by the $35 mil contract that a #1 QB demands, and the assumption of a second such contract if the first "franchise" QB doesn't work out. I don't necessarily think that Leftwich will be the next Leaf or Schuler, but are you willing to shell out that kind of scratch for the next Kerry Collins or Tim Couch? I'm not.

Apparently, you think that our O-Line is far more solid than I do, and will be for the next three to five years. How many Pro-Bowls do we have on our O-Line? Oh yeah, zero. Big is a solid player, but there's a reason that he hasn't gone to a Pro-Bowl, and it only has a little to do with him playing out of position: He's underachieved. All of our O-line has underachieved. Are they a bunch of stiffs? No, they're all solid players, but they are only adequate at best at pass protecting (Jake was under some duress last season; he didn't fumble against the Panthers on his own), and they're not consistent in run-blocking. They're a solid unit, but I don't see them giving Byron the 3.5-seconds per three-step drop all game long in order for him to complete the passes that you need to put up 35 points a game.

You don't address next year's draft of WRs in your list. You have us running with what we have for three years(!), and adding a WR with our #2 in 2003. You have us drafting D in 2004, with Mitchell in your first strategy. I disagree that we have a "bevy of complementary skill players" in place. We have a bunch of untested guys with some amount of promise, and plan on drafting at least four more over the next two years (six if you want to further mortgage the future to pick up McGahee).

I agree that we have adequate depth at RB, but players don't get better if they don't get reps, so Shipp might regress, and who knows what will happen with McGahee (although he looks an awful lot like Jamal Anderson to me...).

To say that my plan to add/augment missing pieces to the D (all three or four of them) contains considerably more risk than trusting seven players (at least five of whom haven't done anything yet in the NFL and we might not be able to acquire), along with drastically changing the direction of the personnel policy and abandoning a head coach who a year ago was the savior of the franchise, is ludicrous.

I'm not saying we hope our players turn into Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, and Rice. I'm saying we stay the course. Totally reversing direction every three years is a great way to keep getting Top 10 picks for a decade. I'd be happy to have a group that compares to McAlister, Lewis, Boulware, and Reed. Or Pleasant, Seymour, Milloy, and Law. Or Kearney, Brooking, Buchanan, Kennedy. We have a core of young talent that only is missing a few pieces to be a dominant unit for a decade. You have a bunch of guys that you like and might be able to be good on an NFL level.

Let McCown sink or swim on the second team for a year. Then you can draft another developmental prospect. If the O-line is so good, and we have a dominant D, then we'll win 10 games 14-10, like the Bucs did for four years.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

vibraslap
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Originally posted by kerouac9
I disagree that we have a "bevy of complementary skill players" in place. We have a bunch of untested guys with some amount of promise


C'mon now. How is that not exactly what we have on defense?
 

Cardinals.Ken

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
On a side note, who's running the show on offense?
Josh McCown?

Raise your hand if you have seen ANYTHING impressive about this guy.

:wave:
 

kerouac9

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
C'mon now. How is that not exactly what we have on defense?

KVB has two seasons under his belt. Raynoch has three. Levar has one. Barrett has two. Starks has 5. Adrian Wilson has 2. Dexter Jackson has 4. Wendell Bryant has 1.

Not counting the offensive line, your starting offense has a combined six years of experience, and a combined 14 starts (if you include Marcel Shipp, who isn't starting on your squad). Of your starting players, your QB, RB, FB, TE, and slot WR aren't even on the team, and one of them hasn't even declared for the draft yet.

You do the math and tell me which unit is more of a known.
 
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