The 2024 NBA playoffs thread

Hoop Head

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I think Denver won the series tonight. Losing Conley for this game put Minnesota on the ropes and now having lost 3 in a row, it'll be tough to see them come back and win 2 in a row again.
 

Cheesebeef

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He's already better than hakeem imo
It’s so close. As incredible as Joker is on offense (and he is a true Unicorn), Hakeem’s defense and impact on the game on that end was arguably equal or close to Joker’s strength. And Hakeem was a great offensive weapon too.
 

BirdGangThing

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It’s so close. As incredible as Joker is on offense (and he is a true Unicorn), Hakeem’s defense and impact on the game on that end was arguably equal or close to Joker’s strength. And Hakeem was a great offensive weapon too.
idk bro - totally get the defensive impact but f*** man - joker is an orchestrator
 

GatorAZ

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Let’s say Jokic wins back to back titles this year. Where does that put him in the All-Time list? Equal with Hakeem? Maybe a little better?

I think Jokic and Hakeem are equal in caliber but for different reasons. Shaq had the better prime but he wasn’t the complete player the other two are/were. Duncan wasn’t a wow player but he was the backbone of a dynasty. They’re all jumbled together.
 

clyde2tw

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Jokic has become unsolvable.
Our plan of using Nurk to fight him a bit seems among the better ideas. It's too bad that we don't have the rest lined up yet, around our big-3. When it counted, Denver had big-3 with Gordon in it, while MIN only one in Ant. That makes big difference not compensated with pure youth, athletism, defense
 

Russ Smith

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Joker is incredible but man Aaron Gordon has been amazing in this series. They talked about it last night one of the changes Denver made after 2 losses was having Gordon bring the ball upcourt so that they could rest Murray and make it easier on him, it's worked to perfection because Gordon is good enough to do it.

Absolutely perfect fit for him playing off Joker for all those easy dunks but this series is showing the rest of his game.

If he'd pulled off that reverse dunk over Rudy last night would have been epic
 

SeattleCardinal

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Let’s say Jokic wins back to back titles this year. Where does that put him in the All-Time list? Equal with Hakeem? Maybe a little better?
Hard to say, but that Jokic performance on Tuesday was truly one for the ages, to use a trite expression. It was incredible, especially against the four-time Defensive Player of the Year.
 

ajcardfan

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It’s so close. As incredible as Joker is on offense (and he is a true Unicorn), Hakeem’s defense and impact on the game on that end was arguably equal or close to Joker’s strength. And Hakeem was a great offensive weapon too.
The only career average stat where Jokic is ahead of Hakeem is assists. He will wind up passing him on points per game, probably next season. If the Nuggets win the title this year he will tie Hakeem for Finals MVP.

But defense and rebounds... Not close. Hakeem won defensive player of the year twice and was All-Defense 9 times. He was also rebounding champ twice. Jokic has 0 of those things and probably always will because the style of play is so different.

So compete player? Olajuwan is better. IMHO.

 

Proximo

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He's already better than hakeem imo
Yeah, I have to agree.

Hakeem was amazing for 3 or 4 years, but Jokic has already surpassed him.

I mean other than Jordan I have never seen a player so able to score when he puts his mind to it.
 

ajcardfan

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Yeah, I have to agree.

Hakeem was amazing for 3 or 4 years, but Jokic has already surpassed him.

I mean other than Jordan I have never seen a player so able to score when he puts his mind to it.
Sure. If you only look at offense you would say Jokic is better than the dream. Defense and rebounding? Jokic is never going to be as good as Akeem. But, these kinds of debates are kind of silly because the NBA now is a much different game than the 80s and 90s.
 

Cheesebeef

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Sure. If you only look at offense you would say Jokic is better than the dream. Defense and rebounding? Jokic is never going to be as good as Akeem. But, these kinds of debates are kind of silly because the NBA now is a much different game than the 80s and 90s.
You keep mentioning rebounding but Jokic for his career has averaged 10.7 rebounds per game while Hakeem averaged 11.1 per. That’s really not that big of a difference.

Now, Hakeem is one of the best defenders ever, but Jokic is one of the best offensive players ever and still rebounds like a load down there.

So, I guess that’s the question… if you have one of the best defensive centers ever versus one of the best offensive players of all time, and they both rebound around the same rate, what ultimately lifts one above the other?
 

Proximo

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You keep mentioning rebounding but Jokic for his career has averaged 10.7 rebounds per game while Hakeem averaged 11.1 per. That’s really not that big of a difference.

Now, Hakeem is one of the best defenders ever, but Jokic is one of the best offensive players ever and still rebounds like a load down there.

So, I guess that’s the question… if you have one of the best defensive centers ever versus one of the best offensive players of all time, and they both rebound around the same rate, what ultimately lifts one above the other?
Offense always beats defense.

If you doubt that look at how Jokic is working Gobert.
 

Cheesebeef

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Offense always beats defense.

If you doubt that look at how Jokic is working Gobert.
Except Hakeem was also GREAT on offense. Whereas Jokic is merely… okay on defense? Hakeem could dominate on both ends of the floor.

The other impressive thing about both is they consistently raised their games in the playoffs.
 

ajcardfan

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Except Hakeem was also GREAT on offense. Whereas Jokic is merely… okay on defense? Hakeem could dominate on both ends of the floor.

The other impressive thing about both is they consistently raised their games in the playoffs.
They are both great players.

Like I said earlier, Akeem is still a little ahead in ppg, although it's extremely unlikely that will hold up over the career. So, yeah, his offense is being underrated here.

I am probably overstating how much of a better rebounder Akeem was. But, on the other hand, look at who he had to match up with compared to Jokic's competition. The center position isn't nearly as deep as it used to be. Akeem led the league in rebounding twice, which Jokic has yet to do. And, probably won't because he plays on the outside so much. But his three point game is WAY better than Akeem. Not that Akeem never made them, but that was not his forte.
 

Cheesebeef

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They are both great players.

Like I said earlier, Akeem is still a little ahead in ppg, although it's extremely unlikely that will hold up over the career. So, yeah, his offense is being underrated here.

I am probably overstating how much of a better rebounder Akeem was. But, on the other hand, look at who he had to match up with compared to Jokic's competition. The center position isn't nearly as deep as it used to be. Akeem led the league in rebounding twice, which Jokic has yet to do. And, probably won't because he plays on the outside so much. But his three point game is WAY better than Akeem. Not that Akeem never made them, but that was not his forte.
I agree Hakeem’s offense is being unrated but unbelievably, Jokic’s might be also. He’s not just incredible on offense for a center. I think he’s legitimately one of the single best offensive players of all time, by any position. He can play inside, outside and somehow, is the best passer in the league… and not just for Centers, but the entire league.

Just a fun comparison between two all-time greats.
 

Phrazbit

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Jokic is like… Shaq meets Nash. He not only dominates his matchup but he makes everyone around him better.

Of the bigs in my life I am not sure who I’d take over him. He’s right up there with Shaq Akeem and Duncan, who all dominated in totally different styles.
 

Hoop Head

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They're pushing that Luka is injured narrative hard before tip off. Everyone is dinged up now. Luka is no more hurt than anyone else playing big minutes. Maybe if he were in better shape he wouldn't have some of those issues though?
 
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