Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah but it’s his job to scout players like McCollum and do it well. It’s why he gets paid millions upon millions of dollars to do his job.

That is one of many facets of his job. And even so these are human beings that are being scouted. It is next to impossible to evaluate the human side of things. For instance knowing whether or not a player will continue to work hard after making millions of dollars. It is a massive gamble taking a guy like McCollum in the top 5 of the draft (even Lillard went like 8th and he was a better prospect) because they are making such a massive jump up in competition. It is a guessing game, regardless of how well you scouted him, as to whether or not he will succeed.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Mitchell is a much better shooter and defender (two things that are most needed from nba players today)’than Jackson. Other than that, yes they are similar.

Jackson's two years younger.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Jackson's two years younger.

He’s about 6 months younger, but he does have one less year of college.

 

[JS22]

Wake the f up...

McD isn't going anywhere right now. He's under contract for another year. He's definitely not getting axed during this offseason. This is where his accumulation of assets starts paying off.

Besides, he scored us Jackson so chill out. JJ is a step forward. Hopefully this offseason will be a leap forward.

Ah, pokerface and I agree on something!

To be honest I don't particularly care for McD either way, but I think dumping him now would only set the team back another 3-4 years. Let him finish out his plan and see where it goes. He's had some absolutely atrocious moves, but he's also brought in some mid-round gems like Booker and Warren, grabbed Jackson at 4, gave away basically nothing for Payton, etc.

Biggest issue I have with him is that he sees players as "assets" and not people. You've seen it with past players and you can hear it in his interviews. But it would be the typical Suns move to get rid of a guy that is finally beyond learning on the job, only to replace him with someone else without any experience. Let's see if McD has learned from his past mistakes over the next year or two.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ah, pokerface and I agree on something!

To be honest I don't particularly care for McD either way, but I think dumping him now would only set the team back another 3-4 years. Let him finish out his plan and see where it goes. He's had some absolutely atrocious moves, but he's also brought in some mid-round gems like Booker and Warren, grabbed Jackson at 4, gave away basically nothing for Payton, etc.

Biggest issue I have with him is that he sees players as "assets" and not people. You've seen it with past players and you can hear it in his interviews. But it would be the typical Suns move to get rid of a guy that is finally beyond learning on the job, only to replace him with someone else without any experience. Let's see if McD has learned from his past mistakes over the next year or two.

Hopefully he is starting to grasp the people part of the job. I think he is actually pretty good at making deals. Not that they have all turned out well by any means, but the returns for what is sent out almost always seems to appear to be in our favor.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Sarver was interviewed and you can sense the impatience setting in. Some quotes:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...partner-robert-sarver-devin-booker/398365002/

Q: Would you agree that this will be the most important summer you’ve had in a while?

A: I think so. Our younger players need confidence. I think there’s a fine line between coming in a game feeling confident you can win and not feeling confident you can win. I think maybe we can add a piece or two next season with some leadership and some experience and some winning and some grit that can help turn that confidence level with some of our younger players. So this offseason is going to be about adding some of that confidence and leadership, and at the same time to get some of our younger players to take a meaningful step forward. I think you’ve seen that a little bit this year. Obviously, Devin has shown he’s capable of playing at an All-Star level and can be one of the pillars of the franchise moving forward. The second half of this season for Josh (Jackson) has shown what we saw when we drafted him. At times you’ve seen Marquese (Chriss) and Dragan (Bender) show what they can do, but the two of them haven’t been consistent enough.

Q: You sound like you want to add more veterans to the roster next year, guys who know how to play in this league.

A: I think two things. Balance in terms of shooting. The league has been changing. What’s very important is the ability to shoot the 3 and defend the 3. And getting back to this winning attitude that someone can bring to us. Someone who has won and someone who plays a meaningful role on our team. Someone who probably is a starter or first guy off the bench who can bring some swagger and a winning attitude. Obviously I’m biased, but I do think the talent on our roster is a little bit better than our win-loss record, and I think we need some of that winning attitude and swagger. I don’t think we have that right now.

 

[3rdside]

So the league’s been changing to 3pt shooting, apparently. That’s some insight right there.


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[Matt L]

I'm bringing this thread back. I'm changing my position. They need to fire McDonough. There is no way to sugar coat it, this team is bad. However, the moves they make this off-season is going to be the difference between being bad for another 5 years or getting some hope for the future.

In the coach poll thread, a lot of people have said Van Gundy wants to coach and have say in personnel. its probably a good time to look a that option and cut bait with McDonough.

 

[unseenaz]

tough choice for sarver, glad i'm not making it. i bet he gets this offseason and next season to prove he can build a competitive team. his last 2-3 years probably fall under the protection blanket of "we were taking" if they decide to push in the chips this offseason, he'll need results next year

 

[Town Drunk]

I'm bringing this thread back. I'm changing my position. They need to fire McDonough. There is no way to sugar coat it, this team is bad. However, the moves they make this off-season is going to be the difference between being bad for another 5 years or getting some hope for the future.

In the coach poll thread, a lot of people have said Van Gundy wants to coach and have say in personnel. its probably a good time to look a that option and cut bait with McDonough.

I still can’t believe the thread is this long. Look at the body of work over the past couple of years. Look at the coaching changes, the trades, the draft, the record. Of course he needs to go. The Suns are a joke.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Saver def needs to rid McD off the Suns especially if we get a future generational player such as Ayton in this draft. We already have a couple of core star players in Booker and Jackson so now is the time to cut bait with McD and start anew going into next season. Get a well seasoned HC with a track record for consistent winning but first hire a GM to oversee the choice of HC. I wouldnt have a problem with Van Gundy as HC and/or GM.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wouldn't fire Ryan at this time. I might have fired him when he drafted Chriss and Bender or even when he got in a public pissing contest with Goran but not now. Do I think he's a good GM? I have no idea, I'd guess mediocre at best. But I do think stability at GM and Head Coach is almost as important as having the right person, up until you're absolutely sure you have the wrong one.

 

[Chaplin]

I wouldn't fire Ryan at this time. I might have fired him when he drafted Chriss and Bender or even when he got in a public pissing contest with Goran but not now. Do I think he's a good GM? I have no idea, I'd guess mediocre at best. But I do think stability at GM and Head Coach is almost as important as having the right person, up until you're absolutely sure you have the wrong one.

What do you mean by stability? Sure, McD has been here a few years now, so I guess that is "stable," but the revolving door of coaches has been disastrous. So what do you do? Keep McD and hope to hire a great coach for stability in the front office, or cut bait, get a new HC and a new GM and try to develop stability there? If we get a new HC and that coach fails, or the players just get lost next year, what do you do then? Fire McD next summer? How is that stable?

At this point, and Sarver (and even McD) have said it--it's make or break time, and if getting a new GM pushes us in a better direction, than you do it.

 

[pokerface]

I'm still sticking with McD. He's done just enough to keep my interest and want to see his next moves. If he gets another no name coach though I might be turned off for good.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

I'm still sticking with McD. He's done just enough to keep my interest and want to see his next moves. If he gets another no name coach though I might be turned off for good.

Ive seen 5yrs? of his moves and Im not impressed. Infact he's put this franchise in reverse since he's been GM. He's proved time and time again he chooses the wrong HCs. Time to start over.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Suns have set almost every bad record possible in franchise history under McD, and outside of Booker and Jackson...there's really not much else to look forward to. He's GARBAGE.

 

[pokerface]

Ive seen 5yrs? of his moves and Im not impressed. Infact he's put this franchise in reverse since he's been GM. He's proved time and time again he chooses the wrong HCs. Time to start over.

It's easy to say start over but unless we know who the next candidate is I'm hesitant.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ive seen 5yrs? of his moves and Im not impressed. Infact he's put this franchise in reverse since he's been GM. He's proved time and time again he chooses the wrong HCs. Time to start over.

He has chosen two head coaches--Hornacek and Watson.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's easy to say start over but unless we know who the next candidate is I'm hesitant.

I am with you on this Poke. We could be a lot worse. He has managed to keep our cap from getting completely out of whack. He has tanked (or rebuilt or whatever you want to call it) so we could get the young players to get better. He has picked well, especially in the mid first round with Booker and TJ. He has had some poor picks (Len, and potentially Bender and Chriss) but those were very bad drafts in retrospect. He has managed to get decent picks out of bad situations (Morris, Bledsoe, Dragic). He has made at least one huge blunder (Laker pick), but even the IT trade is not looking that bad in retrospect. Brad Stevens slapped some paint on the situation and sold high. His Horny pick was not good, neither was Watson. To me, he is a better than average GM and improving. I know I will get flamed for this. But if Sarver fires him, he is going to hire someone else who will be much worse. Good GM's are very hard to find. Even PJ was a disaster in NY.

McD has managed to get two star players in place in Booker and Jackson. He has two players who could develop in Bender and Chriss. He has a solid piece either to keep or trade in TJ. He has multiple picks in the bag going forward and potentially the top pick in a top draft. This is NOT the time to bail.

 

[pokerface]

I am with you on this Poke. We could be a lot worse. He has managed to keep our cap from getting completely out of whack. He has tanked (or rebuilt or whatever you want to call it) so we could get the young players to get better. He has picked well, especially in the mid first round with Booker and TJ. He has had some poor picks (Len, and potentially Bender and Chriss) but those were very bad drafts in retrospect. He has managed to get decent picks out of bad situations (Morris, Bledsoe, Dragic). He has made at least one huge blunder (Laker pick), but even the IT trade is not looking that bad in retrospect. Brad Stevens slapped some paint on the situation and sold high. His Horny pick was not good, neither was Watson. To me, he is a better than average GM and improving. I know I will get flamed for this. But if Sarver fires him, he is going to hire someone else who will be much worse. Good GM's are very hard to find. Even PJ was a disaster in NY.

McD has managed to get two star players in place in Booker and Jackson. He has two players who could develop in Bender and Chriss. He has a solid piece either to keep or trade in TJ. He has multiple picks in the bag going forward and potentially the top pick in a top draft. This is NOT the time to bail.

Totally agree and I'm glad you brought up some positives because it's easy for fans to forget. We had injuries this season as well which scewed our record.

I think McD is as hungry as the rest of us to turn this ship around. I see him going all out this offseason. He has the tools now (finally). Too bad though that it looks like the Bucks pick may not convey this year but it's still a tradable asset.

 

[Chaplin]

McD has managed to get two star players in place in Booker and Jackson. He has two players who could develop in Bender and Chriss. He has a solid piece either to keep or trade in TJ. He has multiple picks in the bag going forward and potentially the top pick in a top draft. This is NOT the time to bail.

A broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean you should keep the clock.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

It's easy to say start over but unless we know who the next candidate is I'm hesitant.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even a blind acorn finds a squirrel now and then.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think when you take all of his moves individually you will find that he has made a lot of good moves. Trade to get Bledsoe, IT for pennies, three firsts for Goran, drafting T.J., Booker and Jackson (jury still out on Bender and Chriss.

He has had some bad moves that have somewhat countered the good. I would say though that he has shown a propensity for finding good value in trades and has shown that he can get good talent from them without losing much in return.

Draft has been about 50/50, but it does have us with quite possibly two franchise players and this next draft should have the best talent pool he has had to pick from yet.

Ultimately I trust that he will find value in this draft pick and he will be able to find some quality veterans in trades as well. He doesn’t have much of a free agent track record, but unfortunately free agency isn’t that strong this year anyways.

The only other big question is the coaching hire. This will be the first actual coaching search he has done (should have done one last year). Thus I don’t know how he will do with that part of the job.

All of that considered I just don’t see the value in moving on right now. Unless you have a great GM waiting in the wings, I think you need to just let him work this off season and see if he can get this thing turned around quickly.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think when you take all of his moves individually you will find that he has made a lot of good moves. Trade to get Bledsoe, IT for pennies, three firsts for Goran, drafting T.J., Booker and Jackson (jury still out on Bender and Chriss.

He has had some bad moves that have somewhat countered the good. I would say though that he has shown a propensity for finding good value in trades and has shown that he can get good talent from them without losing much in return.

Draft has been about 50/50, but it does have us with quite possibly two franchise players and this next draft should have the best talent pool he has had to pick from yet.

Ultimately I trust that he will find value in this draft pick and he will be able to find some quality veterans in trades as well. He doesn’t have much of a free agent track record, but unfortunately free agency isn’t that strong this year anyways.

The only other big question is the coaching hire. This will be the first actual coaching search he has done (should have done one last year). Thus I don’t know how he will do with that part of the job.

All of that considered I just don’t see the value in moving on right now. Unless you have a great GM waiting in the wings, I think you need to just let him work this off season and see if he can get this thing turned around quickly.

Even the best drafters are 50/50. There is no team in history that hits a majority of their draft picks. Jerry Colangelo and the vaunted scouting staff he hadi drafted Armon Gillian and Tim Perry very high, plus had a lot of other duds. Its just the nature of the draft.

I just think expectations are really high. The Suns have not done a full rebuild since the mid 1980's. Its a painful process.