NCAA to strip 38 wins from Memphis basketball over Derrick Rose

Russ Smith

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ESPN is reporting Memphis will forfeit the 38 wins they had in 2007 due to Rose having been an ineligible player. Rose apparently had a HS teammate take his SAT test for him, his brother Reggie also received more than $2000 in free travel from the school, and there are also allegations of academic fraud involving starter Robert Dozier on that same team.

No loss of scholarships or post season play so no probation, just forfeiting games. Calipari has now had this happen twice, once at UMASS because of Marcus Camby.
 
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Russ Smith

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The interesting here is I sure wish someone would explain to me how they can do the Rose investigation in a matter of months and strip the wins and yet Corey Maggette took cash from Myron Piggie over 10 years ago and yet his season at Duke has never been retroactively stripped?

I mean they know for a fact he was ineligible that year, other players involved with Piggie were sanctioned(and schools) but they have never done a thing about Maggette. I'm not blaming Duke, I seriously doubt they knew Maggette was ineligible, hell Stanford recruited him, but once the NCAA found out he took the money how could they not make Duke forfeit those wins under the same rule they are getting Memphis now?
 

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Russ, they have belief and/or backing that Memphis knew about the illegal test which is why they are culpable.

Memphis has now lost both of their FF appearances as well.

College basketball should be thankful for Mario Chalmers today.
 
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Russ Smith

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Russ, they have belief and/or backing that Memphis knew about the illegal test which is why they are culpable.

Memphis has now lost both of their FF appearances as well.

College basketball should be thankful for Mario Chalmers today.

Not sure, if they have evidence Memphis knew then why is Memphis not going on probation? The claim is no lost schollies, no lost postseasons, just forfeit wins. To my knowledge all they've done is rule Rose ineligible.

The NCAA knows for a fact that Maggette should have been ineligible because of his dealings with Piggie, they have never ruled him ineligible which would have then required Duke to forfeit those wins that season.

Doyel has a column on this in his blog, I think he's completely correct, there's no logic into how they can catch Memphis this quickly and never do a thing about Maggette and Duke.

note, I'm not complaining, if Rose didnt' take his own test this is the correct outcome, I just don't like how Maggette and Duke have been allowed to get away with their case. I don't care if Duke knew or not, if they played an ineligible player those wins should be forfeited, it's the rules.

It's happened with Umass, Memphis, why not with Duke that year?
 

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Not sure, if they have evidence Memphis knew then why is Memphis not going on probation? The claim is no lost schollies, no lost postseasons, just forfeit wins. To my knowledge all they've done is rule Rose ineligible.

The NCAA knows for a fact that Maggette should have been ineligible because of his dealings with Piggie, they have never ruled him ineligible which would have then required Duke to forfeit those wins that season.

Doyel has a column on this in his blog, I think he's completely correct, there's no logic into how they can catch Memphis this quickly and never do a thing about Maggette and Duke.

note, I'm not complaining, if Rose didnt' take his own test this is the correct outcome, I just don't like how Maggette and Duke have been allowed to get away with their case. I don't care if Duke knew or not, if they played an ineligible player those wins should be forfeited, it's the rules.

It's happened with Umass, Memphis, why not with Duke that year?

U Mass & Memphis do not = Duke. Don't forget about Boozer. Duke is the USC (football) equivalent of basketball. The world would cease to exist, as we know it, if Duke or USC actually got sanctioned.
 
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Russ Smith

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U Mass & Memphis do not = Duke. Don't forget about Boozer. Duke is the USC (football) equivalent of basketball. The world would cease to exist, as we know it, if Duke or USC actually got sanctioned.

That's Doyel's point and mine too. People are always going to complain about selective enforcement because of stuff like this. NCAA sends a letter to Rose in March 2008, 18 months later Memphis forfeits the season. Piggie's payments to Maggette were more than 10 years ago and nothign has happened.

Just doesn't equal out.
 

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Not sure, if they have evidence Memphis knew then why is Memphis not going on probation? The claim is no lost schollies, no lost postseasons, just forfeit wins. To my knowledge all they've done is rule Rose ineligible.

I thought Dozier had issues with his recruitment/eligibility as well.
 

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Agreed it makes no sense to pile up on Rose and then not make an example out of Maggette.

Also, the whole thing about Rose's brother is being blown out of proportion because I can tell you nearly every school in the country would be guilty of providing free travel to people who are not supposed to receive it.

It happens all the time and the only time schools get in trouble is when it is lumped in with another infraction.
 
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Russ Smith

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I thought Dozier had issues with his recruitment/eligibility as well.

That's been alleged. His SAT score was so much higher the 2nd time that Georgia dropped him(he'd committed to them) because they were suspicious about the score. memphis took him, went to prepschool and then using the same test score qualified him.

FYI Dan Wolken is reporting that Memphis gets 3 years probation in addition tothe forfeiting of games and NCAA money. So if true the punishment is worse than originally thought.

Apparently Rose failed to qualify 3 times in Chicago with the ACT, but then took it in Detroit and passed. Detroit is one of the main home bases for Worldwide Wes which is what caused suspicion. Another interesting rumor is apparently people close to Memphis say the guy who reported this to the NCAA was... Tim Floyd. No idea if thats true or how they would know etc but it's apparently been rumored for months now.
 
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DWKB

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FYI Dan Wolken is reporting that Memphis gets 3 years probation in addition tothe forfeiting of games and NCAA money. So if true the punishment is worse than originally thought.


And I read (not actually witnessed) that Rose took said test after he committed to Memphis. Points more towards a previous knowledge by the program of the violation.
 

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FYI Dan Wolken is reporting that Memphis gets 3 years probation in addition tothe forfeiting of games and NCAA money. So if true the punishment is worse than originally thought.

Depends on what type of probation. Im guessing its probation of the entire athletic department due to the issue of the womens tennis team that was lumped into this.

What ive heard is that the probation is for the athletic department, which doesnt exactly come down on the basketball team. It just forces the Memphis athletic department to keep things neat and clean while under probation or else.
 
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Russ Smith

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And I read (not actually witnessed) that Rose took said test after he committed to Memphis. Points more towards a previous knowledge by the program of the violation.

yeah the claim is that he took the test in Detroit, while Calipari was in Detroit on a recruiting trip. When you consider the ties between Cal and WWW, you can see why people would be suspicious, why would Rose take the test there?

Remember that's the entire reason OJ Mayo's ACT score was questioned, he didn't take it in West Virginia he took it out of state. What's odd is his was challenged immediately and cleared pretty quickly. If Rose took his out of state why did it take until the following March for it to be challenged?

But it is starting to sound like the NCAA suspects Memphis was somehow involved in it.

3 years probation but apparnetly no loss of schollies or post season.
 
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Russ Smith

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Depends on what type of probation. Im guessing its probation of the entire athletic department due to the issue of the womens tennis team that was lumped into this.

What ive heard is that the probation is for the athletic department, which doesnt exactly come down on the basketball team. It just forces the Memphis athletic department to keep things neat and clean while under probation or else.

I think you're correct, apparently no lost schollies or postseason ban.

For example technically Kansas was on probation when they beat Memphis for the title 2 years ago. They weren't banned from postseason but were on probation. AS you said depends on what type of probation.
 

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Calipari needs to be suspended as well.

You got to give the guy credit, he always seems to be one step ahead of the law.

Jim Livengood's realistic list looked like this:

1. Cal
2. Pitino
3. Floyd
4. Miller

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
 

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Does this also mean that Memphis wasn't in the championship game a couple years ago?
 
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Russ Smith

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According to Yahoo's story, Memphis was actually notified in november of 2007 that there was something fishy with Rose's test. Memphis could have chosen to suspend him at that time but instead they said they had 4 separate individuals question Rose, with neither Calipari nor the AD present.
Rose told all 4 of them he had taken his own test.

Memphis decided that was enough and didn't suspend him.

They also said the Clearinghouse cleared him twice, once initially, and then again after memphis self reported that a HS grade had been changed.

So I guess we're starting to see why memphis got probation too, if they had any reason to suspect Rose may have cheated and didn't act on it, they have to take some responsibility.

Rose said he feels satisfaction that the NCAA found no wrongdoing on his part, which is ridiculous, all that means is the NCAA didn't name teh player. Everyone knows it's Rose so why bother to make such a silly statement?
 

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This is why the one-and-done rule is stupid. Rose was good enough to come out of high school; everybody knew he was a one-year player. The NCAA got revenue out of him playing at Memphis; he got exposure and was still the #1 pick. If you ask me both sides made out.
 

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This is why the one-and-done rule is stupid. Rose was good enough to come out of high school; everybody knew he was a one-year player. The NCAA got revenue out of him playing at Memphis; he got exposure and was still the #1 pick. If you ask me both sides made out.

I'm sure this is great comfort to UCLA.
 
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Russ Smith

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I'm sure this is great comfort to UCLA.

To be honest that doesn't bug me all that much. The primary reason is that there is so much money in NCAA basketball that it's impossible to know for sure that any team is clean. Much as I would love to believe UCLA was a clean team and memphis cheated, it's impossible to be sure. There are too many wealthy alums, agents etc who do this sort of stuff.

I would say in the case of Memphis this not really an accident it's a byproduct of letting Calipari operate the way they did. When you let the coach steer bad students to prepschools to get them eligible and field a team the way memphis did for years, you're essentially telling the coach just win, we don't care how. I have no doubt Calipari knew about the situation with Rose if not was involved in setting it up.

Does it suck that UCLA lost to a team that had an ineligible player, yes, but they still could have won that game on the court.

Tough situation all around. This goes back to why the NCAA is being so hard on Renardo Sidney, they know Mayo and Rose got away with it getting to play a year, they don't want that to happen again.
 
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Russ Smith

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Did they lose to Memphis or something? I don't generally watch college hoops.

Memphis beat UCLA in the final 4 before blowing a lead to Kansas and losing in the final. you could very easily argue that the difference in the UCLA/Memphis game was Derrick Rose.

Rose had 25 points, 9 rebounds 4 assists and completely dominated Darren Collison who simply couldn't guard Rose. Memphis was the better team but if you take Rose out of the game I think it's a much closer game.

Doesn't mean UCLA would have beaten Kansas, they beat them the year before but I think you could argue both teams were better in 07 than 06 so it would have been a tough game. As a UCLA fan I don't see any point in complaining, they had their chance on the court and lost.
 
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Russ Smith

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I would also add that entire season has to be somewhat troublesome for the NCAA. You had Mayo and Rose and all their nonsense, there are still strong rumors about Beasley getting cash to go to K State that have never gone anywhere. Eric Gordon went to IU because Sampson hired 2 coaches close to him, that year was REALLY bad for shady actions by college teams.

Then you have an NC game where memphis used one and possibly 2 ineligible players (Dozier) and it's still not clear that Kansas didn't use an ineligible player in ARthur. I know the official Texas HS investigation cleared Arthur and said they found no evidence of wrongdoing but all you have to do is ask the math teacher involved and he'll tell you that the grades on Arthur's transcripts were not the grades he gave him. Below is a cut and paste from station WFAA Channel 8 in Dallas done by Brett Shipp in May of 2008.

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"Former South Oak Cliff math teacher Winford Ashmore said Arthur had a history of trouble in math. He showed us his 2002 grade book for freshman math in which Arthur was making weekly failing grades: 45, 25 and 24.

Ashmore said then-principal Donald Moten, and current head basketball coach James Mays Jr., both asked him to bypass the rules and award Arthur a passing grade.

"Darrell was still failing, and was not making much of an effort in class, and was not coming to tutoring,” Ashmore said. “So at that point I ensured Moten — as well as James Mays Jr. — that Darrell Arthur was going to get an F for the six weeks."

Days later, without teacher approval, Arthur was dropped from Ashmore's class. And despite those low grades, transcripts reflect Arthur received a passing grade of 70.

In the Spring of 2003, school records show Arthur failed math again with a 64. But those records also show that in January of 2005 — two years later — Principal Moten signed off on changing that failing grade to a passing grade of 72.

The reason given for the grade change, according to records: "Teacher bubbled (the grade) incorrectly."

But district policy states: "Errors in student grades must be corrected within ten days after the grading period ends."


Principal Donald Moten is no longer with the Dallas ISD. He resigned following the News 8 — and subsequent internal DISD — investigation into grade-changing during the 2006 championship season.

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As you can see there were at least 2 instances where Arthur's final grade in a class were changed. one without explanation, one in violation of district policy. And the Principal responsible for the grade changes quit when the district investigated grade changing with the 2006 team that also won state. That team had to forfeit their wins due to the grade changing. Then the Arthur case came up from the year BEFORE.

I suspect the difference is the NCAA believes Kansas didn't know Arthur was ineligible, and they feel Memphis did know about Rose. But I think ultimately the difference is the Texas HS folks cleared Arthur without ever bothering to explain why they were allowed to vioalate district rules in changing his grades. In fact last time I heard not only had they not explained how they ruled nothing wrong happened, they were actually pursuing disciplinary actions against the math teacher for disclosing Arthur's grades to the media which violated privacy rules. Yes he violated rules but he did it because he knew the grades had been changed, he did it to expose a problem at the school.

I think the best team won it on the court that year and any other questions are just impossible to answer.
 

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