Mitch Mock V. 3.0

[az jam]

McElroy, Locker, Ponder, Dalton, Stanzi and Kaepernick are the announced qbs for the Senior Bowl. Their practices start on Monday. The big 3 (Gabbert, Newton & Mallert) are juniors and therefore won't be at the Senior Bowl.

It will be interesting to watch how these seniors perform as it will impact their ratings.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I could easily see Locker or Mallet being there in round 2.

 

[Cardiac]

Here's what I mean by "intriguing" 5th round draft choices: From the year 2000 through 2009 there have been 67 QB's chosen in the 5th through 7th rounds. Four have had varying levels of success (T. Brady, M. Bulger, T. Romo, and M. Cassel). SIXTY-THREE have bombed to varying degrees...but hey...maybe the Cards will get lucky and land a real gem like the Steelers did when they drafted Brian St. Pierre in the 5th round of the 03 draft. Or they could really hit the nail on the head and draft a real sleeper like the Ravens did in the 6th round of the 05 draft like Derek Anderson.

Some more great research that illustrates getting a good QB late in the draft is like hitting the lottery.

If the Cards FO doesn't like any of the QB's in this draft then I will defer to their judgement. If this is the case then trading down is a great option if we can make it happen. I really don't want us spending a draft pick on a QB after rd1 since they almost never pan out. We have enough unproven young QB's on the roster to work with, don't add another shot in the dark one to the mix.

There are far more excellent pass rushers then have been found in later rds then QB's. If we have a QB graded close to one of the pass rushers then go with the QB with the #5 pick.

 

[Duckjake]

Your line of thinking here is very Cardinalesque and highly flawed IMHO. Pick up a veteran QB on the cheap i.e. Bulger and back him up with a couple of "intriguing" 5th round bench-warmers. Sounds real good.

Here's what I mean by "intriguing" 5th round draft choices: From the year 2000 through 2009 there have been 67 QB's chosen in the 5th through 7th rounds. Four have had varying levels of success (T. Brady, M. Bulger, T. Romo, and M. Cassel). SIXTY-THREE have bombed to varying degrees...but hey...maybe the Cards will get lucky and land a real gem like the Steelers did when they drafted Brian St. Pierre in the 5th round of the 03 draft. Or they could really hit the nail on the head and draft a real sleeper like the Ravens did in the 6th round of the 05 draft like Derek Anderson.

Just because you whiff the first time, a la Leinart, doesn't mean you go gun shy from there on out. If your picking in the top ten of a draft and there is a QB who is even close to that level...YOU TAKE HIM!

Matt Hasselbeck 6th round- 4 consecutive Division Titles and a SB appearance. Romo wasn't drafted so you add him with Warner as UDFA's.

I would bet that you could find the same ratio of success to failure for every position involving 5-7th round picks and for first round picks.

Sure you want a guy in the first round because that usually means he normally is considered an exceptional talent but you don't want to reach for a 3rd or 4th round talent in the first round just because first round QBs have been more successful.

That's how you end up with JRussell and Quinn and Young and Leinart and Losman and Carr.....and with millions in wasted dollars.

The Cardinals have never had any real success with any QB they've drafted in any round other than a little with Lomax and in 1998 with Plummer, both 2nd round selections. Every single time they have drafted a QB in the first round it has turned into a disaster. Of course almost all their first round draft picks have been disasters.

 

[Snakester]

Rugby (and everyone):

What do you think of TE Kyle Rudolph of Notre Dame?

Did any of you see the 95 yard TD he had against Michigan late in the game? That was impressive. He run straight up the seam, snagged the ball cleanly and outran the secondary. He doesn't look exceptionally fast..but on that play he was motoring.

I like him a lot...but I am pretty sure we would have to take him at #38 because it would be surprising if he made it to #69.

I feel like there are so many real good defensive players at #38, that taking a defensive player there is the priority. But, if we could pick up another pick or two...maybe we would could take Rudolph early.

I also like TE D.J. Williams of Arkansas...I wish he was little taller is all. But for hands and RAC...he's a real good one. Would not be my choice at #38 and sveral of the mocks I've seen have him going late 2nd early 3rd before the Cardinals pick at #69.

I would really like to get Kyle Rudolph in the second if we could trade down in the first and have and extra second rounder. We need a TE badly and Rudolph is the next Jason Whitten type TE only I think he will be a bit more of an open field threat.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Aldon Smith is explosive...no question...but, when you watch him on tape, he's a read and react guy...he has a hitch in his first step...which might be corrected. I rarely saw him explode off the ball...he did his exploding to the ball after he had stood up to see where the play was going. In the NFL he won't have as much time or leverege to do that.

When I watched Houston...his first step is amazing. Plus, he's been a stand up OLB...whereas Smith has been a hand down DE and DT. Again, Smith may adjust to the switch very well. Plus, having played with his hand down, he'd be ready to play as the RDE in the 4 man nickel rush.

You have to be impressed with Quinn as well.

If we come away with Houston, Smith or Quinn, I will be very happy.

Those are three guys I'd be targeting as well, though I like them in a different order.

I like Quinn the best, I think he plays through blocks very well. His build just screams stud 3-4 OLB. He's fluid, strong and has a very good burst to the QB. IMO without the red flags, he's my favorite player in the draft for us. I can see the reservations with him, but I would gamble on his greatness.

Houston isn't quite as strong as Quinn, but he's got a quicker first step. He's also a real fluid player but his transition into playing a full out 3-4 wouldn't be as smooth as Quinn. He still really like his long term potential and wouldn't be upset if we traded down into the teens and took him.

I like Aldon Smith 3rd, mainly because he doesn't look too fluid. He's strong as and ox and fast, but he looks a bit stiff in the hips. IMO he'd end up the worst of the 3 in coverage. But he's right there with Houston in my books and would be an option if we traded down.

As for your mock, you had me with Houston, but lost me with Wilkerson. He's not a need, and teams DO NOT generally draft players that aren't needs that high. One of the few places that I think we're set at is on the defensive line, and I can't see this team drafting anyone in the first 3 rounds.

Also I agree we get fleeced in this trade. Adding all those midround picks just because you like those players is questionable. It may work on paper but the likelihood that any of those players would be available is dubious.

I also agree the chances of getting McNabb are near zero. When the team was questioned about it earlier, they emphatically stated they had no interest last offseason. With the recent comments by Somers and Urban, I think it's quite obvious we won't bring him in. He's also a very poor fit for our offense. IMO guys like Bulger, Orton, and Smith are much more likely and would do better in our system ceteris parabis.

 

[Gandhi]

I could easily see Locker or Mallet being there in round 2.

Not Locker, no way. He has too much raw, athletic potential. Some coach is going to believe he can coach him up.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I could easily see Locker or Mallet being there in round 2.

No way Mallet will be. He's got way too good an arm to fall that far. IMO he's got the best arm I've seen in many years, and he's very underrated. If we took him at #5 I wouldn't be upset.

Locker IMO could be, but I wouldn't touch him even with a 3rd rounder. He's terrible; he hasn't shown any of the traits that you look for in a college QB. Good QBs can win with even bad teams in college. Locker hasn't really been a winner and has never completed 60% of his passes, the benchmark for a successful NFL QB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not Locker, no way. He has too much raw, athletic potential. Some coach is going to believe he can coach him up.

LOL

Locker is a loser (not character, but on the field) and a terrible passer.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I would really like to get Kyle Rudolph in the second if we could trade down in the first and have and extra second rounder. We need a TE badly and Rudolph is the next Jason Whitten type TE only I think he will be a bit more of an open field threat.

I like Rudolph as well.

IMO if we got a pass rusher in Round 1, it wouldn't be imprudent to draft a TE round 2. But we haven't seen any indication that a TE is more than an afterthought in this offense and I'm concerned that adding a TE high or signing a big time FA (Miller or Lewis) would be a waste.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I also like TE D.J. Williams of Arkansas...I wish he was little taller is all. But for hands and RAC...he's a real good one. Would not be my choice at #38 and sveral of the mocks I've seen have him going late 2nd early 3rd before the Cardinals pick at #69.

Williams looks a bit too small for the NFL as a full time TE. He's more of an H-Back prospect IMO. I like Weslye Saunders more if you're talking about true TE prospects out of the SEC. He was suspended from the team last year, but he's got great size and is a very good receiver.

 

[Gandhi]

LOL

Locker is a loser (not character, but on the field) and a terrible passer.

You won't hear any arguments from me. Though I do think he would be decent in the 2nd round.

Anyway, I was just pointing out that someone will probably think he can coach Locker up the be the next great thing. Coaches thinks way too much of themselves.

 

[Seandonic]

Matt Hasselbeck 6th round- 4 consecutive Division Titles and a SB appearance. Romo wasn't drafted so you add him with Warner as UDFA's.

I would bet that you could find the same ratio of success to failure for every position involving 5-7th round picks and for first round picks.

Sure you want a guy in the first round because that usually means he normally is considered an exceptional talent but you don't want to reach for a 3rd or 4th round talent in the first round just because first round QBs have been more successful.

That's how you end up with JRussell and Quinn and Young and Leinart and Losman and Carr.....and with millions in wasted dollars.

The Cardinals have never had any real success with any QB they've drafted in any round other than a little with Lomax and in 1998 with Plummer, both 2nd round selections. Every single time they have drafted a QB in the first round it has turned into a disaster. Of course almost all their first round draft picks have been disasters.

My criteria was 2000 through 2009 so I did not list Matt Hasselbeck seeing as he was drafted in 1998.

You are right about Romo. I should not have added him as a draft pick which only helps my point...make that 3 QB's drafted in the fifth through seventh round to have success and not 4.

As far as Kurt Warner, he also does not meet the criteria seeing as he went undrafted way back in 1994.

 

[Seandonic]

Sure...if there is a QB at #5 that you are convinced is your franchise QB, YOU TAKE HIM!

Who is your pick?

Gabbert?

Mallett?

Newton?

One of them might be selected by the Bills at #3...it would seem Gabbert fits their style the best of the three.

Can you state definitively that Mallett or Newton is clearly head and shoulders better than John Skelton?

If you can and are certain of it then YOU TAKE HIM!

I am not convinced of it---

At the same time, when are we ever going to get an edge rusher who makes our 34 defense legit?

Here lies the conundrum.

At #5...if you take a QB...you are passing on the likes of Robert Quinn, Justin Houston, Aldon Smith and Von Miller. All top end speed rushers, the kind of which the Cardinals do not have on the roster and haven't had the past 4 years.

Problem is NONE of them will be available at #38...they will be snatched up and long gone.

The best you could hope for at #38 is a rusher like Jabaal Sheard...who is a bull rusher, not a speed guy. Good player for the strong side (and he'd be great to have opposite a true speed guy)...but he also has to convert from 43 DE to 34 SOLB...which will take time.

You could say well we could sign Kamerion Wimbley...but...with no free agency in sight before the draft, you have no idea whether you have a shot at signing him or not.

I want McNabb as the veteran signee, not Bulger. I think McNabb would be re-energized in Arizona. Just the same, I am high on John Skelton. And I believe that Greg McElroy is a winner---not the flashiest young QB on the block---but unlike Gabbert, Mallett and Newton, McElroy played in a pro style offense, which makes him more pro ready tha the others. So the combination of McNabb, Skelton and McElroy would suit me just fine---and at the same time we can finally start to fix this defense---make it a true 34---one that can start to win games, not lose them.

To answer your question as to who I would pick at QB, I have to say I just don't know yet and will not until after the combine. However, I will say that I believe that there will be a QB available at the #5 overall pick or later in the first round who the Cards should take.

I wouldn't mind if the Cards chose to trade back either and pick up an extra pick or two as long as they targeted a QB with a remaining first round pick.

You are certainly right in stating that the Cards have created quite a conundrum at the OLB spot (among others). We'll just have to watch how the off-season greedy labor garbage plays out before any definitive statements can be made on free-agency. However, I believe that the linebacker position falls into a secondary role to QB when it comes to this team regaining success. I would suggest the old saying of not putting the cart (LB) before the horse (QB) applies here.

I'm sorry if I insinuated that you wanted Bulger as the veteran QB pick-up. I really just used him as an example of a popular vet choice and not yours in particular.

I think your use of the word conundrum is very apropos when it comes to this entire off-season. To be honest with you, if the Cards ended up with your suggested QB line-up (McNabb, Skelton, and McElroy) and a couple of top flight OLB's I would be a little upset but pleased overall. It would show they were trying which would be a change from past years I remember.

Peace, and stay warm in the "bay state".

 

[Duckjake]

My criteria was 2000 through 2009 so I did not list Matt Hasselbeck seeing as he was drafted in 1998.

You are right about Romo. I should not have added him as a draft pick which only helps my point...make that 3 QB's drafted in the fifth through seventh round to have success and not 4.

As far as Kurt Warner, he also does not meet the criteria seeing as he went undrafted way back in 1994.

It is really hard to have any success when you never get a chance to play or even get many reps in practice.

Look at the late round/UDFA guys who have had success: Brady, got his chance when Bledsoe got hurt. Warner, Green and then Leinart got hurt. Cassell, Brady got hurt, Romo was on the verge of being cut when Quincy Carter got busted. Hasselbeck got back the starters job when Dilfer got hurt.
Schaub when Vick missed a game.

Unlike other 5-7 round picks QBs don't get a chance to show their stuff on special teams and so have few chances other than late in pre season games against other late round picks to show their stuff and so spend most of their careers on the sideline throwing few if any passes in live action for years.

Of course also like other 5-7 round picks they aren't usually the best talent obviously.

 

[ARodg]

As of right now, Houston is a reach that you'd pull your hamstring going for. You'd be much better off trading even farther back and looking to pick up a 2nd to go along with that 1st