The Viva El Birdos Podcast – Episode 74: “Birdos After Dark” w/ Kyle Reis

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A name Cardinals fans who have been in or around social media for the last few years knows our guest this week all too well! thecardinalnation.com prospect writer and co-host of “Wednesdays with Walton and Reis”, Kyle Reis! This week, Gabe and I pepper Kyle with questions about the up-and-coming left-handed pitchers in the Cardinals system, JJ Wetherholt’s contract extension, Jordan Walker’s HR Derby win, and plenty of breakdowns on Cardinals 2026 draft picks!


00:23 Introduction and Guest Introduction
02:22 Exciting Developments in Cardinals’ Pitching Prospects
10:26 Injury Updates and Player Development
14:12 JJ Weatherholt’s Impact and Future Extensions
22:14 Jordan Walker’s Home Run Derby Victory and Future Potential
23:29 Evaluating Jordan Walker’s Performance
28:40 Analyzing the 2026 Draft Picks
36:14 Prospect Comparisons and Future Potential
40:29 Cal Randall’s Development as a Pitcher
42:38 Tegan Kuhns: A Blend of Old and New Scouting
46:30 Final Thoughts on Draft Prospects

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Transcript:

Jake Wood (00:23)
Welcome into the Viva El Birdos Podcast. My name is Jake wood, and I am your host. I am joined by fellow writer Gabe Simonds here at Viva El Birdos.


If you enjoy this episode, please be sure to like and subscribe to our channel. We are available on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all of your favorite audio streaming platforms. Today’s special guest is a man who needs no introduction to Cardinals fans, but because I’m me, we’re gonna give him one anyway. Former writer for Birds on Black and MLB.com, host of the lauded Prospects After Dark show, current contributor to the CardinalNation.com, and co-host of Wednesdays with Walton and Reis, welcome back to the show. My bald brother, Kyle Reis!

Kyle Reis (01:02)
Hi fellas, thanks for having me. I’m excited to talk it over. You guys are gonna get the whole dog experience today, because my little Minnie Doxon is two years old today and she is on fire. As long as we’ve been talking for the lead-up to this.

She has been trying to nip at me and grab me. And so she’s gonna be a part of the show whether we like it or not.

Jake Wood (01:37)
We are a pro Auggy show here, so Aggie, not Augie, Aggie show here, so but anyway, to make Kyle feel more at home, you know, my name is Jake Wood, and this is Brian’s partner, Kyle Reis. Welcome, Kyle.

Kyle Reis (01:41)
Hey guys.

Jake Wood (01:54)
An exciting last couple of weeks for the St. Louis Cardinals, JJ Wetherholt signing a long-term extension, Jordan Walker winning the home run derby. The Cardinals took a lot of exciting young talent in the amateur draft, and all things that we’re gonna get into today with Kyle. But before we get into those topics, because Kyle is left-handed, and by old definition means he’s clearly untrustworthy, yesterday was a very exciting day for all left-handers, whenever Quinn Matthews, Cooper Hjerpe, and Brandon Clarke all displayed various reasons why Cardinals fans should be excited about what’s coming up through the system. You know, Kyle, are we inching closer to seeing some of these higher-upside pitching prospects at the big league level? I know that, you know, the Cardinals shifted Quinn Matthews to start yesterday to potentially be in line to start sometime in the next week or so because the Cardinals are now, you know, twenty-three straight days or something like that without an off day. You know, what w what are we about to see, or are we about to see some exciting young pitching come to the big league level?

Kyle Reis (02:56)
I suspect that in the very near future, we will be seeing Quinn. Not only because of the realignment, but you know, one way or the other, after the trade deadline, there’s gonna be a gap in the rotation. And I would assume because I think we can all kind of agree that Dustin May is probably going to get traded. But whether that happens or not, it is, you know, as we’re recording this, it’s the 19th of July. Within the next month, there’s going to be an opportunity for somebody, one of these kids, to make an impact. And outside of Hunter Dobbins, because Hunter Dobbins really is, you know, the elephant in the room when it comes to prospect promotions to the major leagues and the pitching staff. But I do think we’ll see Quinn. And then what happens as a backfilling move to that’ll be really fascinating to watch too. You know, I am a Cooper Hjerpe enthusiast. So when I get to watch Cooper Hjerpe any day, I’m really fired up about it. And my interest in Cooper, even though he throws in the low 90s, he’s just filthy, and he throws from a weird slot, and he’s fun to watch. So when that’s happening at the same time that Quinn Matthews, who has now refined his mechanics, is back to pitching with tempo, which he hasn’t done since 2024. So he’s back to pitching with tempo. He’s throwing all of his stuff is moving better than it did all of last year, and even at the beginning of this year, and he’s gotten back to his velocity, not the high-end velocity that we saw in 2024, but that mid-90s, peaking at 96, flashing close to 97 velocity. When that’s going on, and he’s landing that changeup, and he’s not walking people, and he’s bullying righties with a slider, which is what happened last night, while Cooper Hjerpe bullying everybody with his slider and changeup, except for throwing one bad 91 mile an hour fastball right over the middle of the plate that a righty took to the opposite field for a home run. And then all of this was the built-up to, wait, Brandon Clarke is, by the way, throwing 103 miles an hour and a sinker profile that no lefty has ever displayed in the history of tracking sinkers in baseball.

It it’s hard not to just soak in that excitement. You know, all three of these pitchers have their flaws. Along with all of the pitchers in the organization, there is not one near-flawless pitcher. But when that’s just the microcosm of what’s going on in the system on any given night, it’s a really exciting thing. You know, I can’t think of a night all year where there hasn’t been at least one or two pitchers that I’ve made a point to like zone in on. And it’s been years since the Cardinals have had that. Yeah, I, you might say that they probably never had it the way that they’ve had it right now. So it’s just an exciting state for the Cardinals’ pitching staff to be in on the farm.

Gabe (05:29)
You think, and this is obviously like up to the Cardinals, even though they’re gonna keep working as a starter, that they’ll try to put Cooper Hjerpe in the bullpen to end this year because he can only throw so many innings anyway, and the Cardinals could certainly use a lefty.

Kyle Reis (05:43)
I can’t wait to see how they work with Cooper Hjerpe. You, the thing that I was told is that the situation with Cooper and his future is very fluid. Basically, the success that he has or how he’s flashing what he’s flashing is going to end up determining what role he has. You know, I I would say so far, since coming off of the Tommy John, working through his rehab stint, that’s been a lot of ups and downs where you could definitely see him maintaining that starter role, like getting into the starter role, but it that whole since he was drafted, the projection of it all where he he people have projected him to be a reliever, it definitely seems more and more likely. I do think, and you know, with only including with only when rosters expand in September to only two more people, it kind of makes it a little bit, a little bit more muddled. But I would not be surprised if we get to September. And since he’s already on the 40-man, he’s one of the guys who gets the call or the cap tip. If he continues to pitch this way, you know, he’s up to 60 pitches right now, and we have about a month before we get, you know, a month and a half before we get to September. And I’m anxious to see what his pitch count looks like when we get into September, because my hope is that he’s on the 80- 90 plan that all the other starters are on in the organization. But I would not be surprised if they’re still not letting him get to 80 pitches. And at that point, I think that that is the ultimate tell that he’s going to be a reliever or given a chance to relieve at the major league level, probably without a chance to ever be a starter like Kyle Leahy has.

Jake Wood (07:12)
Kyle, you know, with Cooper Hjerpe specifically, and you know my concerns or my fears with him and them potentially pushing him a little bit too hard, obviously coming off of the arm injury, and he’s never even experienced, you know, life at the Triple-A level using the big league ball, and obviously we know that that in itself is a transition. You know, is it is it g would it be asking too much of him to be that, you know, potential reliever in September? Do you think it’d be like smarter long term to kind of just put the brakes on him a little in terms of like this year, because obviously he would, he could very well just impact the team, the major league level next season, but you know, is your opinion that they should be, you know, all systems go forward and try to push him that quickly, or would it be smarter long term for his, you know, development to to kind of pump the brakes and allow him to at least go through some struggles at Triple A and feel that and and get used to pitching with that big league baseball?

Kyle Reis (08:16)
Jake, I honestly think both things are right here. I think the latter, you know, in particular, playing it slow with him would make sense, especially coming off of Tommy John, because we know that command is one of those things, takes a little extra time off Tommy John. But at the same time, I don’t think the Cardinals have done, and it’s a different development staff, really, but I don’t think the Cardinals have done Cooper Hjerpe any favors by being extra careful with him over the years. I don’t think that s suits his personality. And quite frankly, again, I believe that he’s a durable young man. I do believe that he’ll he’ll he he’s capable of starting. But quite frankly, like there’s only so many bullets in that arm. I think that’s a fair thing to say. And I do think if you want to reap the benefits of that first-round draft pick, it would behoove you to get him to the majors as soon as possible. So far, I guess you’re right in thinking that you should take it slow with him. And I would imagine that that’s what the Cardinals will do, and that’s probably the smartest thing to do. But if you’re asking me what I would do, I I would I would have him answer Gabe’s question; I would have him ready to participate in September out of the Cardinals’ bullpen just to see what it looks like. Again, you’re not if it’s a matter of building up innings for 2027; you’re not gonna get that. That’s already out the window. So what you’re trying to find out is what kind of role can he supplement for the Cardinals in 2027. At least that’s what I would be doing. I don’t know if that’s what they’re going to be doing. And in that case, yeah, I think that it would behoove them to push him a little harder this year. And honestly, if I know it, I know enough about his personality, and maybe you do need to throttle it back because of his personality, that he wants it and he’s ready for it. And that’s what will probably push him to the next step of his development.

Gabe (09:53)
And I assume he’s spending August in Memphis or something like that, right? He’s not just gonna skip straight to the majors.

Kyle Reis (09:59)
Yeah, I would think that that would be the case. You know, ideally, the way that my mind works, and it might not go this way, but you see Quinn Matthews make a major league debut whenever that happens, and that Cooper would backfill that role. But you know, it could end up being Braden Davis. It’s not like they don’t have a couple of other arms at Springfield that could backfill, but that’s how I would handle it if these guys continue on their current trajectories.

Jake Wood (10:26)
So, like, at double-A, we’ve seen some other guys, like you mentioned, that could backfill. We’ve seen a couple of other guys who’ve already made the transition from Double-A to Triple-A, like a Jurrangelo Cintje and Mason Molina. Obviously, there are names that are starting to filter upwards that are exciting for Cardinals fans. Another lefty who’s working his way back, who should have been in Triple-A for the majority of the season, is Ixan Henderson. What’s the latest with Ixan that you’ve been hearing, and how soon are we from getting a potential return from him as well?

Kyle Reis (10:57)
Yeah, you know, it took him a little bit longer to get through his, I guess, rehab after his arm kerfuffle. So he is he’s a little slower. Of course, he’s he is pitching in the FCL, starting a rehab. I would imagine that we will see him at Palm Beach very soon, very similar to how we saw Brandon Clarke. And, you know, my understanding is that they were extra careful with him. You know, again, pull the reins back on him a little bit to get him to a point where they wouldn’t be worried about how he would respond once he got back on a mound in a competitive environment. So I would suspect, and I asked Brian about this on the last podcast with Wednesdays and Walton, Wednesdays with Walton, is I wonder how close to like the Pete Hansen rehab he’ll be, where you know he made a couple he’s in the FCL- makes a couple Palm Beach appearances as a starter, and then is up to Memphis. I think that they’re gonna be a little slower with his rehab because of how long he’s been out. The arm issue was a little bit more serious. I and I I don’t remember what it was. My brain is malted over. So I don’t remember exactly what it was, but it was a little more serious. So they’re gonna be a little bit more purposeful in how they bring him along. But the last I heard is that he was healthy and ready to go, much like Brandon Clarke was the other night. But not like that, because he doesn’t throw 102 miles an hour, he throws like 93, and not quite as as sen sensational as Mr. Clarke does.

Gabe (12:21)
Can I ask about a player absolutely nobody’s asking about right now, which is which is Thomas Saggese? And I’m wondering how many games in Memphis you’ve seen. How does he look? His stats aren’t that great, but he’s walking more, striking out less, and his xwOBA is like way better than what his actual wOBA is, but he’s got a little BABIP, and his power’s not quite there. So are you seeing like improved approach and everything from him in Memphis?

Kyle Reis (12:25)
Mm.

You know earlier this week I kind of I threw something out there and it’s it’s been really really tough to watch victor scott and thomas Saggese and Nolan Gorman at Triple-A because it’s just like even when even when things go well for them they don’t they don’t have any luck and that’s and really that’s just like a lead in with Saggese where he’s the one of that group where you can actually see that like he’s taking a different at bat it really is you he’s he’s trying as hard as possible to be as purposeful within is that bat as possible. You can see it. It’s not that the veil is not over it. So, Gabe, I think you’re on to it. I think with him, I’m very much trying to make a concerted effort to build this deficiency up into something that can work for me and make it a part of how I take it at bat. And I think that that’s why you’ve seen the home run scale back. I think he’s up there trying to work counts, trying to identify pitches better, and to make it part of who he is instead of what we heard a year ago, where it was. I’m trying to get better, and he did get better, and then he regressed to the mean. I think he’s trying to make that a part of the batter, the hitter he is. So he’s the one. And again, not to go, not to go too far off. You know, to your we’ll stick with Thomas. To your point, like I I do think that there’s real development going on there still with him that could turn him into that utility player similar to what we’ve seen out of Jose Fermin at the major league level. But I do wanna, just since we’re talking about it and since I brought him up.

It is bad for Nolan Gorman, and it is bad for Victor Scott, and it does not seem like there’s any development going on. It just seems like they’re churning; they’re just churning in mud.

Jake Wood (14:22)
Hmm. Well, you know, from failed former prospects in essence to one that is taking off like a rocket, the Cardinals appear to have struck gold with JJ Weatherholt and paid for his weight’s worth in it as well, signing JJ to an eight-year extension for $112 million. How symbolic has this season been for JJ and the Cardinals as a whole? You know, you remember back to Opening day, JJ took the first at bat of this, you know, new era of Cardinals baseball, and now four months later he’s signing the first you know, extension with the team of what Bill DeWitt the Third or, you know, “Triple Sticks,” as you refer to him as, the you know, the first of more to come. Can you speak to not only the symbolism in making JJ the first to be extended, but also, you know, who might be next in line in that conversation to be extended?

Kyle Reis (15:02)
Mm. Yeah, you know, one of the things that I kind of point to is, you know, I was born and raised in St. Louis City. Up until a year ago, I had lived there my whole life. And in a lot of ways, JJ Weatherhurt Holt kind of personifies that blue-collar St. Louis City, like the way he plays baseball, his personality, it kind of it’s kind of perfectly personifies what goes on in St. Louis and how St. Louisans kind of view themselves. You know, it’s the hockey player mentality in a lot of ways. You know, he’s gonna go out there, and he’s gonna take his thumps. He’s gonna give his best effort every night. You’re never gonna see him, you know, dog a ball down to first, or you know, he’s never gonna take a playoff. And he’s gonna do it as best as he can. And to see him immediately hit the scene and be the best version of himself, and, you know, what you see and what we don’t see, of course- stuff behind the scenes also lends itself to that type of personality. So it’s not just for me; it’s not just for me about how it aligns with the Cardinals and their rebuild and the first at-bat and the first contract extension of this new era of Cardinal baseball. I think it’s also a cap tip to the city itself that this is what we’re trying to build. This is what we’re looking at. It’s not just about first-round talent. It’s about what you do when you get your opportunity and how you run with it and how you work with it, the teammate you can be, the leader you are, both, you know, in every capacity. So I think it’s symbolic in that way. It’s not just, it’s not just about the first extension of the new era. It’s a cap tip to Cardinal fans in general and the city itself, but Cardinal fans in general, that this is the player, this is the attitude, this is the work ethic that we are going to build around. And also I I do think in some capacity it’s a cap tip to the fans that hey, look, we heard you.

We know that you love JJ Weatherholt, and we’re we’re going to buy out a couple of years of his free agency and pay him along the way. And I really do think that that that’s that kind of speaks to it. You know, as far as who’s next, I don’t know. I’m after the home run derby, you know, I was like, hey, let’s just give Jordan Walker a billion dollars. Well, what are we doing? Like 10 years, 25 years, however much he wants, just give it to him. But you know, I really don’t know what’s to come next. I know that there’s been some conversation about

Triple sticks words about who might be next, or it might be the first of many. I I for me, that was more just rhetoric than anything else, just announcing that they’re willing to be open to this stuff, then they’re leaning towards something. But yeah, I, you know, I look at that roster, and for me, even though Ivan Herrera has struggled, I’d like to see what an Ivan Herrera extension would look like. You know, I like a lot of these players, and I’m really open and excited to see what direction they go in with them. I mean, what do you guys think? Would you go, Jordan Walker? What would be your next route?

Gabe (18:05)
Well, I’m gonna plant my flag on Masyn Winn. That’s my I wanna sign into an extension ’cause I think his bat will get better at some point. I, despite evidence not necessarily showing it so far. But I just like to see some classic great defenders in the past at shortstop who got to play every game, and then eventually Dansby Swanson, Ozzie Smith, Omar Vizquel, all those guys their bats at some point later in their career, were closer to whatever their peak was. And I think that’s the case with Masyn, and I would love to extend him before that happens, which is likely if it’s going to happen, while he’s still in his team control years. So I’m for Masyn Winn personally. And Jordan Walker, but Masyn Winn seems like he’s more affordable.

Jake Wood (18:52)
Well, I guess if I have a flag to plant, I’m gonna go a different direction. I’m going over to first baseman, Big Burley, Alec Burleson. You know, you talk about a guy who is consistent, professional at bat every single time, gives you impact, gives you stability. You know, you look at it like not only with JJ Weatherholdt, I think the Cardinals really like to lean into certainty whenever they’re extending players, whenever they’re handing out big contracts. And I think that you can easily look at Alec Burleson as that 20 to 25 home run guy, probably hits in the 260 to 280 range annually. Like, you know what you’re gonna get. We look we saw Tyler Soderstrom get an extension this past offseason, and you know, when you look at the numbers, comparatively speaking, they’re very similar in their production output. So you can look at maybe a five-by-seventy-five type of extension for an Alec Burleson that will put him right around like age thirty-two, I believe, whenever that would be completed, and you buy out the rest of his arbitration plus a couple of those free agent years. I think it makes all the sense in the world, you know, you have the guy that is, like, along with Jordan Walker, you know, leading the charge offensively. I think that Alec Burleson has, you know, what was it last year, Oli Marmol said after last season that no other player above Alec Burleson took advantage of the runway, the opportunity that he was given. And so I think that rewarding that and, you know, not only J.J. Wetherholt but also Alec Burleson, Jordan Walker, these guys who have taken meaningful steps forward in their career and you know, paying those guys as, like also you know, a message to the younger guys, like, hey this is the this is the carrot at the end of the stick. You take your steps forward, you achieve those positive steps forward, we will reward you with, you know, financial commitment and long-term commitment to you. So I think that, you know, there’s some symbolism there would be some symbolism in rewarding an Alec Burleson as well.

Kyle Reis (20:48)
Yeah. And I think that’s an interesting one too. I you know, it’s funny because both of those guys, the one thing about Cardinal fans being so smart is sometimes we, and this I’m speaking very much out of like out of my own heart here. This is something that I do. I try to overthink the process, right? So, like people might say, Hey, don’t extend Alec Burleson because you’re kind of still kind of outside your championship window. You could get a haul for him, and like, wouldn’t that benefit your team more?

And for me, I think one of the things I’m trying to backpedal on a little bit more is to just be like, yeah, that’s great. But this is a player that I like to watch, who’s fun to watch, who’s contributing. Like, isn’t that better than in some cases, not in every case, but with Burleson in particular, and with Masyn Winn, because all of a sudden Masyn Winn is getting a lot of blowback from fans about his offensive production. And I for frankly, I don’t think it’s fair, because we’ve seen him put up some good offensive numbers. But with both of those guys, I think that I think that as a fan, instead of trying to be smart, instead of trying to be the GM or the president of baseball operations, I think it behoves us to kind of be like, hey, you know what? I want them to sign these guys. I want them to keep these guys around. And I want them to build around every one of these players that we’ve mentioned: Jordan Walker, Alec Burleson, J.J. Wetherholt, Ivan Herrera, Masyn Winn. Like, that is the core. I mean, that and that core also fit in your championship window. It could be the catalyst for the explosion that ends up being a championship run. Without sacking you too financially too much into the future. So I I I’m I like all of these guys, and I do hope that especially with Burleson, that that’s how they’re looking at it as opposed to is this an asset that we can just turn into some other assets?

Gabe (22:30)
Basically, don’t be the Rays.

Jake Wood (22:32)
That yeah.

Kyle Reis (22:32)
The Cardinals don’t have to be the Rays here, right? Like they can be if they choose. Like you know, Lars Nootbaar, if they decide to do that, I would understand why they would move Lars Nootbaar. You know, Dustin May, of course, like we talked, like be smart with the assets. I just don’t think Alec Burleson is there yet, where you have to feel like he’s outside of your championship window.

Jake Wood (22:51)
Fully agree. Now, to Jordan Walker, you know, winning the home run derby and being the first Cardinal to do so was an incredible feat, you know, and one that was done with a lot of drama and excitement, overcoming eleven home runs in the final round to beat hometown hero Kyle Schwarber in Philadelphia. You know, this is the Jordan Walker we were always promised, but the journey to where he is now was certainly not linear, right? What is your level of confidence, Kyle, that you know his performance has staying power and that his ability to continue evolving his profile can produce a potential perennial MVP candidate?

Kyle Reis (23:29)
You know, everybody I know who is smarter than me and associated with major league teams tells me that this is for real. It’s not, it’s not an aberration, it’s not something he’s gonna fall back or regress to the mean. He’s going to go through stints where he is not particularly good, but that’s because every major league baseball player goes through that. You know, when you have conversations maybe associated with the Cardinals, they’ll tell you that they believe, through the coaching staff, that he has kind of reached a point where he knows how to reset. And that’s the key there. So I will say, like, the fan in me that has watched the Cardinals for the last 10 years and watched talent peak and then regress quickly, like I’m not quite there where I feel like this is going to stick, but everybody I know tells me that it is. And I trust them more than I trust myself. And I know that if this continues, it’ll be the most fun we’ve had watching one singular player in years.

Gabe (24:23)
Yeah, and that it I with Jordan Walker’s home run derby; literally my attitude was, Jordan, “I’m sorry, I was not familiar with your game” because I had no expectations about him in the home run derby whatsoever. I was like, he’s gonna ’cause he’s a like a line drive hitter more, but somehow he made it a like I’m gonna hit the line drives that just keep going until they so I was like I d I didn’t think that would play in the home run derby. It was like the Pujols problem when he was in the Home Run Derby. He was just too much of a line-drive hitter. He couldn’t like

Jake Wood (24:31)
Yeah.

Kyle Reis (24:44)
Yeah.

Gabe (24:53)
But hey, you know what? I’m all aboard that, and also I think as bad as he looks on some of his at-bats, his strikeout rate actually isn’t that high anymore. I don’t know if like ’cause he looks silly on some plate appearances, but it’s like twenty-five percent, which that’ll play for sure. I’m a lot more optimistic about Jordan Walker since his K rate went from like thirty-one percent to twenty-five percent ’cause that was the problem, like Tyler O’Neill. He’s just inconsistent ’cause he wasn’t making contact enough. But if Walker can

Kyle Reis (25:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gabe (25:22)
Minimize the strikeouts as much as possible, then I think we might, yeah, we might have a star in our hands.

Kyle Reis (25:28)
Yeah. You’re right, you’re right. That twenty-five does seem like the magic number for him. You know, twenty-five-twenty-six somewhere around there. And again, that constant adjusting, adjusting to that breaking pitch. You know, because he like you said, sometimes he’s still flailing out at that slider out of the zone. That’s something he’s always going to struggle with. I think we can all agree on that at this point. It’s just a matter of how he adjusts to that struggle. And that’s been the major key this year: still hunting pitches, adjusting better to the fastball, right? Because we saw them start to blow fastballs by him last year, as he was crippled by that outside breaking pitch. He’s adjusted to that. He’s rotating on that better. And he’s also fighting off that pitch that got him all of 2023, 24, and 25. So yeah, look, I think you’re right. I think the strikeout percentage is really the telltale. And we’re also seeing him continue to evolve as a hitter, getting more power, lowering his strikeout rate, and also continuing to drive the ball all over the field. So I’m excited about it. I do think it has staying power. And I know to your point, Gabe.

Watching those line drive missiles and the home run derby from round one until the end with barely any wasted motion. it wasn’t like he was trying to hit it. He was just swinging the bat, was some of the most enjoyable, lighthearted baseball moments I’ve had as a Cardinal fan in years, I think.

Gabe (26:44)
Yeah.

Jake Wood (26:44)
Well, they don’t ask you how; they ask you how many, right? And that was his ultimate goal: to hit as many as possible. It didn’t matter how far it went, as long as the number was greater than eleven. And kinda to your point, Gabe, about the strikeout rate, yes, Jordan Walker’s gonna have some moments where he swings and misses, and like that, that’s gonna happen. But I wonder if, as fans in general, at what point are we also able to kind of contextualize this conversation and also say that, you know what? That pitcher executed a good pitch and simply got Jordan Walker out. How often are we able are we capable of just being able to, like, you know, to use Kyle’s wording, to tip our just tip your cap to the pitcher, because the opposition is a major leaguer too, and they execute on their pitches, and sometimes they make the best hitters look, you know. They say the best counter to good offense is good pitching. So, like it the good pitching beats good hitting always. So, you know, sometimes it’s just gonna happen. But

Kyle Reis (27:36)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Wood (27:41)
To be able to lean on and rely on the fact that you know, Jordan Walker, Oli talks about this on the Gashouse Gang, is like they have he he has- the cues to be able to tether himself back to. So if he starts getting outside of, you know, what he is supposed to do mechanically, they can go back and look at what he was doing to give him success, to allow him to, as Kyle said, reset. So I think that has kind of been the major sticking point for him this season. And it’s just been really refreshing to watch him be able to like Kyle said reset and then also show the ability to make adjustments and and improve the pitch selection to be able to do damage on against pitch certain pitches that frankly last year or two years ago he he wasn’t gonna come anywhere close to touching or making contact with

You know, from the current to the future, you know the Cardinals drafted Trevor Condon, Tegan Kuhns, and Rocco Maniscalco with their first three picks. What did you make of their draft, Kyle? It seems that across third-party outlets, they felt that the Cardinals came away with one or maybe if not the best hauls in the twenty twenty-six cycle.

Kyle Reis (28:53)
Yeah, it’s just a group of exciting players, you know. I I we were talking about it with Kareem a little bit on Wednesdays with Walton and Reis, but you know, we when you do all this draft prep, when you watch all these highlights and you watch all of you know all of collegiate baseball throughout the year, you you tune in here and there, and there’s so many games and you’re trying to stay up to date and you’re watching draft boards and you’re watching draft rankings and you’re trying to learn about players, you end up picking players and you’re like, Man, I love this guy, man, I love this guy, man, I love this guy. And you know, you become attached to players, and you like players, and then the Cardinals never draft any of those players. And you’re, and you know, it’s not frustrating because that’s not the right way of putting it, but you know, in your heart, you’re like, man, I know that these players are good. And then you watch them perform well on other teams. And sure, the Cardinals’ prospects also perform well, but you have this allegiance to these players because you’ve been following them and watching them and liking them. Well, this year was, and this, of course, influences my bias. This year, they happened to draft guys that I loved, like those that I personally had invested a lot of time and energy into and had highlighted as some of the better prospects in the draft. So to watch this all unfold, the Cardinals drafting players that I personally would have drafted, and I personally would have highlighted, and to watch it was just a really exciting thing to see like, to see the Cardinals. There’s an evolution here in the Cardinals’ draft philosophy. And it aligns with the player development side. And they communicate so well together that you can see their hands shaking each other in the draft. And to watch the Cardinals kind of modernize their draft decisions based on the modernization of player development and what player development is asking for. And that to coincide with what we as fans are starting to really zone in on as an interesting and carrying tools for talent at an amateur level. And to watch it all come together in the 2026 draft.

Because that’s exactly what happened. It was a perfect marriage of all of these things that you want as a as an analyst to come together. That’s exactly what happened. And it was a beautiful, beautiful thing. You know, so anyway, that’s just to say that especially that day one in the beginning of day two, it could not have gone any better for the Cardinals, in my opinion, from both a quality and a quantity standpoint, for the draft as possible. It was it was exciting prospect after exciting prospect with very, very little waste or question mark or interest in there. even the ones that were question marks, as you’ve come to learn more and more about you’re like, I get what they’re doing here. It makes sense for keys to success at the major league level or the minor league level and in modern baseball.

Gabe (31:37)
So you since you were a big fan and I read some, I’m mostly positive, but some differing stuff. I wanna ask you to counter a couple of the negatives of two of the players that were highly acclaimed picks. Trevor Condon, I saw this is probably a very minor opinion, but compared to the Pete Kozma pick, a little bit, I would like you to react to that because Pete Kozma was of high floor mostly defense guy whose bat was a question mark. That’s, I know you’re scrunching your eyes there, Jake. But I get the comparison even though I don’t think it’s right. And then with Rocco, I did see some talk where he just did not make enough contact at all in his last year. And what would your counters to that be with people who were against those picks or didn’t think they were as good?

Kyle Reis (32:23)
Yeah, I will say Trevor Condon’s an interesting one to me. You know, I know Keith Law had him as like his 41st best draft prospect. And I know nearly every other outlet had him in, like, the, we’ll just say, the 10 to 18 range. And for me, Trevor Condon is somewhere in between those two groups. One thing that I really like is both raw and in-game power. And I think when you’re drafting a first-round draft pick, you have to have, of course, the bat-to-ball skills, bat speed, but you have to have in-game power there to feel really comfortable with your first-round pick, especially if it’s the top 15 pick. And what are people going to do with Trevor Condon, the people who doubt Trevor Condon, and I am one of those people who kind of doubt Trevor Condon a little bit. I I think I think he’s going to be good. I think he has the bat speed and the strength to get to power. But I think most of those people will say, hey, look, this is a kid who could not hit home runs until his senior year in high school, and he only hit nine in Georgia. Again, it was against really good competition. And he was still the Gatorade Player of the Year in Georgia. So that’s worth mentioning as well. But the two things that people are going to say, they’re going to say he he he’s not hitting for power, and he’s not going to be able to hit for power because of the way his hands work within his mechanics. He starts high, and he drops him, and he kind of swings the bat sometimes like it’s a tennis racket on a backhand with two hands. And I think that that’s what we’ve seen out of prospects who swing the bat that way: it’s hard for them to get to real power as they climb the minor league ladder. So when you draft someone like that, you hope that because he has, you know, elite prep-level bat-to-ball skills, his bat-to-ball skills will carry him until he finally gets to power, until they can adjust his mechanics and get to power. But as we found with Ryan Mitchell, who’s also kind of can he get to power? He has really good bat-to-ball skills. How does this all click? Will it all click as you try to implement one without sacrificing the other? So I think that would be like that, my counter to that would be

This kid’s gonna hit one way or the other. I don’t know if the power will come or not, but it’s not ever gonna dip below, like, he’s not ever gonna be like a 220, 300, you know, two twenty batting average, three hundred on base percentage. He makes smarter swing decisions than that. He has better bat-to-ball skills than that. Even though he does have, you know, everybody talks about his motor and his defensive skills and his speed and all that, and his work ethic, all that stuff will play into it. Not to say Pete Kozma didn’t have that, but I think that that would be the complaint.

Why would you say that you would question that? And also, I would say as a counter to that, like the kid’s gonna hit no matter what happens. And that’s something you can’t guarantee with a lot of these picks, especially on the prep level in the first round. And then with Rocco, I don’t know how to counter the Rocco thing, other than to say, watching him is a treat. And you know, I’ve talked to people who scout the prep ranks, and you know, what I will tell people is when you’re talking about somebody who just who reclassified from the 2027 class to the 2026 class, who’s the youngest kid drafted in any draft in the history of drafts? There’s rawness there that you just have to take into account. And you don’t know how the rawness is gonna polish. What you hope is that they can work hard and that they take to the teachings of the organization that drafts him. And by every indication, that’s what Rocco Maniscalco is going to be able to do. But when you talk to these guys who have watched him play, they would have told you that, you know, if he wouldn’t have reclassified, he’d probably be in line to be a top-three pick in the 2027 draft. That he might have been the first overall pick in the 2027 draft. And all it would have taken was just a little adjusting. While his swing can get a little long, it’s not so long, and it’s not so unorthodox for a 17-year-old to overcome it in one season. And I think the Cardinals will allow him; working with the Cardinals will allow him to cut that distance pretty, pretty markedly. So you know, again, I can’t, I cannot say to those people who question Rocco Menescalso. Maniscalco and his bat, how will it perform at the Major League level? I I don’t have the the the I guess the raw data or anything to prove. What I can tell you is that there is real raw power in there. He is a true athlete who’s gonna stick it short and who moves around exceedingly well and has explosive levers and explosive motions. And I believe because of how dedicated he is to the sport, how he’s driven to be as good as he can be, that within a year or two, we’ll start to see those question marks.

That are his batted ball profile and his contact rates start to level out as a 19-year-old at Palm Beach. And he’s taking that step to be a top 100 prospect. But it is a gamble. You know, they’re gonna give him between three point, my guess is between three point seven five and four point one million dollars for a bonus to sign as a 50th overall pick. And it is very much a gamble that will take longer to pay off than.

Mm, probably any other draft pick that the Cardinals made in twenty twenty-six.

Jake Wood (37:13)
You know, you show me a person who, you know, doubts a seventeen-year-old’s ability to become something of any type of high-quality or caliber, and I’ll show you a fool. Anybody who’s sitting here telling you they know exactly what a seventeen-year-old is ever gonna become is foolish. And so I just that’s why I squinted my eyes- ’cause it’s like, I don’t know how you can make any definitive determination about a raw seventeen like, as Kyle said, one of the youngest prep players ever drafted. There is so much runway in front of him. And on top of that, like, I had Nate Rasmussen on last week. You know, he does really great work over at Overslot. If you guys haven’t checked that episode out, go check that out because Nate’s fantastic, always great with the information. he compared Maniscalco to Billy Carlson, who was drafted last year by the White Sox. And so, if you- I know they’re a little bit more raw in their hitting ability than what Billy Carlson’s capable of or has already shown capabilities of. But the defensive ability in Acumen, he feels they’re on a similar plane. And to say that you might have potentially gotten a guy at fifty that was a top ten pick the year before would be really great value. You know, same thing with Trevor Condon. He, Comp, and I know Kyle how you are about comps, but I’m just throwing this out there. He compared Trevor Condon to a Max Clark-type player. He didn’t see PCA; he doesn’t really get the Lenny Dykstra of it all, but he saw a lot of Max Clark in Trevor Condon. So like, again, a top five pick you’re getting at thirteen. There’s really good value there if they are comparable players, if they wind up on a similar trajectory. All of that being said, nothing is for sure, nothing is ever like for sure predictive, but to know that the Cardinals targeted players with the same types of potential skill sets as those types of top ten picks, I don’t know how you can be anything but just excited and and enthusiastic about what the future could potentially hold for the Cardinals and this draft class that they brought in. Kyle, I did want to jump to one other player the Cardinals drafted really quickly, one that’s super fascinating to me. Fifth-round pick Cal Randall out of UCLA. This dude has the best fastball in the entire draft. But the Cardinals got him in the fifth round, and again it’s a big, almost 80-grade fastball. I I would be I would be comfortable putting an 80 on that on the fastball. But he has no secondaries whatsoever to speak of. He kind of plays with a changeup. It’s a usable pitch. They’re just gonna sit the fastball and do the best they can with it.

I talked a little bit about this with Nate, and I’ve also been listening to Baseball America and MLB Pipeline, and they kind of firmly believe that this is a reliever-only profile. I still kind of wonder if this is the guy, kind of like Tanner Franklin last year, that they try to at least see what it looks like as a starter and to move forward with it from there. See if they can develop a s a a quality secondary to go along with that big fastball.

You know, what do you see from Cal Randall, and do you think that there is starter potential in there?

Kyle Reis (40:29)
Yeah, 100% I do. And I don’t think the Cardinals would have drafted him with their fifth-round pick if they didn’t think that they would at least give it a runway. You know, because of how di dynamic that fastball is, he’s always going to get a chance to be in the bullpen really quickly. That’s that’s it. But one way or the other, to be a bullpen piece at the major league level, he’s going to need something else. The Cardinals are going to develop him as a starter. That is a fact.

It doesn’t mean that when he makes his debut in the organization, it won’t be out of the bullpen or something like that. But the plan is to develop him as a starter. Now, I’ve seen a lot of really smart people that I agree with that say what he needs to do is do the Lance Lynn focus on fastballs, right? Do a sinker, 4-seam, cutter, and start there and see where it goes from there. And I think that that is a great way to start. Personally, I would like to see him develop the changeup as little as possible. I think that it’s not a bad thing to have in his pocket against lefties to continue to work on.

But to me, like you shelf that pitch as much as you feel comfortable doing. Really, his secondary offering that I’m most interested in is this little cut slider that he has. That’s really just a cutter, but sometimes he throws it with a little extra juice, and it moves a little bit more east to west. I think to me, I think that’s where you start. I don’t know if you start with the sinker right away, but you go fastball, cutter, and you continue to augment him, teach him how to throw. How to grip it and rip it so that it’s a traditional gyro slider and can also be a cutter. I think you start there and you s you backpedal from there. You build from there, you know, without knowing how comfortable he is gripping baseballs, you know, or how his arms are going to maintain throwing opposite or throwing these different pitches. I can’t really say for sure. But for me, if I’m building him and I’m building him slow and I’m trying to take it easy and get him in a starter’s repertoire, I’m starting with how do I augment the pitch that he already throws, which is like a cuttery slider and how do I make that work for me and then build on from there because I think that’s the best way to do it. But yeah, look, I think that I do think 100% that, and I know 100% that they’re going to start with the intent of building them up as a starter because that’s there’s more value there. And you know what, if it doesn’t click, then hopefully you’ve developed a secondary pitch that’s as good or at least as manageable as that primary elite fastball so that he can have success at the major league level.

Gabe (42:38)
Can you share some thoughts on Tegan Kuhns, who, despite being drafted from Tennessee, is I I from what I understand, not the same as Liam Doyle and Tanner Franklin. Like they’re a different type of prospect.

Kyle Reis (42:50)
Yeah, yeah. So if you were to marry old Cardinal Scouting with new Cardinal Scouting, you would have Tegan Kuhns. He’s a strike thrower who throws from that low launch angle that the card the that the Cardinals have highlighted. He has a good like a good fastball that actually I I think I think most scouts that have actually watched him will tell you that the fastball might actually be the question mark here, even though it it plays well and it has traits that you that suggest that it would it it has you know it would be like a 60 grade fastball or something like that. But really, what I’m encouraged by is that all the scouts say that his slider is his best secondary offering. And I don’t think you can argue that. But what he did as he went down, as the season progressed for Tennessee, was he started throwing his curveball more. And that made his slider work better. And his curveball was getting better and better and better and better and better. And sure, sometimes he hangs it, and it gets banged. Sometimes that just happens. But I’ve watched what I’ve watched is I’ve watched these two off-speed pitches develop into actionable, developmental pitches that could help carry him to the major leagues. And he commands it all pretty well. The fastball, what gets in string with the fastball, even though it measures well and it has the potential to be a plus pitch, is that he uses it kind of weird. And I’m anxious to see how the Cardinals supplement this, how they change it. But a lot of times when you watch him in a start, he uses this fastball, which plays really well up in the zone, low in the zone. He kind of peppers it low in the zone, low in the zone, low in zone low in the zone. And then as the game works.

Like works on, he goes higher and higher and higher and higher in the zone, helping it play up as he fatigues out a little bit. So I cannot wait to see how that augments. If the Cardinals just say, hey, look, you gotta use this thing up in the zone from the start of the game until the end, and if that helps it play up, but it is still susceptible to a little bit of damage, more so than fastballs that measure similarly from similar angles. But yeah, again, Tegan Kuhns is fun because, you know, in some ways, this is the Michael Wacha strike-throwing profile with the stuff of the modern ask of the development and scouting side. So this is this is this is not Tanner Franklin. He’s gonna get to the majors quicker than that. He has better command than that. This is not Liam Doyle, where you’re questioning some of the off-speed offerings, but you know his fastball is gonna carry him. He’s some amalgamation of old and new. And that gets me excited as somebody who really appreciates both the old technique and the new technique.

Gabe (45:16)
Is he targeted for Peoria, would you say? Or even Springfield, maybe?

Kyle Reis (45:20)
So I would suspect that when we see him in twenty twenty seven that he will be in Peoria. That’s that would be my guess, is that will be his first landing spot.

Jake Wood (45:28)
To kind of go back to the Cal Randall of it all real quick, you talked about a cutter and a slider, you know, commonly referred to in baseball as a “slutter.” I don’t think there is a more Kyle Reis affectionately titled type of pitch. I also just want to get to Kyle. Thank you so much for being here today. We really appreciate your time. Again, for anybody out there who doesn’t already, like if they’ve been living under a rock, where can they go and find you? Where can they follow your stuff?

Let it let us know that real quick.

Kyle Reis (46:00)
Yeah, Jake, you know how I do this. I prefer that you don’t follow me. What I would ask you to do is to respond or support me. Don’t support me. I’m not really interested. But, like Brian Walton, does an amazing job over at the Cardinal Nation. And of course, I’m on the podcast with him on Wednesdays with Walton and Reis. Support that because Brian is a true professional who does amazing work. And then just again, one last little cap tip to our friends over at Birds on the Farm, Kareem and Aiden, Redbird Farmhand, like those guys do amazing work, follow them.

And don’t waste your time on me. Jake, are you trying to end this episode? Can I ask?

Jake Wood (46:35)
I I we’re at forty-five minutes, so I’m, yeah. We’ve had a lot of listeners ask us to keep it under forty five minutes, so

Kyle Reis (46:45)
No problem. Can I just say one thing before we sign off? As we talk about the draft, I just want to say that my favorite prospect, my favorite of all the draft picks, was Dee Kennedy, the fourth-rounder out of K-State. He is my favorite. He’s a great dude, a fun dude. Of course, much has been made about the LASIK surgery of it all. But I think that I think there’s a chance that when we look back at this draft, he’s the first one to make the majors. And I just think he’s a really special talent. And I don’t know how it’s gonna work because, you know, he has contact issues, even though he makes really great swing decisions. But he’s run into some pop, and I just love the way this infielder plays the game. And I just wanted to give a cap tip to my favorite draft prospect in this draft, Dee Kennedy.

Jake Wood (47:24)
And because Kyle deflected there, I’m gonna tell you where you can all go follow him at @kyler416 on Twitter. He thought he was gonna get away with it, but I didn’t allow him to. You can also go listen to all of his great work on Wednesdays with Walton and Reis at the CardinalNation.com. You can find them on YouTube, Spotify, and all your listening platforms. For Gabe Simonds, my name is Jake Wood. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Viva El Birdos podcast. Don’t forget to rate, review, and hit that subscribe button so you’re notified every Monday at 6 a.m. whenever our newest episodes are released. We’ll talk to you all next week and bring you more great Cardinals content. Have a great day, St. Louis, and let’s go Cards.

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