POP: gasol deal incomprehensible

[ambchang_]

MEM GM Chris Wallace speculated that many other teams were upset about the move, but were keeping their displeasure as whispers. Pop went on record with a reporter. Doesnt get much more serious than that.

Everything that is said to reporter is on the record in an interview setting, even jokes.

And yes, Popovich was definitely making fun of Wallace's displeasure that people are secretly questioning his GMing abilities behind his back, so Pop just said, "Here you go, I am making fun of you in your face."

 

[BeeBeard]

Everything that is said to reporter is on the record in an interview setting, even jokes.

And yes, Popovich was definitely making fun of Wallace's displeasure that people are secretly questioning his GMing abilities behind his back, so Pop just said, "Here you go, I am making fun of you in your face."

Absolutely he was. Embedded in all the jokey humor and the "If I were King for a day..." platitudes was a subtle FU to Wallace. That's the real story.*



* Hint: Not "Popovich is just displeased." That says nothing anybody wouldn't know already.

 

[nowagimp]

"
Given what you've posted, continuing on would be like me tripping a fat, helpless kid with Down's or something. There's just nothing to be gained from it, and it just makes me feel like a bully. Are you sure you don't have like an older brother or a spokesperson or somebody who can step in in your place and can lay down some information that isn't childish and poorly-worded? Because I'm going to have to invoke the mercy rule here if you don't.

INVOKE beebeard, please invoke, that mercy has alot of benefactors. Im afraid he does have a brother, whos very like him!

 

[ambchang_]

Not that it would change anybody's minds, but this is what Laker fans think

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=55399&start=100

 

[D-Dogg]

It's weird that you would even present this as some sort of evidence (TWICE, no less), because it's probative of absolutely nothing at all.

Oh no, you mean he's displeased by a trade that hurts his team!?! Wait, and his displeasure is on record?!!? (whatever the hell that even means.) That must also mean that he literally wants to found and chair a committee that voids any trade that disadvantages his team! What a tyrant! What a Hitler or Napoleon! DEATH TO GREGG POPOVICH!

Yes. That logically follows. It absolutely makes sense. You're going to have to ramp it up here, unless you just insist that I just become stupider and more pliable by getting drunk right now or something. That's about the only way I'm not going to laugh off these insanely irrelevant arguments and links by the Lakers faithful.

Tell me now just so I'll know. Sarcasm or tongue-in-cheek verbage are not the kinds of things intelligent Lakers fans understand? What about colloquial expressions? Euphemisms? Similes? Onamotapoeia? At what point are you allowed to depart from reason and just think "Hur...Hur...He said what he said! Hur hur! The words is what they is!!" What happens if you're reading poetry or something? Do you just throw whatever you're reading against the wall in frustration?

Inform me.

The point isn't Pop joking about creating a committee...the point is Pop was upset about the trade.

And you are the one taking things literally. You must look like this guy, huh?

You must be registered for see images attach

Funny you are busting out the "take things literal" smack. You seem to be the only one doing that. Nobody thinks he really wants a trade oversight group; many of us think he's being a whiny hypocritical ******. That's all.

And Phillip has dropped more whining and pissing and moaning disguised as tongue-in-cheek commentary than the population of planet earth and Shazbot combined. Hell, he's probably messing with Pop somehow with that statement. Dude is mental.

 

[D-Dogg]

this is the best board in the universe.

Well, that is true.

 

[BeeBeard]

Mercy Rule: Invoked

And I'll thank you to never post my high school yearbook photo again.*


* I was voted "Most likely to get stung by bees."

 

[D-Dogg]

Not that it would change anybody's minds, but this is what Laker fans think

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=55399&start=100

Whoah, you mean they are having the same argument? No!

Phil Jackson also jokes all the time...with a purpose. The purpose of Pop's joke here was to say "i think their trade is bullshhhh."

Are you guys really saying that you don't think Pop can joke and bitch at the same time? Phil does it all.the.time.

 

[nowagimp]

I like Gil Arenas on the gasol trade:


"The Lakers stole Pau Gasol. They hi-jacked him. That should be a crime. You don’t give away Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and a rookie. I don’t care what’s out there, you can get more than that. You gave away a $100 bill and you got back two nickels and a dime."

and

"It seems like a pretty stupid move by Chris Wallace. No offense, I don’t know him personally, but you don’t give away Pau Gasol for what they got back. I mean, Chicago wanted Pau Gasol. They would have given something back in return. I mean, something. Ladies and gentlemen, they have Darko and Kwame at the four and the five. That’s all I’m going to say".

 

[abomb]

I like Gil Arenas on the gasol trade:


"The Lakers stole Pau Gasol. They hi-jacked him. That should be a crime. You don’t give away Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and a rookie. I don’t care what’s out there, you can get more than that. You gave away a $100 bill and you got back two nickels and a dime."

and

"It seems like a pretty stupid move by Chris Wallace. No offense, I don’t know him personally, but you don’t give away Pau Gasol for what they got back. I mean, Chicago wanted Pau Gasol. They would have given something back in return. I mean, something. Ladies and gentlemen, they have Darko and Kwame at the four and the five. That’s all I’m going to say".

Shows why Zero is a player, not a billionaire owner. The reasons for the deal have been recanted dozens of times and Wallace didnt call the shot, MEM ower Michael Heinsley did.

 

[nowagimp]

Shows why Zero is a player, not a billionaire owner. The reasons for the deal have been recanted dozens of times and Wallace didnt call the shot, MEM ower Michael Heinsley did.

So then an owner can dump a big contract talented player anytime? Does this mean he can disrupt the league trying to make his team more attractive to sell. So no one should complain if the spurs traded duncan to the suns for some expiring salaries near the trade deadline? Then you have what you have in the NBA, a league with many questions on the ethical behavior of its management. From questions about the governance of officials to the behavior of the front offices around the league. Maybe the NBA is so desperate to create championship teams because the spurs are reviled so. there was no "next MJ" and the league has taken a dive. What next, the lionization of yao ming to get the chinese market? Thats OK, if the NBA needs hulk hogan or andre the giant to market itself to make max money from the ignorant part of the fan base, there are other forms of entertainment that I would prefer anyway.

 

[abomb]

So then an owner can dump a big contract talented player anytime? Does this mean he can disrupt the league trying to make his team more attractive to sell. So no one should complain if the spurs traded duncan to the suns for some expiring salaries near the trade deadline? Then you have what you have in the NBA, a league with many questions on the ethical behavior of its management. From questions about the governance of officials to the behavior of the front offices around the league. Maybe the NBA is so desperate to create championship teams because the spurs are reviled so. there was no "next MJ" and the league has taken a dive. What next, the lionization of yao ming to get the chinese market? Thats OK, if the NBA needs hulk hogan or andre the giant to market itself to make max money from the ignorant part of the fan base, there are other forms of entertainment that I would prefer anyway.

The Suns did the same thing before the sale of the team to Sarver.

It's how the game is played. Notice owners arent complaining about the Gasol deal, only players and coaches; people with opinions who dont matter much in the end.

 

[elindholm]

I really wish I knew what the details were of the Suns' Mutombo trade that got nixed by the league. The fact is that the league has rules and other checks in place in order to maintain something resembling competitive balance. (Think also of the famous Ted Stepien rule, which prevents teams from leaving themselves without first-round picks in consecutive future drafts.)

We do sometimes see All-Star level players dumped for financial reasons, but I've never seen a case where the rebuilding team got so little back. You really can't point to any other trade in the last 25 years that is this lopsided -- not only in terms of talent, but in terms of the entire equation. I'm surprised the league approved it, and it begs the question, if this kind of trade meets approval, what kind of trade wouldn't?

 

[abomb]

I really wish I knew what the details were of the Suns' Mutombo trade that got nixed by the league. The fact is that the league has rules and other checks in place in order to maintain something resembling competitive balance. (Think also of the famous Ted Stepien rule, which prevents teams from leaving themselves without first-round picks in consecutive future drafts.)

I was googling it yesterday and all I could find were complaints that it was unfair, no specifics. I would be interested in hearing more about it.

Here is part of an archive;

BARKLEY UPSET AFTER CHARGES OF TAMPERING DOOM BIG DEAL
Published on July 15, 1996. Article 1 of 1 found.
SOURCE: Dave Krieger
Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer
Associated Press contributed to this report.
It's as official as it can be: The rumored three-way trade among Denver, Phoenix and Houston is dead because tampering so clearly was involved.


At least, that's what someone at the office of David Falk, Mutombo's agent, told Charles Barkley. ``Supposedly, the Rockets deal is dead because the NBA said there's been tampering,'' Barkley said after Dream Team III routed the Greek Olympic team Sunday. ``Which shows me... 765 words, Rocky Mountain News (CO)

 

[D-Dogg]

Wasn't the baron davis deal terrible?

 

[Covert Rain]

And I did, I showed mpg to show that the best players got the most minutes, I showed injury histories to backup the legitimacy of the injuries suffered in 97, and I showed the Spurs record continually improving throughout the season. You chose to ignore/disagree with them.

However, it didn't show when they played those minutes so MPG means nothing. The Spurs were keeping up with the Jones's in terms of record. Nobody ignored that. Your interpretation is different.

The whole point for the stupidity is to show your level of credibility. I mean, I can't talk Calculus to a bunch of Grade 2 students learning the multiplication table.

No actually that's your entire point. I am a vet on this board and my credibility speaks for itself. Your a trolling homer who won't agree no matter what is said.

 

[abomb]

Looks like the tampering charges came down around 7/14/1996. This article is before that;

Barkley eager for new address; Rockets set to pull trigger on transaction
(SPORTS) Author(s):Eddie Sefko.
Source:The Houston Chronicle (Houston, TX) (July 9, 1996): p1. (1169 words)
Document Type:Newspaper Bookmark:Bookmark this Document Library Links:
Full Text :COPYRIGHT 1996 Houston Chronicle Publishing Company Division, Hearst Newspapers Partnership, LP

.

Whether the NBA goes back to work today, it will be just a matter of time until the Rockets reload their roster, starting with Charles Barkley.

The league's moratorium on free-agent signings and trades is scheduled to end at 11 a.m. CDT today. But negotiators for the NBA and the players' union were talking late Monday, and the possibility exists that the moratorium could be extended beyond today.

The league and its players are trying to agree to details of the collective-bargaining agreement. The deal must be ratified by the players and signed by union leaders before teams can resume dealings with players.

The Rockets, like almost every other team in the NBA, will start wheeling and dealing as soon as possible after the moratorium is lifted, hoping to retool and fine-tune for the 1996-97 season.

When transactions can be made, the Rockets will take care of several procedural matters necessary to acquire Barkley. The first order of business is expected to be the renouncement of their rights to Kenny Smith, freeing up some $2.7 million under the salary cap. That will signify the end of Smith's six-season Rockets career.

It also will drop the Rockets far enough below the salary cap for them to complete the three-way trade to bring Barkley to Houston, a deal numerous sources insist has been agreed to in principle by all parties involved.

Monday, there were uncertainties about particulars of the trade. The unknowns involve Denver free-agent center Dikembe Mutombo and are such that gauging a timetable for the trade's completion could be difficult.

Denver president and coach Bernie Bickerstaff said Monday that the Nuggets will have an offer on the table for Mutombo at 11:01 a.m. CDT today. Whether that offer will be the one to facilitate the trade remains to be seen.

It's possible the Nuggets would start with a low-ball offer for appearance's sake. Any teams found to have negotiated with agents before the moratorium is lifted could be slapped with tampering charges by the NBA.

But at some point, the Nuggets are expected to sign Mutombo because the trade cannot go through unless the first domino to fall is Mutombo's signing.

As it is believed to stand, the trade would be consummated once Mutombo signs a five- or six-year deal starting at $6.8 million and escalating 20 percent per season. For six years, such a deal would average just more than $10 million per season, making it competitive with a deal the Detroit Pistons reportedly were formulating that would have paid Mutombo $50 million over five years.

With the Rockets under the salary cap, they then would ship Robert Horry and Sam Cassell to the Nuggets for Mutombo. The Rockets then would send Mutombo to Phoenix for Barkley and Joe Kleine, whose combined salaries would be within the allowable 15 percent of Mutombo's $6.8 million, making the deal work for Phoenix.

In essence, the Suns would set the price for Mutombo's contract.

The deal appears all but done. Sources in Phoenix have said the Suns are ready to embrace Mutombo. The Nuggets are thrilled to escape the financial handcuffs that signing and keeping Mutombo would have placed on them. The Rockets have remained quiet about the trade talks.

Barkley and Hakeem Olajuwon have talked about how they are looking forward to playing on the same team.

But there is always reticence about a trade until the trigger is pulled. Monday, there was speculation starting in Denver that Cassell might not be included in the deal. If not, another player might have to be included, depending on how far the Rockets are under the salary cap.

The reason for uncertainty regarding Cassell is the Nuggets were believed to be trying to fit Cassell into Rodney Rogers' salary slot vacated when they traded three players for Antonio McDyess on draft night in 1995.

The Nuggets lost that salary-cap slot when the 1996 draft passed. Such salary-cap slots can be retained only for one year.

But sources in Houston and Denver said they had not heard of any changes regarding the Rockets' planned roster moves and that Cassell and Horry are the departing players.

That means that when Barkley becomes a Rocket, they will be left searching for an NBA-quality point guard.

The top name on their list apparently is Washington free agent Brent Price, who had a breakthrough season with the Bullets in 1995-96.

Price averaged better than nine points and five assists in 81 games last season. This came after returning from a serious knee injury that kept the former Oklahoma Sooner out for all of the 1994-95 season.

During the last month of the season, Price was sharp enough to draw comparisons to his brother, the more heralded Mark Price, who is likely to retire before next season.

Brent Price, 27, could command a starting salary of $2 million.

It is unknown if the Rockets will be far enough under the cap after their Barkley trade to challenge for Price's services. If they are not, they might have to renounce their rights to Mario Elie, a decision that would be difficult for coach Rudy Tomjanovich.

But the Rockets will have to have a point guard.

Other players, such as Chucky Brown and Mark Bryant, are under contract for next season, and their salaries count against the Rockets' cap regardless of whether they are renounced.

 

[abomb]

Wasn't the baron davis deal terrible?

Nah, Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis seem reasonable.

 

[ambchang_]

Whoah, you mean they are having the same argument? No!

Phil Jackson also jokes all the time...with a purpose. The purpose of Pop's joke here was to say "i think their trade is bullshhhh."

Are you guys really saying that you don't think Pop can joke and bitch at the same time? Phil does it all.the.time.

Does it really take Pop coming out to say that the trade is bull for us to realize that? And all the while I thought it was obvious.

 

[abomb]

If someone spends $2.95, we can get this story.

 

[abomb]

Usenet has some good stuff;

Three-way deal involving Barkley on hold

Sunday, July 14 2:31pm ET

The three-way trade involving Charles Barkley of the Phoenix Suns and
free agent center Dikembe Mutombo is on
hold.


Barkley told NBC Sports today that the trade was stopped by the NBA for
tampering reasons.


"I got a call from one of my agents late last night and he told me the
deal wouldn't get through because there was too
much tampering," said Barkley before today's Dream Team III exhibition
against Greece at Indianapolis. "Come on,
everyone is tampering behind closed doors. But that's just typical NBA.
The league is trying to prove a point with this
trade and that's unfair."


The rumored three-team trade involves Phoenix, the Houston Rockets and
the Denver Nuggets. The Suns would send
Barkley to the Rockets and receive Mutombo from the Nuggets. Denver would
receive forward Robert Horry and
guard Sam Cassell from Houston.


However, Mutombo is a free agent and cannot be traded unless he signs a
contract. Mutombo apparently is interested
in entertaining free agent offers on his own.


If an agreement is not reached with Denver, then the Rockets and Suns
could trade directly.

 

[ambchang_]

However, it didn't show when they played those minutes so MPG means nothing. The Spurs were keeping up with the Jones's in terms of record. Nobody ignored that. Your interpretation is different.

That a team that is tanking would OBVIOUSLY play the best players less minutes so they could avoid pulling the entire starting five at end of close games like you asserted.

No actually that's your entire point. I am a vet on this board and my credibility speaks for itself. Your a trolling homer who won't agree no matter what is said.

I am terribly sorry that I am not familiar with your shining reputation, but it does raise some eyebrows when you said a team would tank so very obviously (pulling entire starting 5's out at end of close games), instead of doing something more subtle, like calling bad plays throughout the game, getting blown out by having inconsistent substition patterns, put in poor matchups, cut down on minutes on the talented players, etc ....

Nice job ignoring evidence, keep building that reputation of yours!

 

[D-Dogg]

Does it really take Pop coming out to say that the trade is bull for us to realize that? And all the while I thought it was obvious.

It's the steal of the century, but not bull. From that point on, it's whiny. And Pop complaining about bad deals or getting something for nothing is like Mike Tyson bitching about crazy people.

Take issue with WHY Memphis wanted nothing back, or as close to nothing that they could get, but don't take issue for a team giving them exactly what they wanted.

 

[ambchang_]

Nah, Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis seem reasonable.

Again choosing to ignore the specifics.
1) Davis was injured that season, and continued to be injured for quite a few years after the trade.
2) Davis did NOT get along with Scott, and Scott wanted him gone.
3) Dale Davis had a HUGE expiring deal that season at $10M.

 

[Covert Rain]

That a team that is tanking would OBVIOUSLY play the best players less minutes so they could avoid pulling the entire starting five at end of close games like you asserted.

Right cause POP isn't smart enough to manage the minutes of his team and create substitutions patterns that don't give his team the best chance to win.

I am terribly sorry that I am not familiar with your shining reputation,

Well apology accepted. Unfortunately, you have not evolved beyond troll and your posts keep getting more ridiculous by the moment.