Salary cap and dead money

[GuernseyCard]

I tend to disagree, if he is cut there is no guarantee the team who may be targeting him is going to get him since he would be a free agent to sign with any team. It would depend on if a team is in dire need of a LT and doesn't want to take a chance on not being able to obtain him.

I can think of one team who would be in dire need of a LT if he's let go.

Why exactly is he not good enough for the Cards and yet others will not only pick up his contract but send over draft compensation?

 

[cardpa]

I can think of one team who would be in dire need of a LT if he's let go.

Why exactly is he not good enough for the Cards and yet others will not only pick up his contract but send over draft compensation?

As I said in one of my earlier posts this situation would be if he got beat out for the LT position by someone else. I never said just jettison Humphries. Injuries happen in preseason so it's always a possibility that more than one team may be in need of a LT.

 

[GuernseyCard]

As I said in one of my earlier posts this situation would be if he got beat out for the LT position by someone else. I never said just jettison Humphries. Injuries happen in preseason so it's always a possibility that more than one team may be in need of a LT.

Well, there's no one under contract who'll beat him out for the job; they won't be spending FA bucks on a LT and highly doubt that a rookie would be trusted with this all-important position.

In other words, unless injured, Humph has the job at $9.6m.

 

[JeffGollin]

1. Ok. Who do you replace him with? He is the best offensive lineman on the roster. It's easy to point out how many games he's missed, but much harder to find someone as good as him. And anyone as good as him with a better track record of staying healthy will cost 5 million more.

2. No issues drafting a guy, but are you going to rely on a rookie to play a lot of snaps? Gresham is a competent player for the most part. The chances of finding a rookie as good as him are slim. Pay him one more year and then cut him loose. (And draft a young guy)

Krang - You might be right, but that's depressing (because it suggests that there's nothing we can do to improve our OL and TE play).

Somewhere during the offseason - if for no other reason than to protect our sanity - we'll need to roll the dice (via the draft, free agency or internal development) on fixing our OL and TE problems.

To do nothing would be criminal. To suck at something and then do nothing about it or deny it exists is a prescription for a long stay at Hotel Loser.

 

[oaken1]

Krang - You might be right, but that's depressing (because it suggests that there's nothing we can do to improve our OL and TE play).

Somewhere during the offseason - if for no other reason than to protect our sanity - we'll need to roll the dice (via the draft, free agency or internal development) on fixing our OL and TE problems.

To do nothing would be criminal. To suck at something and then do nothing about it or deny it exists is a prescription for a long stay at Hotel Loser.

we can help both positions by drafting a solid TE.....they block,...at least the ones on other teams do...... personally, I have pick 33 penciled in for a TE... then oline with 65....I think that would provide us with the most value for our draft buck

 

[slanidrac16]

In free agency we should be able to sign two lineman,at least one veteran receiver, and a stud inside linebacker. Maybe even a bad ass nose tackle. Anything less than this is the beginning of failure to tool this team before the draft. If we were to get Mosely and draft Bosa then Buchanon or Golden will be gone. We will know that before the draft.

 

[GuernseyCard]

In free agency we should be able to sign two lineman,at least one veteran receiver, and a stud inside linebacker. Maybe even a bad ass nose tackle. Anything less than this is the beginning of failure to tool this team before the draft. If we were to get Mosely and draft Bosa then Buchanon or Golden will be gone. We will know that before the draft.

I'm for signing Mosely and hopefully getting a bridge deal done with Golden. This offers flexibility at the draft. We have a NT. What's needed is added depth at the position, which can be acquired later in the draft. X. Williams, a UDFA who was let go, was starting last week for KC.

 

[cardpa]

Well, there's no one under contract who'll beat him out for the job; they won't be spending FA bucks on a LT and highly doubt that a rookie would be trusted with this all-,important position

In other words, unless injured, Humph has the job at $9.6m.

Wow! that's a lot of assumptions. You may end up right and then again you may end up completely wrong.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

2. You only save 2.5 million cutting Gresham. Horrible contract, but expect to see one more year of Gresham. It would be hard to find a better TE for 2.5 million.

If you cut Gresham as "Post-June 1st" you save 6.5 million.

A better tight end at a lower price?:

Marcedes Lewis
Maxx Williams
Lance Kendricks
Tyler Kroft
Jesse James
CJ Uzomah

these would all give the same production in the passing game as Gresham's ceiling of about 30 catches, 300 yards, and 2 TDs. Not to mention on the lower end you have guys that block better.

Gresham is extremely replace-able and worth the money to be one of the two Post- June 1st cuts.

FYI, mattering on what Kingsbury wants in a QB, Glennon could be a post-June 1st cut and save 3 million against the cap.

JMHO

 

[GuernseyCard]

Wow! that's a lot of assumptions. You may end up right and then again you may end up completely wrong.

I'll go with option #1.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

As said, I'll take the bird in hand over some unnamed player that supposedly can easily replace Humphries. And, while I have no love for Gresham, I'll keep him around until there is someone with a name who is better.

P.S. Bobbie Massie would have been good continuity for OUR line and if he can be replaced for $2m in this year's draft one has to wonder what you see that they don't.

May I add, that if Massie talent is available for $2m, put me down for two.

Bobby Massie is a great subject. He dropped in the draft because he was "only" a right tackle talent. ........... when you do not have ANY right tackle talent on said football team, then doesn't that create some value ?These days pass rushers come from both sides. A good right tackle is important.

Didn't understand why he dropped in the draft, and didn't understand why Massie wasn't resigned by the Cardinals.

Now, will the Cardinals make the same mistake and let Joseph Barksdale walk ? I think that would be a big mistake because Barksdale has NFL right tackle starter talent, and the Cardinals need a right tackle. Would not make sense to let him walk. IMHO

 

[Krangodnzr]

If you cut Gresham as "Post-June 1st" you save 6.5 million.

A better tight end at a lower price?:

Marcedes Lewis
Maxx Williams
Lance Kendricks
Tyler Kroft
Jesse James
CJ Uzomah

these would all give the same production in the passing game as Gresham's ceiling of about 30 catches, 300 yards, and 2 TDs. Not to mention on the lower end you have guys that block better.

Gresham is extremely replace-able and worth the money to be one of the two Post- June 1st cuts.

FYI, mattering on what Kingsbury wants in a QB, Glennon could be a post-June 1st cut and save 3 million against the cap.

JMHO

That's not what I'm seeing. His deadcap number is 6.5 million, and a cap saving of like 2 million.

FYI Jesse James is the TE I want this team to go after. Hardcore blocker and capable receiver. As others have stated, having a good blocking TE will improve the overall blocking efficiency of the team and James really moves the needle in that direction. I'd probably throw an average of $7 million per at him. That would be an over pay, but if you cut Gresham, you'd get some of that cap room back once it clears.

I'd be inclined to keep Glennon, but yeah, it depends on how well he could execute elements of the Air Raid. Kanoff looked pretty decent in the preseason and now has a year under his belt. Maybe go young at QB, and bring in another young guy for the #3?

 

[Krangodnzr]

If the coaches think he'll play 12 more games, then I agree. But if he only play 3-4 games, then you are going to have an UDF playing for most of the season, so why not cut him and signed someone for less money who will be at least serviceable and also draft a potential LT of the future and still save money. The production will be a gain.

I think you are vastly overrating the ability to find a LT that even remotely approaches Humphries ability when healthy. Humphries is a solid starting LT, which isn't easy to find.

You cut him and then you sign, who? You draft who? This draft also sucks if you are looking for a LT, because there really isn't one that jumps out as a day one starter. The more I read experts talk about Jonah Williams, there are even doubts whether he can play RT in the NFL, let alone LT.

I think the best path is to keep Humphries, sign a starting caliber RG (move Pugh back to his natural LG), resign Barksdale, bring in a RT Free agent too, and draft an OL in round 2. If you make all of the free agency moves, I think it's not a guarantee you go OL in round two and that gives flexibility to address other positions (CB2, WR, TE, etc).

 

[GuernseyCard]

I think you are vastly overrating the ability to find a LT that even remotely approaches Humphries ability when healthy. Humphries is a solid starting LT, which isn't easy to find.

You cut him and then you sign, who? You draft who? This draft also sucks if you are looking for a LT, because there really isn't one that jumps out as a day one starter. The more I read experts talk about Jonah Williams, there are even doubts whether he can play RT in the NFL, let alone LT.

I think the best path is to keep Humphries, sign a starting caliber RG (move Pugh back to his natural LG), resign Barksdale, bring in a RT Free agent too, and draft an OL in round 2. If you make all of the free agency moves, I think it's not a guarantee you go OL in round two and that gives flexibility to address other positions (CB2, WR, TE, etc).

I was watching KC and a right - guard thought popped into my head.

The Chiefs' starting RG, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif MD, went down in game 5 and a rookie, Wylie, stepped in and did a solid job. LDT was reactivated for the playoffs but did not play.

So - KC has a surplus at the position.

Let's make a trade.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was watching KC and a right - guard thought popped into my head.

The Chiefs' starting RG, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif MD, went down in game 5 and a rookie, Wylie, stepped in and did a solid job. LDT was reactivated for the playoffs but did not play.

So - KC has a surplus at the position.

Let's make a trade.

The problem with offensive lines is that lines are really made with 2 really good players with at least decent players filling in the next 5 positions (two good back ups).

The main reason the Cardinals line sucks is because they lack the 2 really good players that strengthen the line. The Cardinals invested a 1st rounder and paid two guards star money to be those players. None of them have been any better than average.

So the issue is that you are 1) spending too much on mediocre players (Iupati/Pugh) 2) Don't have the two "star" linemen. Finding those two "star" linemen is easier said than done. You can sign JaWuan James because you think he is going to be a star, but he might actually be worse than what you think because so much of OL play is an aggregate situation since they all have to block in concert.

You can shoot for having 5 above average players, but that's really hard to pull off. Look at the Seahawks during the Holmgren years, and they basically had two stars (Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson) and a bunch of decent players supporting them. Or you can go the Cowboys of the past few years and throw a ton of money at the OL, but that method is unsustainable long term.

What I'm concerned about, is that Steve Keim really hasn't hit on ONE single O Lineman. Humphries is his closest, but he's been injured way too much.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The problem with offensive lines is that lines are really made with 2 really good players with at least decent players filling in the next 5 positions (two good back ups).

The main reason the Cardinals line sucks is because they lack the 2 really good players that strengthen the line. The Cardinals invested a 1st rounder and paid two guards star money to be those players. None of them have been any better than average.

So the issue is that you are 1) spending too much on mediocre players (Iupati/Pugh) 2) Don't have the two "star" linemen. Finding those two "star" linemen is easier said than done. You can sign JaWuan James because you think he is going to be a star, but he might actually be worse than what you think because so much of OL play is an aggregate situation since they all have to block in concert.

You can shoot for having 5 above average players, but that's really hard to pull off. Look at the Seahawks during the Holmgren years, and they basically had two stars (Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson) and a bunch of decent players supporting them. Or you can go the Cowboys of the past few years and throw a ton of money at the OL, but that method is unsustainable long term.

What I'm concerned about, is that Steve Keim really hasn't hit on ONE single O Lineman. Humphries is his closest, but he's been injured way too much.

Good points, but at some point we need an accepted definition of 'mediocre'

Iupati was an All-Pro and a second team All-Pro. If I remember correctly, his first year in AZ. Nagging injuries were more the issue and much the same could be said for Pugh.

We got good mileage out of Veldheer and, as mentioned, we failed to keep Massie who has become a mainstay in Chi-town.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

That's not what I'm seeing. His deadcap number is 6.5 million, and a cap saving of like 2 million.

I could be reading it wrong, but this is what it stated on OvertheCap.com

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[MadCardDisease]

I could be reading it wrong, but this is what it stated on OvertheCap.com

You must be registered for see images attach

Those charts look messed up for some reason.

Gresham has $3.5 Million of signing bonus left on his contract ($1.75M in 2019 and $1.75M in 2020) so that would be the dead money that would count against the cap if he is cut before the 2019 season roster bonus kicks in.

His remaining $4.75M Cap hit for 2019 would be saved by cutting him now.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Those charts look messed up for some reason.

Gresham has $3.5 Million of signing bonus left on his contract ($1.75M in 2019 and $1.75M in 2020) so that would be the dead money that would count against the cap if he is cut before the 2019 season roster bonus kicks in.

His remaining $4.75M Cap hit for 2019 would be saved by cutting him now.

Actually just read this little tid bit that I never noticed before:

Remaining $1.25M of 2018 salary + $2.25M of 2019 salary fully guarantee on 3/16/2018.

So because Gresham was on the roster last March 16th 2018, that extra $2.25M in salary for 2019 became fully guaranteed.

So the Dead money would actually be:

$5.75M

and the savings would only be

$2.5M


I don't see the Cardinals moving on from Gresham at that cost. This is truly one of Keim's worst contracts.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Actually just read this little tid bit that I never noticed before:

Remaining $1.25M of 2018 salary + $2.25M of 2019 salary fully guarantee on 3/16/2018.

So because Gresham was on the roster last March 16th 2018, that extra $2.25M in salary for 2019 became fully guaranteed.

So the Dead money would actually be:

$5.75M

and the savings would only be

$2.5M


I don't see the Cardinals moving on from Gresham at that cost. This is truly one of Keim's worst contracts.

I dunno. That looks like the numbers that are if they cut him outright and not schedule it as a post-June 1st cut.

I will just take your guys word for it tho, not really going to dig into it past the site.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Veer]

I'd cut Gresham regardless of dead money. He consistently drops the ball and has a track record of crucial mistakes and penalties. Just draft a TE in the mid or late rounds and sign some journeyman for the vet minimum. It can't get any worse than Gresham.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Actually just read this little tid bit that I never noticed before:

Remaining $1.25M of 2018 salary + $2.25M of 2019 salary fully guarantee on 3/16/2018.

So because Gresham was on the roster last March 16th 2018, that extra $2.25M in salary for 2019 became fully guaranteed.

So the Dead money would actually be:

$5.75M

and the savings would only be

$2.5M


I don't see the Cardinals moving on from Gresham at that cost. This is truly one of Keim's worst contracts.

Yep. The team only saves $2.5M cutting him. He's worth $2.5. You aren't likely to find better at that cost.

Still....sign me up for some Jesse James and a mid round rookie to balance out the TE room. Make RSJ more of a receiver and he might be more effective.

 

[cardncubfan]

The problem with offensive lines is that lines are really made with 2 really good players with at least decent players filling in the next 5 positions (two good back ups).

The Rams improved their line a lot by adding Whitworth & Sullivan. The others were rookies I believe.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The Rams improved their line a lot by adding Whitworth & Sullivan. The others were rookies I believe.

Saffold is a solid pro.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Rams improved their line a lot by adding Whitworth & Sullivan. The others were rookies I believe.

Nope.