Suns In Talks To Get Rudy Gay

[slinslin]

Instead of trading picks for someone like Gay we should be calling teams like Charlotte to see if they would want to dump a bad contract for a center like Gortat which they need and compensate us with their pick.

Gortat 2yrs/15 and Memphis pick for Tyrus Thomas 3yrs/24 and Charlottes pick

Maybe throw in Markieff Morris to sweeten it for Charlotte.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Instead of trading picks for someone like Gay we should be calling teams like Charlotte to see if they would want to dump a bad contract for a center like Gortat which they need and compensate us with their pick.

Gortat 2yrs/15 and Memphis pick for Tyrus Thomas 3yrs/24 and Charlottes pick

Maybe throw in Markieff Morris to sweeten it for Charlotte.

I like the general idea, but I would be concerned about having too many picks in the same draft. Too many rookies, too many contracts expiring at the same time. It seems to me it would be better to build a team of 20-26 year olds than all 20 year olds.

I am not opposed to trading Gortat, especially if we believe we won't be able to keep him when he is a FA. We are not likely doing much before then so we could trade him while his value is high.

Just not all picks, look for some promising younger players.

 

[slinslin]

I like the general idea, but I would be concerned about having too many picks in the same draft. Too many rookies, too many contracts expiring at the same time. It seems to me it would be better to build a team of 20-26 year olds than all 20 year olds.

I am not opposed to trading Gortat, especially if we believe we won't be able to keep him when he is a FA. We are not likely doing much before then so we could trade him while his value is high.

Just not all picks, look for some promising younger players.

You can build a team of 26 year olds when you have found the 20 year olds worth building around.

The Suns need to be bad for a couple years at least if they want to get back to the top.

Say you could pull off a deal like that I'd be fine with Dudley, Johnson, Brown and our 2nd round pick for Gay and Wroten.

We would go into next season with Dragic, Gay, Scola, Thomas, Marshall, Wroten, some capspace and 3 lottery picks, assuming the Lakers miss the playoffs. That team should be more exciting but still be in the important Andrew Wiggins sweepstakes.

 

[hcsilla]

Instead of trading picks for someone like Gay we should be calling teams like Charlotte to see if they would want to dump a bad contract for a center like Gortat which they need and compensate us with their pick.

Gortat 2yrs/15 and Memphis pick for Tyrus Thomas 3yrs/24 and Charlottes pick

Maybe throw in Markieff Morris to sweeten it for Charlotte.

The Bobcats wouldn't give future assets for Gortat because of the same reason the Suns wouldn't do the same for Gay.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The Bobcats wouldn't give future assets for Gortat because of the same reason the Suns wouldn't do the same for Gay.

Gortat is making half of the money than Gay is over the next couple seasons. Not saying Charlotte would give up assets for Gortat, but it would seem to make more sense than us giving up assets for Gay.

 

[hcsilla]

Yes, trading for Gay would be a worse move than trading for Gortat, but the latter doesn't make too much sense for one of the worst teams either.

 

[SunsTzu]

Moot point since I'm pretty sure the Bulls own the Bobcats protected pick. Unless you're suggesting this as a deal that would be done on draft night.

 

[slinslin]

The bobcats could trade it to us under the condition of it being in the lottery like the lakers did despite owing a protected pick to cleveland.

I dont really see the similarity to the Gay trade... The Bobcats dump a bad contract on us and we give them three assets in gortat, morris and a mid first.

In the Gay trade we give up assets and pick up the bad deal.

 

[SunsTzu]

The bobcats could trade it to us under the condition of it being in the lottery like the lakers did despite owing a protected pick to cleveland.

No they couldn't because there is no guarantee they will not owe the Bulls the pick next year or that they will receive the Min pick this or next year, thus leaving them without a 1st round pick in consecutive years.

The only way the deal could work is if the included one or more of the following, Suns own 2013 pick, Lakers 2013 pick, Suns own 2014 pick or if the deal was done on draft night once the Bobcats made the selection.

Edit: Also the Lakers did not owe a pick to the Cavs. They gave the Cavs the right to swap picks, that's an important distinction.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hopefully this trade dies because there is no way we should be giving up picks. At least if this team is bad for a couple seasons you have a chance at picking up a stud in the draft. No guarantees but at least a chance. It doesn't appear signing a big time free agent is possible. So that leaves the draft.

If the Suns keeping doing these rent a player, mid-season deals it ensures the Suns residency in mediocrity.

 

[HooverDam]

OK so I was initially against trying to aquire Gay, but I am home alone tonight, bored, watching NBA and got to thinking of some trades.

NOTE: I'M NOT EVEN CONVINCED MYSELF THESE ARE GOOD IDEAS NECESSARILY JUST FUN TO THINK ABOUT

TRADE 1:
Suns Trade:

Louis Scola*
Shannon Brown
Markieff Morris
Kendall Marshall
and maybe
the Grizzlies pick back that they owe us

Suns receive:
Rudy Gay
Tony Wroten

*I think they have to wait until some date before they can trade him because of how he was acquired, is that right?

TRADE 2:

Suns trade:
Channing Frye
Michael Beasley
Wesley Johnson
A late 1st


Suns recieve:
Amar'e Stoudemire
Iman Shumpert
Chris Copeland


I know some of you will flip out and complain about Stoudemires deal and his knees, and indeed it is a bad deal. But this year is basically spent already, and then its only 2 more years. Thats not so bad. Gays contract expires at the same time.

Amare would likely still be pretty limited the remainder of this year, and of course this totally new team would take time to gel, so its not as if the Suns would be screwing up their own lottery pick too bad this year. Plus maybe LA misses the playoffs.

The Knicks are apparently desperate to get rid of Amare's deal, so the Suns may be able to take advantage and get back some quality depth pieces like Shump and Copeland. And as much as we all complain about Beasleys contract, its really not that bad or that long, especially for the big spending Knicks.

New Roster:

C. Gortat
PF Amare
SF Gay
SG Dudley
PG Dragic

Bench:
6. Iman Shumpert PG/SG
7. Jermaine O'Neal C/PF
8. PJ Tucker F/G
9. Chris Copeland F
10. Sebastin Telfair PG

Deep bench:

11. Tony Wroten PG
12. Diante Garrett PG
13. Luke Zeller C


I think that team is at least more interesting than the current Suns. You've screwed the cap space, but who were you going to spend it on anyhow? Hopefully the Suns do a good job with the likely 2 lottery picks (ours and LAs) to help fill out that rather thin bench for next year.

Its certainly not a title contender, but I'm looking at this from Sarvers POV which is he wants a team thats 1. entertaining and 2. likely to make the playoffs.

Maybe that keeps the Suns well enough into the 4-8 range in the West, while whomever the lottery picks are develop.

Just a thought....

 

[SirStefan32]

OK so I was initially against trying to aquire Gay, but I am home alone tonight, bored, watching NBA and got to thinking of some trades.

NOTE: I'M NOT EVEN CONVINCED MYSELF THESE ARE GOOD IDEAS NECESSARILY JUST FUN TO THINK ABOUT

TRADE 1:
Suns Trade:

Louis Scola*
Shannon Brown
Markieff Morris
Kendall Marshall
and maybe
the Grizzlies pick back that they owe us

Suns receive:
Rudy Gay
Tony Wroten

*I think they have to wait until some date before they can trade him because of how he was acquired, is that right?

TRADE 2:

Suns trade:
Channing Frye
Michael Beasley
Wesley Johnson
A late 1st


Suns recieve:
Amar'e Stoudemire
Iman Shumpert
Chris Copeland


I know some of you will flip out and complain about Stoudemires deal and his knees, and indeed it is a bad deal. But this year is basically spent already, and then its only 2 more years. Thats not so bad. Gays contract expires at the same time.

Amare would likely still be pretty limited the remainder of this year, and of course this totally new team would take time to gel, so its not as if the Suns would be screwing up their own lottery pick too bad this year. Plus maybe LA misses the playoffs.

The Knicks are apparently desperate to get rid of Amare's deal, so the Suns may be able to take advantage and get back some quality depth pieces like Shump and Copeland. And as much as we all complain about Beasleys contract, its really not that bad or that long, especially for the big spending Knicks.

New Roster:

C. Gortat
PF Amare
SF Gay
SG Dudley
PG Dragic

Bench:
6. Iman Shumpert PG/SG
7. Jermaine O'Neal C/PF
8. PJ Tucker F/G
9. Chris Copeland F
10. Sebastin Telfair PG

Deep bench:

11. Tony Wroten PG
12. Diante Garrett PG
13. Luke Zeller C


I think that team is at least more interesting than the current Suns. You've screwed the cap space, but who were you going to spend it on anyhow? Hopefully the Suns do a good job with the likely 2 lottery picks (ours and LAs) to help fill out that rather thin bench for next year.

Its certainly not a title contender, but I'm looking at this from Sarvers POV which is he wants a team thats 1. entertaining and 2. likely to make the playoffs.

Maybe that keeps the Suns well enough into the 4-8 range in the West, while whomever the lottery picks are develop.

Just a thought....

Oh hell no! That team is good enough to make playoffs and get swept in the first round. No thanks. I've had enough of that crap. I'll take two crappy seasons and accumulate some young talent.

 

[Phrazbit]

Oh hell no! That team is good enough to make playoffs and get swept in the first round. No thanks. I've had enough of that crap. I'll take two crappy seasons and accumulate some young talent.

I dont think its even that good. If you're lucky you might be able to get about 60 games per year and 15-5 out of Amare at this point in his career... all while having to put up with his horrible defense. And I think those numbers are being kind. Given the status of his knees and that all he can do at a decent level now is shoot mid range jumpers, IMO Amare is a bench player and will likely miss significant time in each remaining season.

That team is in a nightmare of a cap situation and will probably max out at about 40 wins (if they stay somewhat healthy)... which isnt good enough to make the playoffs. Its basically the worst thing we could do IMO.

 

[hcsilla]

OK so I was initially against trying to aquire Gay, but I am home alone tonight, bored, watching NBA and got to thinking of some trades.

NOTE: I'M NOT EVEN CONVINCED MYSELF THESE ARE GOOD IDEAS NECESSARILY JUST FUN TO THINK ABOUT

No, it's not fun especially if you are a Suns fan.

 

[HooverDam]

Oh hell no! That team is good enough to make playoffs and get swept in the first round.

Which in a weird way is what I think Sarver wants. I was trying to think from a Sarver POV. Obviously, he wants a title contender, but if he cant have that, he wants a playoff team.

I do think that team is a pretty sure fire lock for the playoffs, especially once you add a piece or two next year in FA and the draft. You'd need some more backup Bigs as insurance for Amare.

I agree Id rather out and out tank for 2 years, but we don't see any signs of that happening. Hopefully at the break the Suns will trade Gortat & Dudley to contenders (theyre both useful pieces) and we'll go into full on tank mode, but I doubt it.

 

[Battle of Evermore]

At 12-26 we are already in tank mode. We seem to play well some nights but well enough to lose. Dudley and Gortat are trade able tut would like them to keep Dudley unless there is too good of a deal to pass up. O'Neal and Telfair can help other teams. We may be able to get something for them. I do not understand why we are not playing Marshall and Johnson. At this point what is there to lose? ohnson has not been given a shot at playing time. I would like to see Marshall in games as he will not get better unless he plays. If one of them can play it is one less position we need to address. If they suck we get more ping pong balls. Gay is a really good player but I would not trade assets for him

 

[JCSunsfan]

Which in a weird way is what I think Sarver wants. I was trying to think from a Sarver POV. Obviously, he wants a title contender, but if he cant have that, he wants a playoff team. .

What Sarver wants the Suns to be is the San Antonio Spurs, financially sound, consistently competitive.

The problem is that the Suns do not have Tim Duncan. The Spurs have remained relevant for two decades by going from David Robinson to Tim Duncan. They got incredibly lucky by tanking and winning the lottery in years with can't miss stars at the top of the list. They added very competent pieces around and have made it work.

But that is going to come to an end for the Spurs. The Suns are probably two years ahead of the Spurs in the rotation, but when Duncan retires and Ginobili and Parker age, the walls will come crashing down just like with the Lakers this year.

Its funny to read the Laker's message boards. Fans are expecting some other stupid owner to give the Laker's championship assets that will propel them toward future titles. They are using nearly those words, because "we're the Lakers and it always happens that way."

We have to be who we are, right now, and build from here. The goal is a championship, not just mid-level competitiveness.

Oh, I wish I could be an owner.

 

[HooverDam]

^ I suspect the reason Marshall and Wes Johnson don't play is because the Suns seem to lack any cohesive organization wide plan. Gentry can play them, because he knows that'll lead to losing. His contract hasn't been extended, so Gentry has to try to win as much as he can.

If Sarver were a good owner, or a smart person (he's not), he'd extend Alvin Gentry who's been a terrific Coach. That should be Job 1. Job 2 is telling Alvin "you're safe, play young guys, lets see what we have. And by the way, try Beasley at the 4, if he gets half a season at the 4 and still doesn't work, we made a mistake."

Then he ought to call up all contending teams and let them know, for Draft picks, any player on the Suns roster is available. There's no pieces currently here worth hoarding with the possible exception of Dragic.

The Suns shouldn't load up on too many picks in this years draft, as thats never a wise idea, especially in a weak draft. But they could potentially set themselves up for years to come with 2 picks in the first round for many years. Thus giving themselves a small bit of insurance against bad picks.

I'd be on the phone with Boston constantly if I were Blanks. They need another big next to KG to take some of the pressure and minutes on him, Gortat would be a perfect guy. They could also use another versatile guy off the bench, Dudley (BC guy to boot), would be a good fit as well.

A Dudley+Gortat+Zeller for Avery Bradley+Courtney Lee+Jared Sullinger+Fab Melo+Jason Collins deal works under the cap. Its robs Boston of a lot of their young talent, but if they want to try to get past the Heat right now, maybe thats worth it for them.

I like Bradley a lot, he's a good defender. Courtney Lee is what he is, but he's on a cheap contract. Collins is expiring, I doubt Fab Melo ever develops into anything, and Sullinger can at least be a decent role player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree Hoover. The Suns want to start stockpiling young talent. But they also need to target a superstar player. This is going to mean taking advantage of the opportunity when it arrives like the Suns did in the past with Chambers, Barkley, Kidd, and Nash.

I am not sure who that will be at this moment, but they need to be ready. This summer, I assume there will be a window for some other team to get Dwight Howard. It seems that he and Kobe are not compatible.

 

[Phrazbit]

Which in a weird way is what I think Sarver wants. I was trying to think from a Sarver POV. Obviously, he wants a title contender, but if he cant have that, he wants a playoff team.

I do think that team is a pretty sure fire lock for the playoffs, especially once you add a piece or two next year in FA and the draft. You'd need some more backup Bigs as insurance for Amare.

I agree Id rather out and out tank for 2 years, but we don't see any signs of that happening. Hopefully at the break the Suns will trade Gortat & Dudley to contenders (theyre both useful pieces) and we'll go into full on tank mode, but I doubt it.

For that team to be a playoff lock then we'd have to use a time machine and get the Amare of 2-3 years ago. Just watch him play in the next Knicks game, he is finished.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

What Sarver wants the Suns to be is the San Antonio Spurs, financially sound, consistently competitive.

The problem is that the Suns do not have Tim Duncan. The Spurs have remained relevant for two decades by going from David Robinson to Tim Duncan. They got incredibly lucky by tanking and winning the lottery in years with can't miss stars at the top of the list. They added very competent pieces around and have made it work.

But that is going to come to an end for the Spurs. The Suns are probably two years ahead of the Spurs in the rotation, but when Duncan retires and Ginobili and Parker age, the walls will come crashing down just like with the Lakers this year.

Its funny to read the Laker's message boards. Fans are expecting some other stupid owner to give the Laker's championship assets that will propel them toward future titles. They are using nearly those words, because "we're the Lakers and it always happens that way."

We have to be who we are, right now, and build from here. The goal is a championship, not just mid-level competitiveness.

Oh, I wish I could be an owner.

The suns always tank in the wrong years. For instance they tanked in the 03-04 season in which they traded away their 1st round pick, but they didn't tank in the 02-03 season when LeBron, Melo, Bosh and Wade all went in the top 5 in that draft.

 

[Battle of Evermore]

They just got lucky with the Lakers pick looking like a lottery pick. At this point the worst we can do is 5 and 12. We can get some good players and cap space. I think we need help almost everywhere but point guard. As was pointed out the Spurs played it right by getting lucky and tanking in the right seasons

 

[SunsTzu]

The suns always tank in the wrong years. For instance they tanked in the 03-04 season in which they traded away their 1st round pick, but they didn't tank in the 02-03 season when LeBron, Melo, Bosh and Wade all went in the top 5 in that draft.

In '02/'03 they were a playoff team with the first ROY straight from highschool, it was looking like they had their franchise player. In '03/'04 they didn't tank, they suffered injuries and dump a bad investment as they looked to sell the team. The Suns were winning games against playoff teams down the stretch in '04, hardly tanking.

Prior to this season the 2 worst in franchise history were '68/'69 and '87/'88. They got the #2 pick each of the years and I'm guessing you're opinion would be different about there inability to tank in the right year had they ended up with the 1st pick those year.

The Suns historically haven't tanked which is why they have the 4th best winning % in league history.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The suns always tank in the wrong years. For instance they tanked in the 03-04 season in which they traded away their 1st round pick, but they didn't tank in the 02-03 season when LeBron, Melo, Bosh and Wade all went in the top 5 in that draft.

I don't remember the Suns ever tanking (I assume by "tanking" you mean losing for the purpose of getting better odds in the lottery). There were times when they had bad teams, but I never remember them throwing in the towel on a season.

 

[BC867]

Anyway, it is frustrating to know that it will be awhile to see that our NBA franchise is