NBA to vote on new draft lottery system

pokerface

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
5,369
Reaction score
807
I think this tanking stuff is overblown. I don't think the league is rampant with teams tanking. Plus the teams that tank are punished with lousy half empty arena's. Plus the lotto order already has an element of chance to it. Wtf is the big problem that needs addressing?? Truth be told if the suns were not looking for a high draft pick and didn't tank I wouldn't have watched near as much NBA games. If they monkey around with those rules it will have unintended consequences....mark my words.

Also, if they change the rules then they better do a hard salary cap where EVERY team has to work with a set amount of money and can't go over. The only thing they're doing is favoring big market teams!!
 

pokerface

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
5,369
Reaction score
807
If they wanted to be brilliant about it they would go the other direction. Make the draft order according to the record. Let teams out stink each other...THEN you have more interest with the bottom dweller teams and their fans. More tv viewers would be watching the games I bet...more drama. I mean if we knew the suns would lose a particular game and get the next Lebron I think we would be fixated...no?

:shocker:
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,131
Reaction score
6,564
You know somehow this will come back to hurt the Suns when they are bad.
Yes. It always does. The old system was fine as long as teams could not do it year after year. The rule about not picking top 3 in consecutive years would solve this.

They also need a franchise tag.
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
21,148
Reaction score
13,946
I like it. Not letting a team pick in the top 3 year after year would be great
 

BillsCarnage

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Posts
5,827
Reaction score
1,197
Location
The Flip Side
You know somehow this will come back to hurt the Suns when they are bad.
This is the fine print for any and all draft lottery scenario rules in the NBA.

* Under no circumstances or lottery format are the Phoenix Suns ever allowed to receive the #1 overall pick. No exceptions.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
90,854
Reaction score
42,828
This year is going to be another tankathon with teams angling to try and get Bagley,Porter and Ayton.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
19,433
Reaction score
15,452
Location
Tempe, AZ
The only thing I really like in this proposal isn't actually included in it but the suggestion that they adopt a no picking in the top 3 in consecutive years. Hopefully that is taken into consideration and added. I'd go a little further also, saying that a team that picks #1 overall can't pick in the top 3 for the next 3 years with the highest pick they'd be able to get lowering each season. So the following season they'd be able to pick no higher than #4, the following they'd be allowed no higher than #3, then no higher than #2, then all restrictions lifted.

I still think the best system is one where teams plays for the #1 overall pick. There have been a few proposals to do that over the years, everything from going to a points system somewhat like the NHL or having a tournament of sorts. I think a point system is the best way and could create interest in bad teams towards the end of the year.

My favorite was once a team was mathematically eliminated from the playoffs they start earning points for each win from that point forward and whoever has the most points at the end of the year gets the #1 pick and other picks are ordered accordingly. So the slotting of picks would be similar to how they are now, with the teams who are the worst throughout the year up until the halfway point of the season or so having the best chance to rack up points since they'd have more games to do so and teams who are fighting for the playoffs will end up at the very bottom of the lottery because they may not earn any points because they stay in playoff contention all season. Sure, a team may tank the first half of the season but then they'd have to turn things around to start winning once they were eliminated from the playoffs to get that #1 pick. That would cause teams who are bad to try and keep their players at the trade deadline rather than selling off assets to further tank, which may slow down player movement. There would be a lot less buyouts at the end of February of veterans on bad teams who then sign onto playoff teams. It would keep bad teams from sitting healthy players to tank also.

So if the Suns were eliminated from the playoff race in early March, they'd have to try and win as many games throughout the rest of the season to get the #1 pick. If 2-3 other teams are already collecting points then that just means they sucked more during the first half of the year but it makes no guarantee they'd actually have more points than the Suns then, they'd just have more chances at them. They'd have to start competing and winning though to get the #1 seed. There would be no guarantees where anyone would fall and it would bring interest to teams who sucked early in the season because they'd have something to play for. The only problem I see with that is a discrepancy between conferences, a bad team in the east could still be in playoff contention because the East sucks and you can make the playoffs with a losing record. However they could change the seeding in the playoffs to the top 16 teams go, like it should be, rather than seeing a team win 48 games and miss the playoffs in the West while a team out east wins 37 games and makes it in the East.
 
Last edited:

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
65,799
Reaction score
61,743
Location
SoCal
The only thing I really like in this proposal isn't actually included in it but the suggestion that they adopt a no picking in the top 3 in consecutive years. Hopefully that is taken into consideration and added. I'd go a little further also, saying that a team that picks #1 overall can't pick in the top 3 for the next 3 years with the highest pick they'd be able to get lowering each season. So the following season they'd be able to pick no higher than #4, the following they'd be allowed no higher than #3, then no higher than #2, then all restrictions lifted.

I still think the best system is one where teams plays for the #1 overall pick. There have been a few proposals to do that over the years, everything from going to a points system somewhat like the NHL or having a tournament of sorts. I think a point system is the best way and could create interest in bad teams towards the end of the year.

My favorite was once a team was mathematically eliminated from the playoffs they start earning points for each win from that point forward and whoever has the most points at the end of the year gets the #1 pick and other picks are ordered accordingly. So the slotting of picks would be similar to how they are now, with the teams who are the worst throughout the year up until the halfway point of the season or so having the best chance to rack up points since they'd have more games to do so and teams who are fighting for the playoffs will end up at the very bottom of the lottery because they may not earn any points because they stay in playoff contention all season. Sure, a team may tank the first half of the season but then they'd have to turn things around to start winning once they were eliminated from the playoffs to get that #1 pick. That would cause teams who are bad to try and keep their players at the trade deadline rather than selling off assets to further tank, which may slow down player movement. There would be a lot less buyouts at the end of February of veterans on bad teams who then sign onto playoff teams. It would keep bad teams from sitting healthy players to tank also.

So if the Suns were eliminated from the playoff race in early March, they'd have to try and win as many games throughout the rest of the season to get the #1 pick. If 2-3 other teams are already collecting points then that just means they sucked more during the first half of the year but it makes no guarantee they'd actually have more points than the Suns then, they'd just have more chances at them. They'd have to start competing and winning though to get the #1 seed. There would be no guarantees where anyone would fall and it would bring interest to teams who sucked early in the season because they'd have something to play for. The only problem I see with that is a discrepancy between conferences, a bad team in the east could still be in playoff contention because the East sucks and you can make the playoffs with a losing record. However they could change the seeding in the playoffs to the top 16 teams go, like it should be, rather than seeing a team win 48 games and miss the playoffs in the West while a team out east wins 37 games and makes it in the East.
I think I like everything about your proposal!
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
19,433
Reaction score
15,452
Location
Tempe, AZ
I think I like everything about your proposal!

I thought it was something Bill Simmons came up with but in trying to find the article I thought he wrote where I initially heard about it, I discovered it wasn't from him. It came from a Ph.D. candidate in statistics named Adam Gold from the University of Missouri and was presented at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in 2012. You can watch his presentation here, it's only 20 minutes and he presents it as a solution for all professional sports, not limited to the NBA, NHL, MLB, or NFL.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/content/how-to-cure-tanking/

There's a few articles out there from around 2012 when he presented it that discuss the positives, here is a link to one with Business Insider. I personally can't think of any big drawbacks to it myself. It wasn't created for any sport specifically so each sport would have other factors to take into account, like with the NBA it doesn't factor in things like bad teams buying out veterans midseason so they can sign with playoff teams but I think that would be one of the side effects that would be a welcome change by fans. I don't like how there are typically a dozen or so players waived in late February, all bought out by bad teams, to sign with contenders for their playoff runs. They aren't top free agents but they're quality role players that get added that make contenders that much stronger. Players might actually get claimed off of waivers if every team was competing throughout the whole year. There are 82 games in a year and this doesn't add any extra games but makes all of them mean something.

I think this is where I read about it first, there are a number of proposals to fix the tanking issue within the NBA listed, like the wheel idea and also tournaments but I think this is by far the best method to stop tanking and improve the quality of play throughout the season.

It's listed after the header "Finishing Strong"....

Improving the NBA’s Competitive Balance by Fixing the NBA Draft

Here's the excerpt on it...

Another proposal, let’s call it the Gold Proposal, would look at the records for the non-playoff teams after they were eliminated from the playoffs and give the team with the best record the first pick and the team with the worst record the fourteenth pick. Alternatively, one could use the records of the non-playoff teams for the second half of the season (the last forty-one games). The goal of this proposal is to ensure that each team competes hard for playoff spots through the end of the season, or continues to compete for wins even after getting eliminated from contention.

Essentially, either your team makes the playoffs or just misses but finishes with a strong second half of the season finish and is rewarded with a high pick. This generates fan excitement over a longer period because fans are engaged with the second half of the season playoff push. It also would eliminate the tension between fans rooting for their teams to win and rooting for their teams to get higher draft picks, aligning the two interests together.

The glaring fault of this system is that truly bad teams, which have no chance to accumulate a strong record in either half of the season, would be entrenched as cellar-dwellers, never being good enough to get high picks, and therefore never improving enough in the draft to get better and eventually get better picks or make the playoffs. It also would merely shift the timeframe within which teams would tank from the entire season to the first half of the season. Borderline playoff teams knowing they would get eliminated in the first round but seeking a high draft pick could tank their way out of the playoff picture during the first half of the season, then have a fantastic second half of the season to earn a high pick.
 

Errntknght

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
6,342
Reaction score
319
Location
Phoenix
Good ideas there Kingdad! But one needs to be a little careful about doing away with Conferences and Divisions, which is what seeding the top 16 teams into the playoffs does. After all, the reason for them is to create more interest by having some meaning to winning a Division or a Conference. I know it seems 'unfair' in the abstract, like the example you cited, but as long as the rules are agreed upon by all, it's not unfair to abide by them. I'm not opposed to the idea of one uniform league but it also forces another change - in the scheduling. Currently the teams play the teams in their own Conferences and Divisions more than others which adds to rivalries - again more interest generated.

I do think if you go to points system once mathematically eliminated you have to go to a single unified league because otherwise you'll have the stronger conference getting the better picks so increasing the imbalance. That happens because in the stronger conference teams get eliminated earlier so have more opportunities to build their point total - and they're probably better teams anyway. Once you do away with
Conferences parity is not an issue, except for large market vs. small market.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
19,433
Reaction score
15,452
Location
Tempe, AZ
You can keep divisions but eliminating conferences might not be a bad thing. Purists and long time fans would probably be opposed to that but it's a small price to pay, IMO. The playoffs would be better, with better teams in them in the lower seeds. Ultimately if they moved to get rid of conferences to ensure the 16 best teams made the playoffs as well as shaking things up with a points system to make all games matter and eliminate tanking then I think that's a small price to pay.
 

Dude

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Posts
5,976
Reaction score
1,190
Location
OR.
Yes. It always does. The old system was fine as long as teams could not do it year after year. The rule about not picking top 3 in consecutive years would solve this.

They also need a franchise tag.

This.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
123,212
Reaction score
63,672
You can keep divisions but eliminating conferences might not be a bad thing. Purists and long time fans would probably be opposed to that but it's a small price to pay, IMO. The playoffs would be better, with better teams in them in the lower seeds. Ultimately if they moved to get rid of conferences to ensure the 16 best teams made the playoffs as well as shaking things up with a points system to make all games matter and eliminate tanking then I think that's a small price to pay.

Even if they kept conferences and divisions, determining playoff match-ups based on won/loss records would be a huge improvement. Winning a division should be good for only one thing, a banner.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
19,433
Reaction score
15,452
Location
Tempe, AZ
Yes. It always does. The old system was fine as long as teams could not do it year after year. The rule about not picking top 3 in consecutive years would solve this.

They also need a franchise tag.

I like that idea but doesn't the new CBA give the team that drafted a player the ability to hold onto them now with larger raises annually? I remember that being something that came into play with Cousins being traded, he lost out on about $30 million dollars because the extension the Kings could offer was more than any other team. Even though he was traded with his bird rights only the first team he played for could offer the higher annual raises. That may only be for max players but it should extend to all players, allowing teams that draft a player to give them 5% more in raises each season compared to if they are traded elsewhere. Also have that money be forfeited in a trade so a player couldn't just hang around to get their highest possible contract and then demand a trade.
 

Ronin

Captain obvious
Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Posts
151,630
Reaction score
71,889
Location
Crowley, TX
Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account@wojespn 4m4 minutes ago




Sources: Proposed reform would start w/ 2019 Draft. Among changes, three worst teams would share a 14 percent chance at No. 1 overall pick.
 

Ronin

Captain obvious
Super Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Posts
151,630
Reaction score
71,889
Location
Crowley, TX
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
28,156
Reaction score
11,185
Location
L.A. area
Sources: Proposed reform would start w/ 2019 Draft. Among changes, three worst teams would share a 14 percent chance at No. 1 overall pick.

What sense does this make? Now it makes it even easier for a bad team to tank, because they only have to get to the bottom three, not the absolute bottom.
 
Top