Suns In Talks To Get Rudy Gay

[Dr. Jones]

We need to build through the draft. Period. If you get the opportunity to pursue a true star in free agency then do it but dont give up long term contracts to role players.

Our current strategy of throwing out 3-4 year deals at 6+ million per year to guys that dont move the needle is counterproductive and really really stupid. To go and then trade for a guy making 18 million a year who is merely "good" would be absolute lunacy. Gay does not put us anywhere near a title, he does not even put us in the PLAYOFFS.

Agreed.

This is utter lunacy.

 

[HoodieBets]

Yeah, a pick in the back half of the lottery..

Btw the Suns won't be able to afford Mayo, or any significant FA if they add Gay.

I believe once Frye is off the books and they could trade beasley and dudley I believe they would have enough money for a max deal. Gay is owed 17.8m next year and 19.3 the year after.

If they got gay got rid of dudley, beasley and got rid of frye they would be on the books for about 46.1m in salaries including gays 17.8m. Salary cap is gonna stay at 58m. They would have to do something with Scola who is getting a ton and use the draft picks and build off the rookies.

 

[Phrazbit]

But we all know this franchise is NOT going to build solely through the draft or even primarily through the draft. Arguing against any proposed move because it isn't building through the draft is an exercise in futility. That's not to say I'm in favor of this rumored trade but I can't fault them for trying to improve the product on the floor. Their jobs depend on putting butts in the seats today, not 5 years from now and they all know it.

Steve

The current regime should be fired already for that exact reason. Making moves with the short term in mind while the franchise is in its current state is bonkers.

And the question was what would MY answer be, not what I think the morons in charge will do. We should build through the draft. We currently have a golden opportunity to build through to draft over the next 2 years. If trade opportunities come along that fit the long term plan then go ahead and do them, I am not saying that trades and free agent signings are out of the question but they have to fit some kind of plan... besides creating a very brief spike in ticket sales. Look at this current suck of a team. When I said before the year that we shouldnt be giving out these contracts to role players people countered "they have to if they are going to fill the seats"... well... this team ISNT filling seats. People will come if the team is winning or young and exciting. Building through the draft can get you there. Signing mediocre players in free agency or trading for guys on crap contracts on the other hand does nothing but drive up costs and alienates the fans over the long haul.

 

[HoodieBets]

Its hard to build through the draft when you either draft poorly or arent bad enough to get a pick that can provide an impact player.

 

[Phrazbit]

I believe once Frye is off the books and they could trade beasley and dudley I believe they would have enough money for a max deal. Gay is owed 17.8m next year and 19.3 the year after.

If they got gay got rid of dudley, beasley and got rid of frye they would be on the books for about 46.1m in salaries including gays 17.8m. Salary cap is gonna stay at 58m. They would have to do something with Scola who is getting a ton and use the draft picks and build off the rookies.

No one is taking Frye or Beasley.

 

[Phrazbit]

Its hard to build through the draft when you either draft poorly or arent bad enough to get a pick that can provide an impact player.

We are bad enough. We're on pace to get a top 5 pick right now and the schedule is only getting harder. And if the Suns dont get better at the draft then they will NEVER be good. Period.

And its impossible to build in free agency, especially when you keep throwing awful players contracts.

 

[SunsTzu]

I believe once Frye is off the books and they could trade beasley and dudley I believe they would have enough money for a max deal. Gay is owed 17.8m next year and 19.3 the year after.

If they got gay got rid of dudley, beasley and got rid of frye they would be on the books for about 46.1m in salaries including gays 17.8m. Salary cap is gonna stay at 58m. They would have to do something with Scola who is getting a ton and use the draft picks and build off the rookies.

There is no guarantee that Frye will not be back and you are not accounting for the rookie contracts or roster minimum cap holds.

If there is no medical waiver given for Frye the most the Suns could offer is the MLE. If Frye is given a waiver they will likely be able to give a contract starting in the 8mil neighborhood.

Any way you slice it trading for Gay is terribly short sighted and will have an overall negative impact.

 

[HoodieBets]

could they sign gay to an extension to ease the burden the first two years. Im not as savy with nba contracts like I am with football.

 

[SunsTzu]

could they sign gay to an extension to ease the burden the first two years. Im not as savy with nba contracts like I am with football.

No. You can only renegotiate a NBA contract after 3 years of the current deal and it can only increase the value. To my knowledge this has never actually happened as usually teams will just have the player sign an extension.

 

[Phrazbit]

could they sign gay to an extension to ease the burden the first two years. Im not as savy with nba contracts like I am with football.

NBA contracts are guaranteed, where NFL ones are not. Gay has no incentive to change his contract unless the dollar total increases dramatically... which isnt even possible given the CBA.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Really? They are strongly trending downwards right now even.

Ever heard of a slump before?

 

[asudevil83]

Ugh, this would be absolutely terrible if the suns pulled it off. the ONLY way i could live with this trade if its Dudley/Beasley/1st Rounder (lotto protected in 2014 AND 2015) for Gay. and even that's stupid

we SHOULD be offloading out talent/cap space for picks/salary relief. this is the opposite.

whatever....depending on the outcome of this possible trade i might just be done with this team.

 

[slinslin]

The Grizz should be the ones giving up a pick not us.

They dump the bad contract on us for expiring contracts and even instant salary cuts.

Dudley, Beasley and 7M$ expirings for Gay and sweeteners should be the deal. Dudley clearly is a more valueable asset than Gay.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The current regime should be fired already for that exact reason. Making moves with the short term in mind while the franchise is in its current state is bonkers.

And the question was what would MY answer be, not what I think the morons in charge will do. We should build through the draft. We currently have a golden opportunity to build through to draft over the next 2 years. If trade opportunities come along that fit the long term plan then go ahead and do them, I am not saying that trades and free agent signings are out of the question but they have to fit some kind of plan... besides creating a very brief spike in ticket sales. Look at this current suck of a team. When I said before the year that we shouldnt be giving out these contracts to role players people countered "they have to if they are going to fill the seats"... well... this team ISNT filling seats. People will come if the team is winning or young and exciting. Building through the draft can get you there. Signing mediocre players in free agency or trading for guys on crap contracts on the other hand does nothing but drive up costs and alienates the fans over the long haul.

Why do that when you can overpay for mediocre talent and get the ***** Morris's and Kendall Marshall's of the world?

I'm personally thrilled with our rebuilding efforts!

 

[JS22]

I think Gay as the #1 option would be an improved player here. People said the same about Beasley, but I don't THINK Gay is as much of a headcase. And he has shown the ability to be, at least, a near all-star level player.

That said, giving up Dudley and a pick is just stupid. It should be the other way around. Memphis should be trying to improve the deal since they're dumping salary.

 

[hcsilla]

Its hard to build through the draft when you either draft poorly or arent bad enough to get a pick that can provide an impact player.

And adding an overpaid semi-star would reduce our chance even more to get a higher pick.

Even if the Grizzlies would add a future 1st and the Suns could include Beasley, I still wouldn't do the deal.

Trading for Gay is an absolute anti-rebuliding move with or without Beasley and regardless whether we get or give away picks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I really don't have much of a problem with a deal for Rudy Gay. He's not someone I'm excited about and I don't see him making much of a difference this season.

I know some people are worried about this deal harming our flexibility in the future and I'm not too worried about that either. Seriously, what flexibility? Even worse, what future? We have no way to know for sure but really, ask yourself this, do you really think we're about to stumble on the formula for success in the next couple of years? I think, almost no matter what we do, in three years we'll be talking about many of the same things unless there is a change at the top. Not near the top, at the top.

As long as they don't give away their own pick (this season or in the future) and as long as they don't give away Tucker, I'm fine with whatever they choose to do. If I owned this team I wouldn't make the deal unless they were willing to pay a premium to unload an overpaid player but our FO looks to be dealing from a position of weakness. Not only wouldn't I do this deal, I'd be looking to move Dudley, Gortat, Telfair and anyone else that could bring us back picks. Let Beasley, Morris,Johnson and whatever young player comes back to us in return for moving those guys average 35 minutes per.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I hope the Suns are smart enough to not give up assets (Dudley, picks) for an overpaid player like Gay. No question that Gay is better than Dudley, but Dudley at $4.5M is hell of a lot better than Gay at $18M or whatever he is going to make.

Memphis needs his gone, so make them pay for taking that contract off their hands- don't pay them for doing them a favor. You can get something similar to Gay next summer without giving anything up, and probably for less money.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I hope the Suns are smart enough to not give up assets (Dudley, picks) for an overpaid player like Gay. No question that Gay is better than Dudley, but Dudley at $4.5M is hell of a lot better than Gay at $18M or whatever he is going to make.

Memphis needs his gone, so make them pay for taking that contract off their hands- don't pay them for doing them a favor. You can get something similar to Gay next summer without giving anything up, and probably for less money.

Yep, no need to compound our stupid mistakes.

 

[hcsilla]

I really don't have much of a problem with a deal for Rudy Gay. He's not someone I'm excited about and I don't see him making much of a difference this season.

I know some people are worried about this deal harming our flexibility in the future and I'm not too worried about that either. Seriously, what flexibility? Even worse, what future? We have no way to know for sure but really, ask yourself this, do you really think we're about to stumble on the formula for success in the next couple of years?

We may be if the Babby and Co. will leave and they hire someone from the Moneyball-wave like Morey or Cho.

Otherwise I agree with everything that you said in that post.

 

[SunsTzu]

We may be if the Babby and Co. will leave and they hire someone from the Moneyball-wave like Morey or Cho.

Sad thing is Blanks is billed as a Moneyball type and in his interviews around draft time the front office bragged about their analytics process. Not surprisingly the team Blanks honed his craft(Cavs) seems to be using the same flawed process with their recent over-drafting of Thompson and Waiters.

The only hope for the Suns is replacing those responsible for the horrendous talent acquisition before than can do any more harm.

 

[slinslin]

Blanks is billed moneyball?

Surely not, everything he says indicates that he is someone who believes in the eyeball test only.

He mocked fans using the internet, he picked up Beasley and just sounds stupid in every interview.

Besides I am not sure the moneyball approach is so easy to use for basketball scouting.

In the draft you would always have to factor in things like Age, Experience, Character, Physical abilities. Moneyball tells you that Markieff was extremely effective in the NCAA but it does not tell you that he is undersized, short armed and average athletically which hurts him at the NBA level to a degree that he is not efficient anymore at all.

I have recently tinkered in private with a statistical analysis tool that is supposed to rate all college players by data mining and predicting the chances of their senior averages based on past development of players at the same age and college experience.
You want to compare a 18 year old freshman that averages 12/4/4 to a 23 year old senior putting up 23/6/4?

But still it would only give a very vague idea and you would have to factor in strength of schedules and and and..

 

[AsUdUdE]

Gambo just tweeted the Gay deal would include Beasley and either Frye/Dudley..

He also said it is very unlikely the Suns include ANY first round picks...

Finally said he ultimately doesn't think a deal will get done, which imo would be the best case scernio...

Gambo has talked me off the ledge..

 

[SunsTzu]

Still don't think the trade happens, Memphis desperate to trade Gay & save on lux tax but also want picks &Suns unlikely to give up any 1sts

Per Gambo tweets.

 

[Chaplin]

Sounds to me that Memphis doesn't know how to trade. They want assets AND pick(s) for the albatross that is Gay's contract? Nuts.