Suns/Bucks Debacle...

[sly fly]

- I'm done with L. Barbosa. Head down, lack of vision, lack of court awareness, inability to finish = journeyman.

- I'm done with Tim Thomas. His lack of hustle irks the hell out of me. I also get the sense Eddie Johnson doesn't care much for him either.

Take your inconsistent mediocrity to another team this off-season.

- This trip reminds me of the one last year in which PHX looked dead in the water. However, they got their legs back and the rest was history.

- Management's lack of concern in replacing KT or Amare with a serviceable big man may come back to haunt them.

- Raja Bell NEEDS to be more consistent from game to game on OFFENSE. He has the game to deliver and become a constant threat. Too often, he defers to other shooters.

 

[Chaplin]

- I'm done with L. Barbosa. Head down, lack of vision, lack of court awareness, inability to finish = journeyman.

- I'm done with Tim Thomas. His lack of hustle irks the hell out of me. I also get the sense Eddie Johnson doesn't care much for him either.

Take your inconsistent mediocrity to another team this off-season.

- This trip reminds me of the one last year in which PHX looked dead in the water. However, they got their legs back and the rest was history.

- Management's lack of concern in replacing KT or Amare with a serviceable big man may come back to haunt them.

- Raja Bell NEEDS to be more consistent from game to game on OFFENSE. He has the game to deliver and become a constant threat. Too often, he defers to other shooters.

Damn that Amare! He needs to take the rest of the season off! Especially after this game!

Sly, you have become the biggest alarmist on the board! I know you're pessimistic and all, but I don't remember you being this much of one.

 

[az1965]

The offense today was not bad, but the defense is completely non-existant.

 

[sly fly]

Damn that Amare! He needs to take the rest of the season off! Especially after this game!

Sly, you have become the biggest alarmist on the board! I know you're pessimistic and all, but I don't remember you being this much of one.

Have you watched the last two games?

Or how about...

at Portland (L 111-01)
at Utah (L 107-99)

Rather odd that these other suck teams are all of a sudden having breakout performances against the Suns.

Should I have rose-colored glasses on, or are you seeing something different?

 

[sly fly]

Damn that Amare! He needs to take the rest of the season off! Especially after this game!

Sly, you have become the biggest alarmist on the board! I know you're pessimistic and all, but I don't remember you being this much of one.

BTW, I call it like I see it. Looks like I wasn't the only one who was SHOCKED to see Amare limp around like Bill Russell of today. Mike D shut him down, not me.

This is even afer Mike D was a proponent of seeing Amare "battle" through the pain.

Pessimist? Hardly. Disgusted by a couple of players inability to play D or make the smart play? Yep.

 

[Chaplin]

BTW, I call it like I see it. Looks like I wasn't the only one who was SHOCKED to see Amare limp around like Bill Russell of today. Mike D shut him down, not me.

This is even afer Mike D was a proponent of seeing Amare "battle" through the pain.

Pessimist? Hardly. Disgusted by a couple of players inability to play D or make the smart play? Yep.

It was the Barbosa comment that totally did it for me. He has played spectacularly most of this year.

 

[sly fly]

It was the Barbosa comment that totally did it for me. He has played spectacularly most of this year.

But, what part of my statement is not true about Leo?

Yes, he can hit a wide-open 3.
Yes, he has a good first step.

No, he doesn't use his quickness to be a disruptive defender. Even if he can't run the point, the one thing that will make him a threat is being a lock down defender. I just don't see it. At least, not yet.

 

[jibikao]

I don't think offense is our problem. The opposing team shot 60%. We shot 49% which is usually good enough to defeat any other team.

I wonder what the team is thinking about right now.

Obviously, our rebounding is beyond pathetic. Bucks out rebounded us 45 > 29.

I didn't watch the game but did we double team so much to open up 3pt or we got eaten inside a lot? Or combination of both?

I hope this is just a short slump. At least we didn't lose by 40pt tonight! sigh.... tomorrow is on TNT. Good luck.

 

[jibikao]

But, what part of my statement is not true about Leo?

Yes, he can hit a wide-open 3.
Yes, he has a good first step.

No, he doesn't use his quickness to be a disruptive defender. Even if he can't run the point, the one thing that will make him a threat is being a lock down defender. I just don't see it. At least, not yet.

Funny how last year I was complaining about Barbosa so much. I've already accepted the fact/truth that he is only a good backup scoring PG. If you think he is a scoring PG, then you may like him more. Other than that, he is no Tony Parker even with his speed and a bit bigger size.

 

[JS22]

- I'm done with L. Barbosa. Head down, lack of vision, lack of court awareness, inability to finish = journeyman.

- I'm done with Tim Thomas. His lack of hustle irks the hell out of me. I also get the sense Eddie Johnson doesn't care much for him either.

Take your inconsistent mediocrity to another team this off-season.

- This trip reminds me of the one last year in which PHX looked dead in the water. However, they got their legs back and the rest was history.

- Management's lack of concern in replacing KT or Amare with a serviceable big man may come back to haunt them.

- Raja Bell NEEDS to be more consistent from game to game on OFFENSE. He has the game to deliver and become a constant threat. Too often, he defers to other shooters.

Wow....

 

[jibikao]

Has Brian Grant come "back" yet? He is probably our biggest guy right now with a bit more playing time. In 7mins, he got 1 rebound. What the hell was he doing? Boxing out? He sure did a great job on THAT!

Diaw had 4 fouls... was he in foul trouble so he didn't play physical enough?

 

[Sundance]

Anyone for starting Burke or Skita? One of them could at least grab a few rebounds accidently, right? RIGHT?!?

 

[jibikao]

Anyone for starting Burke or Skita? One of them could at least grab a few rebounds accidently, right? RIGHT?!?

You wish!

Rebound is a big problem but I also think we refuse to give hard fouls. Only Kurt Thomas used to give hard tricky fouls. Bell gives some hard fouls too but he doesn't play inside as much.

What I want Briant Grant or Burke/Skita to do is to give HARD FOUL whenever they step inside. Do not give up any open layups or dunks. If they are going to make it, you might as well let them earn at the line. It's not something I like to see on NBA but every other teams are using this strategy especially in the playoffs.

I mean why are our big men saving their fouls for? I know Kurt wasn't very shy about using his fouls and I think it gives us some toughness. Sometimes when you play aggressively, the refs favor you.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Well I was at the game and had a long reply typed out but since I didn't click remember me at the login screen it logs you out after about 30-45 seconds.

What is the point then if it logs you out after just 30 fn seconds, at least make it 20 minutes.

 

[Errntknght]

Up until about half way through the third quarter it was a fairly even game with the teams exchanging the lead every couple of minutes then the Bucks started raining threes - by everyone - Redd, Charlie Bell, Kukoc, Bobby Simmons. They hit something like 11/13 for the quarter.

The problems for the Suns actually originated inside, as usual. It wasn't that they were doubling mindlessly but Magliore, Bogut and Gadzuric were overpowering our guys and forced the defense to pull back into the paint. Raja was mostly sticking with Redd at the arc, as he should, but when the other Bucks got super hot from the outside there was nothing much the Suns could do. When they extended the D, Milwaukee went inside.

Oddly enough, in the third quarter it was Toni Kukoc who did the most damage, playing like the Toni of ten years ago, aided by Charlie Bell who had by far the best game of his career.

 

[golfcardfan]

TY errntknght i think people are overlooking the bucks went insano from the 3pt line or they would not have won this game. I am not near as dissapointed with this loss as I am with the one the night before!

 

[jibikao]

I think the best solution to our "inside" D problem is to have one of our big guys step up big time.

Diaw is acting like a play-maker more than a "center" recently. I even wonder if he refuses to play physical defense because D'Antoni doesn't want him to get into foul trouble? I hope this is not the case because if it is, then we are falling back to last year's system where we let the opponent score big on us any way they like.

I want D'Antoni to get back to the time when we had 11 winning streaks. Diaw was usually in foul trouble but during the time he played, he was highly effective both defensively and offensively.

Our big guys need more mins. None of the big guys play more than 10mins for the past 3 games. That's not acceptable. Not the way we got out rebounded by Jazz and out muscled. Now that Kurt Thomas is injured and he won't be back in playoffs, we need one of our big guys to step up big time. A big guy that can defend the paint and rebounds for us. At this rate and as sad as it sounds, I am rooting for Burke. Unless Brian Grant suddenly becomes better or more in shape, I want to see more playing time from Burke. Use his fouls to punish whoever that comes to the paint.

 

[golfcardfan]

I would love to see Pat Burke put in and foul guys hard that come into the paint. Seriously I would use him as a fouling machine come in and make statement fouls foul him out a few games in a row then see how many guys come recklessly into the paint? We need to play the tough defense we have seen it before we know we can where is it?

 

[myrondizzo]

the problem with doing that is that once he checks out they are then free to drive again. thats what is wrong with only having a few defensive minded players on the team. it really needs to be a team effort. once they figure out that if they drive to the hoop everyone on our team will foul them hard then they will stop driving.

 

[Chaplin]

I think the best solution to our "inside" D problem is to have one of our big guys step up big time.

Really? That's very progressive, I'm sure nobody on this board or the Suns team has thought of that.

 

[nowagimp]

The problem is that the suns dont have an interior defender with strength to play the 5 defensively for extended periods(KT). Opposing bigs who can play the post offensively are the biggest problem. Expecting Diaw(6'8", 220?) and Marion(6'&', 228) to fight it out with 7 footers like Bogut, Magloire, Kristic, Muhammad, Duncan etc, every night is not realistic. Diaw is probably wearing down, losing weight from all the banging. With KT out it puts even more on Diaw and Marion. NBA players all experience weight and strength loss as the season progresses. I even remember barkley wearing down and talking about muscle strength and weight loss!!. The effect is most pronounced on the inside guys, especially the undersized(understrength) ones.

Burke is not the answer because he cant play the post defensively and limit the need to double team. Kristic, Magloire or Bogut would have destroyed him in the paint. As far as stepping up, when a leopard changes his spots, maybe. The suns have what they have personnel wise. If Grant doesnt show improvement soon(he currently chases but doesnt catch rebounds or offensive players making moves), the suns are in deep s___.

 

[jibikao]

Really? That's very progressive, I'm sure nobody on this board or the Suns team has thought of that.

I am sure you love going through every thread and argue everything people say here. Oh wait, it's an "idea" that you want to share.

I am sure D'Antoni has thought of that by using our big guys more after KT went down, or not? Our big guys don't play nearly enough except during garbage time.

 

[jibikao]

The problem is that the suns dont have an interior defender with strength to play the 5 defensively for extended periods(KT). Opposing bigs who can play the post offensively are the biggest problem. Expecting Diaw(6'8", 220?) and Marion(6'&', 228) to fight it out with 7 footers like Bogut, Magloire, Kristic, Muhammad, Duncan etc, every night is not realistic. Diaw is probably wearing down, losing weight from all the banging. With KT out it puts even more on Diaw and Marion. NBA players all experience weight and strength loss as the season progresses. I even remember barkley wearing down and talking about muscle strength and weight loss!!. The effect is most pronounced on the inside guys, especially the undersized(understrength) ones.

Burke is not the answer because he cant play the post defensively and limit the need to double team. Kristic, Magloire or Bogut would have destroyed him in the paint. As far as stepping up, when a leopard changes his spots, maybe. The suns have what they have personnel wise. If Grant doesnt show improvement soon(he currently chases but doesnt catch rebounds or offensive players making moves), the suns are in deep s___.

I think Burke may offer more than Brian Grant at this moment but the point is none of our big guys are playing more than 10mins per game. Did they do that bad during the time they played or D'Antoni simply wants the team to outscore, outscore, outscore? My suggestion is to let the big guys play a bit more so Diaw doesn't need to hold back when he defends. Right now we are just screaming for solutions.

 

[Folster]

Really? That's very progressive, I'm sure nobody on this board or the Suns team has thought of that.

Chap you're killing me.

 

[nowagimp]

I think Burke may offer more than Brian Grant at this moment but the point is none of our big guys are playing more than 10mins per game. Did they do that bad during the time they played or D'Antoni simply wants the team to outscore, outscore, outscore? My suggestion is to let the big guys play a bit more so Diaw doesn't need to hold back when he defends. Right now we are just screaming for solutions.

Let me reiterate: The suns defensive problems are related to the need to double the post, as you have pointed out. Burke cannot play single coverage in the post on NBA '5' talent. Burke doesnt have the knowledge, and maybe not the physical skills to defend that position single coverage. Skita cant do it either. Playing our big guys more will not solve the problem if every time Diaw sits down to rest, the other team goes on a run(this is what happens very often). Grant has the know how to play single coverage post defense, but his physical conditioning and maybe residual knee injury prevent him from being effective. There are not that many players that can defend the post in the NBA and there were even less available when KT went down. This is why Dalembert and Tyson Chandler were able to sign rediculou$$$$ contracts even though they are one-dimensional.