Waiting and seeing

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,612
Reaction score
54,250
Location
SoCal
I know it feels like I’m coming into threads pretty hot on the dark side on many threads, but I’m pretty excited about this season.

Vibes are good, the coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt, and there’s no question the talent has been upgraded over the 2023 roster. While I don’t think they’re as good as the group we entered 2021-2022 with (especially on defense), I do think they have the chance to be better over the next 2-3 years.

Plus, most of them are under contract for that whole period. I’m particularly anxious to see growth from Michael Wilson, BJ Ojulari, and Garrett Williams. If they can become above-average NFL starters this season, we could be a pretty good team this year.
I’m riding shotgun on this stagecoach!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,612
Reaction score
54,250
Location
SoCal
This team is a work in progress which is better than a toilet bowl flush.

I’m intrigued by the Monti/Gannon team.

Just seems like this draft was one which will be talked about as the turning point for the organization.

I agree two to three years down the road we still have to travel…
Honestly, if this draft isn’t one which is talked about as the turning point for the organization monti needs to be fired. You don’t get 7 picks in the top 3 rounds - including #4 - and whiff and have any legs left to stand on imo. Of course it will take 2-3 seasons to know if he was nails building a airplane or building a coffin.
 
OP
OP
kerouac9

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,500
Reaction score
27,785
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Honestly, if this draft isn’t one which is talked about as the turning point for the organization monti needs to be fired. You don’t get 7 picks in the top 3 rounds - including #4 - and whiff and have any legs left to stand on imo. Of course it will take 2-3 seasons to know if he was nails building an airplane or building a coffin.
Yeah this rookie class is super-old. I don’t know how much potential they have when Xavier Worthy is like 11 months younger than Zaven Collins.
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
10,874
Reaction score
23,356
Location
Orlando, FL
Disagreeing without being insulting is a good indicator of a worthwhile comment. If we all believed the same things a board would be pointless. The best boards are the ones where people feel encouraged to offer their opinions without the intimidation of personally negative comments. I’ve certainly rendered my share of wrong opinions through the years. Debate is healthy and can lead to a more in depth understanding of a complex issue. Part of being a fan is the way you see the game. I don’t think we all have to see it the same. Think fun. This is still a game. Enjoy it.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,807
Reaction score
32,975
Location
Orange County, CA
Honestly, if this draft isn’t one which is talked about as the turning point for the organization monti needs to be fired. You don’t get 7 picks in the top 3 rounds - including #4 - and whiff and have any legs left to stand on imo. Of course it will take 2-3 seasons to know if he was nails building a airplane or building a coffin.
The only way that this isn't true is if last year's class becomes really good, like Paris, Ojulari, Williams, and Wilson all becoming really good player.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,375
Reaction score
37,949
Location
UK
Aww, com'on now. You're just trying to pick a flight now. SMH.. :talk:

I'm really not.

What part of that seems like I'm picking a fight? I'm asking his opinion and giving mine, because that is the point of this board.

I think that '21 defense gets way more credit than it deserves. It was easy for them to game plan up 14 in the 2nd quarter.

On paper it wasn't good at all. In fact, at the same point in preseason looking at both on paper I'd take our current defensive roster over that one.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,887
I'm really not.

What part of that seems like I'm picking a fight? I'm asking his opinion and giving mine, because that is the point of this board.

I think that '21 defense gets way more credit than it deserves. It was easy for them to game plan up 14 in the 2nd quarter.

On paper it wasn't good at all. In fact, at the same point in preseason looking at both on paper I'd take our current defensive roster over that one.

I agree.

Other than d-line, edge, linebacker, corner and experience... I don't see how the 21 defense is even in the same ball park.

We've got the same safeties, albeit 3 years older, but that's the only drawback, besides the other 5 or 6 positions.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,887
I know it feels like I’m coming into threads pretty hot on the dark side on many threads, but I’m pretty excited about this season.

Vibes are good, the coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt, and there’s no question the talent has been upgraded over the 2023 roster. While I don’t think they’re as good as the group we entered 2021-2022 with (especially on defense), I do think they have the chance to be better over the next 2-3 years.

Plus, most of them are under contract for that whole period. I’m particularly anxious to see growth from Michael Wilson, BJ Ojulari, and Garrett Williams. If they can become above-average NFL starters this season, we could be a pretty good team this year.

Yeah, I don't want to seem pessimistic, I just don't see this team playing like a team that was a monster through 10 weeks until injuries (and Kingsbury's inability to adapt) dragged them down.

If Murray can stay healthy, I think we've got a real shot at around 9 wins. Which is about 8 wins better than I thought we'd be a year ago.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,544
Reaction score
21,671
I'm really not.

What part of that seems like I'm picking a fight? I'm asking his opinion and giving mine, because that is the point of this board.

I think that '21 defense gets way more credit than it deserves. It was easy for them to game plan up 14 in the 2nd quarter.

On paper it wasn't good at all. In fact, at the same point in preseason looking at both on paper I'd take our current defensive roster over that one.
This post is so hilarious considering the very next season you were saying it was a good roster despite the personnel not changing much.
 

Card'em

All Star
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Posts
558
Reaction score
1,346
Yeah this rookie class is super-old. I don’t know how much potential they have when Xavier Worthy is like 11 months younger than Zaven Collins.

Sure, a couple of our 12 draft choices were older, such as Xavier Thomas, who is 25 and both Christian Jones and Tejhaun Palmer, who are 24, but the rest of our picks were by no means over-aged rookies.

Here's the ages of our 6 picks in the first 3 rounds( remember that most teams only had 7 picks in the whole draft).

MJH - 21
Darius Robinson - 22
Max Melton - 22
Trey Benson - 21
Tip Reiman - 22
Isiah Adams - 23
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,375
Reaction score
37,949
Location
UK
I agree.

Other than d-line, edge, linebacker, corner and experience... I don't see how the 21 defense is even in the same ball park.

We've got the same safeties, albeit 3 years older, but that's the only drawback, besides the other 5 or 6 positions.

How are any of those rooms better than what we have now outside of the dying embers of a decent Edge room?

2nd year Simmons and rookie Wilson started. Byron Murphy was in year 3 and his first playing outside and had less experience than Murphy Bunting. Robert Alford had experience but had missed 2 straight full seasons. There's plenty of experience on the DL with Nichols, Jones and Collier.

I'm not sure how your looking at that '21 defense and thinking "Man that was a good roster". If I could be bothered to look I'm absolutely sure this board was complaining their ass off about it before the season.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,375
Reaction score
37,949
Location
UK
This post is so hilarious considering the very next season you were saying it was a good roster despite the personnel not changing much.

This another one of the things you imagined? It seems so.
 
OP
OP
kerouac9

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,500
Reaction score
27,785
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Sure, a couple of our 12 draft choices were older, such as Xavier Thomas, who is 25 and both Christian Jones and Tejhaun Palmer, who are 24, but the rest of our picks were by no means over-aged rookies.

Here's the ages of our 6 picks in the first 3 rounds( remember that most teams only had 7 picks in the whole draft).

MJH - 21
Darius Robinson - 22
Max Melton - 22
Trey Benson - 21
Tip Reiman - 22
Isiah Adams - 23
Yeah but still
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,770
Reaction score
1,028
Location
A rotten place...
Honestly, if this draft isn’t one which is talked about as the turning point for the organization monti needs to be fired. You don’t get 7 picks in the top 3 rounds - including #4 - and whiff and have any legs left to stand on imo. Of course it will take 2-3 seasons to know if he was nails building a airplane or building a coffin.
Absolutely agree. Monti has the benefit of doubt for now, because the 2023 draft class looked the part last season. But if the most top heavy draft class since 1990 turns out to be a disaster, then there is only one consequence.

With that said. We can discuss where they drafted and if Monti should have stayed in the second to draft a consensus higher rated player than Melton etc., but I'm an IT executive, not a NFL GM, so have to trust Monti and team are better at evaluating than me.

What makes me optimistic is the fit of the players and the plan. This is not SK adding a talented player and throwing them over the fence to a coaching staff that have no idea how to fit that player in. All players drafted were a fit to the scheme and followed the plan to get deeper at all position levels. It's unrealistic to think that all will be hits, but given the fit to the team, there is at least a better change for success. Of the 7 players drafted this year in the first 3 rounds, history tells us that at least two will be busts.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,972
Reaction score
10,887
How are any of those rooms better than what we have now outside of the dying embers of a decent Edge room?

2nd year Simmons and rookie Wilson started. Byron Murphy was in year 3 and his first playing outside and had less experience than Murphy Bunting. Robert Alford had experience but had missed 2 straight full seasons. There's plenty of experience on the DL with Nichols, Jones and Collier.

I'm not sure how your looking at that '21 defense and thinking "Man that was a good roster". If I could be bothered to look I'm absolutely sure this board was complaining their ass off about it before the season.

How are any of those rooms demonstrably worse?

This year's defense (outside of the safeties) is composed of vet guys who have been mediocre and/or platoon players or totally unproven youth.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of our defensive units was a pleasant surprise, I also wouldn't be surprised if any of them were really really bad. Lots of faith are required in the scouting and coaching departments to project us as a respectable defense.
 
Top