TV technology

[BigRedRage]

So, I am at my moms last night and the walking dead marathon is on and she has a brand new 60" LED TV in her living room.

I am watching this thing and it is so clear that I feel like I am on the set of the movie. Everything looks fake as hell, I can see the fake buildings, I can see where the sets end, it looks like I am standing there filming it with my own camera



Has anyone else noticed this? How can I avoid this on ym new purchase? It ruined the show for me. I went in another room on an older HD tv and it looked very real, gritty and awesome. Then came back out in the living room and look at the new TV and again immediately it looks like I am on the set of the movie and everything is fake


am I crazy?

I will say, football and video games would likely be amazing but it seemed terrible for walking dead.

 

[azmike74]

I bought a plasma for that reason. Think it's called the soap opera effect but with some LCD TVs all the cgi looks fake to me also. There must be a setting to correct it but if there is its unknown to me.

 

[BigRedRage]

my LCD is great, I thought maybe this was just an LED thing or maybe just because its 60 inches or maybe the HZ rate. Either way there is something in that TV that would be awesome for some things and ruin some others.

 

[puckhead]

1. Turn off any motion interpolation in the set itself.

2. Calibrate - there are many dvds and now blu-rays out there that can help you. You can even get a pro to do it but you're probably looking at $300 or so for that.

"LED" refers only to the backlighting of the monitor. It is still using LCD display technology. There were a few rear projectors a few years ago that used LED's but they are long gone.

You didn't mention the model or brand of the TV but turning off the motion "enhancing" garbage should really help with the "soap opera effect". (looks like video instead of film)

Calibration will really help get skin tones right and make low light stuff look better.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Yeah, I'd be curious as to the model and movie.

I went with plasma as well to avoid the refresh rate of LCD/LED. It's too large of a screen and resolution to avoid this. I think what you're describing is the screen door effect.

There are some tweaks to the tv that can be done to alleviate this, but it's the nature of the beast. Once OLED becomes affordable both plasma and LED/LCD will be a thing of the past.

 

[BIGTONY]

In my opinion ...Im not a expert..But if the tv is a LED Like you explained...The refresh rate is set at 240 hz ...You just need to readjust it too either 120 hz or even 60hz...Its in your settings under motion I believe...

 

[BigRedRage]

so it sounds like it could be more of a settings issue than a TV issue. I just wanted to make sure I didnt go big dog on an LED and end up with a TV I dont like. If it is the just HZ rate and that can be adjusted, sweet.

like I said, id love it for natgeo and etc or video games but for tyhe walking dead show it looked horrendus (SP)

I dont think the screen door effect is the issue ive been getting, its more like I am on the movie set than it is a bad picture. It didnt feel like a movie, it felt like a behind the scenes directors cut or something. TOO real, TOO clear. HZ explanations make the most sense.

 

[puckhead]

I would agree that what you’re describing isn’t the screen door effect, although that is not good either! These are the type of things that differentiate the low cost sets from the higher priced ones.

Most dramas and movies are shot at a different frame rate than our tv’s operate in so the tv must convert those programs to display the content. The preferred method is to refresh the frame at some multiple of the original frame rate, but this processing is cost prohibitive and one of the things that manufacturers can cheap out on and lower the price point.

So a lot of tv’s just use something called 3/2 pulldown to get to the tv’s native rate and some do it quite well and most people don’t notice so it’s not a huge deal. However, LCD makers really like to add motion interpolation to make things look “sharper” and stand out in the crowd at Best Buy. Essentially, they analyze the content on the fly and “make up” frames that weren’t originally there. The name “soap opera effect” really just refers to the “video” look that you describe well when you say it looks “too real” and “too clear”.

On content that was shot that way, like you said with nature shows and such, that sharpness isn’t really too noticeable or offensive. But, on a moody, darkly lit scene that uses selective focus for emotional effect, this “enhancement” will absolutely kill that look the director was going for.

Keep this in mind when you go buy your next tv and make sure you can disable this stuff when you want and turn it back on if you like it on certain content.

 

[puckhead]

As an aside, since I know you're a gamer, all that extra processing adds up to latency. Not good when you've got some 14 year old kid trying to get a bead on your butt in Call of Duty!

 

[BigRedRage]

I would agree that what you’re describing isn’t the screen door effect, although that is not good either! These are the type of things that differentiate the low cost sets from the higher priced ones.

Most dramas and movies are shot at a different frame rate than our tv’s operate in so the tv must convert those programs to display the content. The preferred method is to refresh the frame at some multiple of the original frame rate, but this processing is cost prohibitive and one of the things that manufacturers can cheap out on and lower the price point.

So a lot of tv’s just use something called 3/2 pulldown to get to the tv’s native rate and some do it quite well and most people don’t notice so it’s not a huge deal. However, LCD makers really like to add motion interpolation to make things look “sharper” and stand out in the crowd at Best Buy. Essentially, they analyze the content on the fly and “make up” frames that weren’t originally there. The name “soap opera effect” really just refers to the “video” look that you describe well when you say it looks “too real” and “too clear”.

On content that was shot that way, like you said with nature shows and such, that sharpness isn’t really too noticeable or offensive. But, on a moody, darkly lit scene that uses selective focus for emotional effect, this “enhancement” will absolutely kill that look the director was going for.

Keep this in mind when you go buy your next tv and make sure you can disable this stuff when you want and turn it back on if you like it on certain content.

Disable what stuff though? Your post is spot on but I am a little lost. I have to be able to disable sharpness? or the HZ? the 3/2 pulldown? Motion interpolation? Which specific feature does this stuff you are talking about?

As an aside, since I know you're a gamer, all that extra processing adds up to latency. Not good when you've got some 14 year old kid trying to get a bead on your butt in Call of Duty!

Not at all and also very important, so the soap opera affect affects frame rates when gaming too? I figured it would be a plus on gaming.

Need more input stephanie!

Thx for info so far.

 

[puckhead]

Every manufacturer names theirs something different. This page lists some of them so you know what to look for in your particular brand or one you’re considering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation

Now that you’ve turned that off, go here:

http://lifehacker.com/5858625/how-t...oost-your-video-quality-in-30-minutes-or-less

It’s a little work to get there and some people will just Google “best video settings for Panasonic model X” and be very happy. YMMV.

The motion “enhancement” may make a video game look more visually pleasing to you, but that would come at a cost of extra processing which, depending on the model, may or may not be noticeable in-game.

I’d love to give you definitive answers to your questions but there are a lot of contributing factors that I can’t easily account for on a message board. You really do have to spend some time “dialing it in” if it is important to you. Taking a step-by-step approach is the best way and you'll become much more familiar with your gear along the way.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Stay out of the service menu, qualified techs only!!

 

[BigRedRage]

The fear of spending 1-2k on something I dont appreciate is gone now, thanks for the info. This nugget was good too.

Soap opera effect[edit]

The "video" look is a byproduct of the perceived increase in framerate due to the interpolation and is commonly referred to as the "soap opera effect", a reference to the distinctive appearance of most broadcast television soap operas, which were typically shot using less expensive 60i video rather than film.[17][clarification needed] Some complain that the effect ruins the theatrical look of cinematic movies.[18] For this reason, almost all manufacturers have built in an option to turn the feature off. Others appreciate motion interpolation as it reduces motion blur produced by camera pans and shaky cameras and thus yields better clarity of such images. The soap opera effect can also be known as "Judder adjustment" or "Judder Removal".[19] This "video look" is created deliberately by the VidFIRE technique to restore archive television programs that only survive as film telerecordings.[20]

this life hack article is sweet too.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

yeah ... puckhead hit it on the head and I'm glad that you had the chance to figure it out

my father in law was complaining about how much he hated HDTV .... I was up there for a day and noticed the soap opera effect, but at the time I didn't know what it was

shortly after I stumbled across it and tried to get him to do what puckhead suggested or google "make/model soap opera effect" to get settings ........ he never did

I asked him to send me the make/model and I'd send him instructions .... he never did

This September I was up there for a longer period of time and just did it for him ...... so much better and he actually uses the TV more

He primarily watches movies on it - most of them older movies - they all looked horrible with the soap opera effect

 

[BigRedRage]

yeah ... puckhead hit it on the head and I'm glad that you had the chance to figure it out

my father in law was complaining about how much he hated HDTV .... I was up there for a day and noticed the soap opera effect, but at the time I didn't know what it was

shortly after I stumbled across it and tried to get him to do what puckhead suggested or google "make/model soap opera effect" to get settings ........ he never did

I asked him to send me the make/model and I'd send him instructions .... he never did

This September I was up there for a longer period of time and just did it for him ...... so much better and he actually uses the TV more

He primarily watches movies on it - most of them older movies - they all looked horrible with the soap opera effect

Damn stubborn generation

 

[puckhead]

...
Need more input stephanie!
...

If you're going to be watching 'Short Circuit', forget everything I said and simply remove the monitors' power plug from the outlet.

 

[BigRedRage]

your mother was a snow blower!

 

[puckhead]

I won't even dignify that with a response, laser lips.

 

[BigRedRage]

Finally measured and I sit 19' from my tv presently

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[puckhead]

Finally measured and I sit 19' from my tv presently

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

What size TV?

 

[BigRedRage]

lol right now I believe it is a 47" 720p vizio = P

Its great for watching tv or football, no issues really. Its when I play video games.

IE: I was playing fable 3 and while doing things you get small text on the top left letting you know of completed quests and different information. It pops up for about 10 seconds and goes away meant to be read quickly while in the midst of playing.

But with my tz size and the text size, I have to focus on the =text to see it because of the distance. I often park halfway in the living room with a dining chair or barstool and play midway away so like 9 feet and its fine.

For now I am looking at a comfy swivel chair to simply sit closer but plan in the near future to get a nice bigger TV mounted on the wall and big enough that I can read print from the 19' distance.

60" seems to be the value TV, 70 and 80 get really expensive.

I am also looking at places that iwll let me return it incase I put it on the wall and decide it is too small/too big w/e and want a good return/warranty policy so no online buying.

Based on this thread and the other thread I no longer have concerns with soap opera effect as it can be turned off. 1080p would be cool but it seems that even if its 720p I may not be able to tell the difference anyway. I plan to take the advise of looking at the other things before I bother looking at resolution.

Main uses for my living room TV:
Gaming and football. We occasionally watch a movie or TV in there but it is rare. If anything I am more apt to watch nature shows and documentaries with the kids in there. I dont game a ton but when I do I want it to look great and the cardinals are only 16 sundays a year but those are the main purposes. When not playing xbox or watching football we usually have on a radio and socialize, work on the house, etc. Most of my actual TV watching happens in my room when I am going to bed.

Based on the three main uses - Gaming, football and nature shows, I assume the HZ will be most important due to lots of fast motion on these 3 items.

Per WIKI RCA recommends 52" at 6-17' Toshiba is similar. Best buy claims 8-16' for a 65" tv. No one seems very uniform.

Even this http://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/tv-viewing-distance.html#axzz2kRgj2800
Shows a minimum 7' maximum 15' for a 60".

This seems crazy to me since I am watching a 47 (I think) and mostly not having any issues at all from 19'.

Using the formula of http://www.ehow.com/how_5315314_right-tv-size-room.html says my minimum should be 50" but the recommendation is 74". If that one is accurate it seems optimal size would be 70 or 80 inches but I also fear that my living room becomes one giant TV at that point.