Superstar?

[JCSunsfan]

There is a thread on the RealGM GB about the Suns being an average team, built for the regular season but not the playoffs. The weird arguments are being made like--they haven't had the adversity that other teams have had this season with injuries etc.

But the one argument that seems to be interesting is that the Suns cannot win a championship because they do not have any superstars. So here are the questions.

1. Is CP3 a superstar? They seem to believe that he WAS as superstar but because of age no longer can claim that status.
2. Is Devin Booker a superstar? To me, he absolutely is. He can score at will and at every level, he is totally capable of carrying a team, no one has really effectively shut him down, he is one of the best crunch time players in the game--maybe the best right now, and he has developed not only a good defensive game--he is a very good defender. He is not a volume shooter, he is very efficient. He has led a team to the finals. There are other players who are considered superstars who have not done that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns have multiple stars so it's a matter of spreading it out. Stars by any other name are still stars.

Examples are Devin Booker, Chris Paul, Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges.

 

[Chaplin]

There is a thread on the RealGM GB about the Suns being an average team, built for the regular season but not the playoffs. The weird arguments are being made like--they haven't had the adversity that other teams have had this season with injuries etc.

But the one argument that seems to be interesting is that the Suns cannot win a championship because they do not have any superstars. So here are the questions.

1. Is CP3 a superstar? They seem to believe that he WAS as superstar but because of age no longer can claim that status.
2. Is Devin Booker a superstar? To me, he absolutely is. He can score at will and at every level, he is totally capable of carrying a team, no one has really effectively shut him down, he is one of the best crunch time players in the game--maybe the best right now, and he has developed not only a good defensive game--he is a very good defender. He is not a volume shooter, he is very efficient. He has led a team to the finals. There are other players who are considered superstars who have not done that.

1. Because of age? That's it? He was under MVP consideration until the All-Star break.
2. Absolutely he is a superstar. He's the clear-cut best SG in the game. Top 5 on offense and #1 on defense. That's a superstar.

The unfortunate thing here is that you are taking this from the General Board on RealGM, probably the worst source of "hot takes" on the entire internet.

 

[elindholm]

This argument always boils down to how "superstar" is defined, and ends there.

The Suns had a 2-0 lead in last year's Finals, and are a better team this year. But the only proof that they "can" win a championship will be when they do.

 

[Chaplin]

Basketball is still a team sport. Take away the top 2 players on ANY team in the league, any one of them, and what do you have? The Clippers. Take away Book and CP3 from our team and we'd still be a top 5 team in the western conference, and possibly the best team in the conference. DA is probably the best #3 in the NBA at the moment. He'd get some competition from Jrue Holiday, but that's it.

Take away Durant and Kyrie from the Nets, Embiid and Harden from the Sixers, Steph and Draymond from the Warriors, Ja and whoever from the Grizz, and we are still a better team even without CP3 and Book. How is that a blueprint to win only in the regular season?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This is hardly a conversation even worth having. What are the things you want from a team to be successful in the playoffs? I would say scoring in a multitude of ways, being good in the clutch and being good on defense. The Suns are clearly at the top of the league in all 3 of those categories.

 

[JCSunsfan]

People declare themselves the experts, and therefore the definers of terms. The definition of any word is determined by common usage. So here is my case for Devin Booker being a superstar.

Espn has declared him a superstar.
SI has declared him a superstar.
Bleacherreport has declared him a superstar.
Clutchpoints has declared him a superstar.
NBA.com refers to him as a superstar.
Practically every other publication does as well.
good grief, even the Richmond Free Press and Architectural Digest refer to him as a superstar.

The exceptions now are the people who want to make the case that he is not in order to go against the prevailing opinion. People like Nick Wright.

The numbers are there, the prevailing definition fits. The only way he is not a superstar is if you have your own private definition of the term.

 

[Finito]

There is a thread on the RealGM GB about the Suns being an average team, built for the regular season but not the playoffs. The weird arguments are being made like--they haven't had the adversity that other teams have had this season with injuries etc.

But the one argument that seems to be interesting is that the Suns cannot win a championship because they do not have any superstars. So here are the questions.

1. Is CP3 a superstar? They seem to believe that he WAS as superstar but because of age no longer can claim that status.
2. Is Devin Booker a superstar? To me, he absolutely is. He can score at will and at every level, he is totally capable of carrying a team, no one has really effectively shut him down, he is one of the best crunch time players in the game--maybe the best right now, and he has developed not only a good defensive game--he is a very good defender. He is not a volume shooter, he is very efficient. He has led a team to the finals. There are other players who are considered superstars who have not done that.

Haters gonna hate. They hate us cause they ain’t us.

Built for the regular season, but went to the finals last year. Uh ok

Oh course Paul is a superstar and if you are still trying to hate on Devin Booker then your not a real fan of basketball

Book is a super star. Top ten in PPG, ranked #1 in defense at his position, about as good as it gets in the clutch I mean what more do people want

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Superstars are on the All NBA Team and / or they win one of the big awards.

So Booker and Paul are both superstars. Bridges will be if he wins DPOY

What people can't wrap their head around is that a team has multiple superstars and they all share the ball. It's completely foreign to the modern NBA.

 

[95pro]

Superstars are on the All NBA Team and / or they win one of the big awards.

So Booker and Paul are both superstars. Bridges will be if he wins DPOY

What people can't wrap their head around is that a team has multiple superstars and they all share the ball. It's completely foreign to the modern NBA.

At least from what we can see our superstars have their egos in check.

 

[Proximo]

There is a thread on the RealGM GB about the Suns being an average team, built for the regular season but not the playoffs. The weird arguments are being made like--they haven't had the adversity that other teams have had this season with injuries etc.

But the one argument that seems to be interesting is that the Suns cannot win a championship because they do not have any superstars. So here are the questions.

1. Is CP3 a superstar? They seem to believe that he WAS as superstar but because of age no longer can claim that status.
2. Is Devin Booker a superstar? To me, he absolutely is. He can score at will and at every level, he is totally capable of carrying a team, no one has really effectively shut him down, he is one of the best crunch time players in the game--maybe the best right now, and he has developed not only a good defensive game--he is a very good defender. He is not a volume shooter, he is very efficient. He has led a team to the finals. There are other players who are considered superstars who have not done that.

No, I do not think either qualify as superstars. Both top 20 players, but a superstar is at least a top 10 player in my book - and that is if there are 10 exceptional players.

Right now only superstars in my book are:
Giannis
Steph
Jokic
Durant
Embid
Luka

Lebron is real close, but I don't think I can call him one because he no longer is much more than a jump shooter - and not a great one at that. Basically he is kind of an empty stats guy now.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Pointless debate... Defining "superstar" is always challenging, especially with regard to players who have never won a championship.
The reality is that guys like CP3 and Book really don't care if the general public views them as superstars or not... They know they need to win a championship and that is there singular focus. If they succeed, I can guarantee nobody would be questioning their Superstar label. But, until they win one, the public will always debate this... which is stupid IMHO.

 

[Ronin]

No, I do not think either qualify as superstars. Both top 20 players, but a superstar is at least a top 10 player in my book - and that is if there are 10 exceptional players.

Right now only superstars in my book are:
Giannis
Steph
Jokic
Durant
Embid
Luka

Lebron is real close, but I don't think I can call him one because he no longer is much more than a jump shooter - and not a great one at that. Basically he is kind of an empty stats guy now.

No Tatum?

 

[JCSunsfan]

No, I do not think either qualify as superstars. Both top 20 players, but a superstar is at least a top 10 player in my book - and that is if there are 10 exceptional players.

Right now only superstars in my book are:
Giannis
Steph
Jokic
Durant
Embid
Luka

Lebron is real close, but I don't think I can call him one because he no longer is much more than a jump shooter - and not a great one at that. Basically he is kind of an empty stats guy now.

Consensus definition, not a private definition. BTW. I consider Luka overrated. His defense is limited, and he hogs the ball. I think I would rather have Booker. I think. Maybe.

 

[Proximo]

No Tatum?

No. I would put Ja Morant ahead of Tatum.

 

[Proximo]

Consensus definition, not a private definition. BTW. I consider Luka overrated. His defense is limited, and he hogs the ball. I think I would rather have Booker. I think. Maybe.

I understand what you mean, in that I think Luka is not much of a team player - but talent wise he is clearly a better player than Booker. He can literally get a good shot every time he wants.

He reminds me very much of Harden circa two years ago. But he's a lot younger with that level of performance.

 

[Chaplin]

No, I do not think either qualify as superstars. Both top 20 players, but a superstar is at least a top 10 player in my book - and that is if there are 10 exceptional players.

Right now only superstars in my book are:
Giannis
Steph
Jokic
Durant
Embid
Luka

Lebron is real close, but I don't think I can call him one because he no longer is much more than a jump shooter - and not a great one at that. Basically he is kind of an empty stats guy now.

Huh? A superstar is a top 10 player but you then say there are only 6? How does Booker not be included in that group?

 

[Proximo]

Huh? A superstar is a top 10 player but you then say there are only 6? How does Booker not be included in that group?

I said up to 10 players, right now I don't think there are 10 that qualify.

To me a superstar is capable of putting a team on their back and willing them to a win, and they are fantastic at creating their own good shots.

I don't think Booker qualifies, because he can be taken out of games by double teams. That doesn't really work on the other players in my top 6.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

I understand what you mean, in that I think Luka is not much of a team player - but talent wise he is clearly a better player than Booker. He can literally get a good shot every time he wants.

He reminds me very much of Harden circa two years ago. But he's a lot younger with that level of performance.

I wouldn’t agree with this necessarily. Luka is fantastic but he shoots a lot of tough step back threes. I wouldn’t call them “good shots”. I think he’s obviously a better playmaker than Book but Book is a better defender at this stage. But one is a PG and one is a 2 guard. Very different players. Plus, Book has a better supporting cast around him so his counting stats might never be as high when it comes to assists or rebounds.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I understand what you mean, in that I think Luka is not much of a team player - but talent wise he is clearly a better player than Booker. He can literally get a good shot every time he wants.

He reminds me very much of Harden circa two years ago. But he's a lot younger with that level of performance.

This is an odd evaluation. Talent doesn't make a superstar, winning production does. If a player has talent and produces at the expense of his team, he is no superstar. Enter Carmelo Anthony. Producing wins is the only definition that matters when considering superstars.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I said up to 10 players, right now I don't think there are 10 that qualify.

To me a superstar is capable of putting a team on their back and willing them to a win, and they are fantastic at creating their own good shots.

I don't think Booker qualifies, because he can be taken out of games by double teams. That doesn't really work on the other players in my top 6.

Who are you watching then? Book does this as well as almost any player in the league outside of Giannis, Durant, Embiid, and Steph when he is playing well.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Just looking over the list of the best players in the NBA, I gotta admit, I haven't been giving Booker enough credit. I think he's firmly in the top 10 overall conversation at least.

I'm just so impressed with his D. I thought he'd be an average defender at best, but he's actually producing positive value on that end.

As far as superstar, I think that label should be reserved for players that can go to any team at any time and instantly turn them into a contender. I don't think Book is there yet, but he could get there.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just looking over the list of the best players in the NBA, I gotta admit, I haven't been giving Booker enough credit. I think he's firmly in the top 10 overall conversation at least.

I'm just so impressed with his D. I thought he'd be an average defender at best, but he's actually producing positive value on that end.

As far as superstar, I think that label should be reserved for players that can go to any team at any time and instantly turn them into a contender. I don't think Book is there yet, but he could get there.

I'm not sure there is any one player that can do that anymore.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I'm not sure there is any one player that can do that anymore.

You might be right.

 

[Mainstreet]

You might be right.

Yeah, I was trying to think of one. It's hard to get better than Kevin Durant. Also I should add Giannis.