Let’s Stop Pretending That Pitchers Can Hit

[Weenus O'Baggins]

What I really dislike about the DH is the impact on small market teams. You want to slot a big bat into that DH spot, which requires you to pay for a big bat.

I would want a real salary cap before I want a DH for this reason.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Much more strategy involved without a DH. I prefer NL style versus AL.

With that said, the players union would never allow the DH to go away. It’s here to stay and I think it’s only inevitable that it will become apart of the NL.

Exactly because it leads to big contracts.

 

[DWKB]

Much more strategy involved without a DH. I prefer NL style versus AL.

I've posted evidence several times that this isn't really true unless you define "strategy" under a very specific set of parameters. Essentially gaming the definition to fit the pre-conceived conclusion.

 

[Dback Jon]

What I really dislike about the DH is the impact on small market teams. You want to slot a big bat into that DH spot, which requires you to pay for a big bat.

I would want a real salary cap before I want a DH for this reason.

I agree with this

 

[BC867]

Much more strategy involved without a DH. I prefer NL style versus AL.

With that said, the players union would never allow the DH to go away. It’s here to stay and I think it’s only inevitable that it will become apart of the NL.

As I've posted before, I have opposed the DH in the NL since its inception. But, with the exception of one country, it is universal, not only throughout the world, but in schools and the Minor Leagues throughout the US.

That being the case, it puts National League teams at a disadvantage compared to the American League and it is in the best interest of the NL to get on board.

American League teams staff their rosters for nine hitting positions and don't have to remove a Pitcher who is doing well for a hitter.

National League teams use a non-regular bench player for the DH when necessary and are forced to remove a Pitcher who is doing well.

It puts my favorite league, the National League at a disadvantage.

As much as it pains me to to say that, it is time to make the odds even.

 

[DWKB]

National League teams use a non-regular bench player for the DH when necessary and are forced to remove a Pitcher who is doing well.

This was probably a lot more true in the 1970's than the 2010's. Starting pitchers just don't go long into games like they used to so that late inning decision to PH has pretty much been removed.

In fact, from 2008-2016 NL starters have avg more IP per start than AL starters in 4 of the 8 years and 11 of the 21 years from 1995 to 2016.

 

[BC867]

This was probably a lot more true in the 1970's than the 2010's. Starting pitchers just don't go long into games like they used to so that late inning decision to PH has pretty much been removed.

In fact, from 2008-2016 NL starters have avg more IP per start than AL starters in 4 of the 8 years and 11 of the 21 years from 1995 to 2016.

'Interesting. Thanks. There is still the differential in a DH swinging for the gaps with runners on base early in a game vs. a NL pitcher giving up an out to advance runners a base by bunting.

 

[DWKB]

Death of the hitting pitcher? MLB's Rob Manfred hints at progress on universal DH

Major League Baseball has moved methodically to eliminate many distinctions between the American and National leagues in recent years, and Thursday, Commissioner Rob Manfred indicated there is momentum toward perhaps the most significant such move: a unified designated hitter.

"I think that is a continuing source of conversation among the ownership group and I think that the dialogue actually probably moved a little bit,” said Manfred at the conclusion of the quarterly owners' meeting on Thursday.

The AL has employed the DH since 1973. The NL has not adopted it.

This season, pitchers are hitting a modest .112, and while fans enjoy the occasional rush of a Max Scherzer or Madison Bumgarner surprisingly driving in a run, pitchers are exposed to injury at the plate or basepaths - witness the hamstring injury suffered in an intraleague game that sent Yankees pitcher Masahiro Tanaka to the disabled list.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-designated-hitter-universal-al-nl/702738002/

 

[Dback Jon]

I agree it will be inevitable - only because the lack of hitting and specialization that the pitchers get throughout their careers has the effect of poorer and poorer hitting pitchers.

 

[unseenaz]

I agree it will be inevitable - only because the lack of hitting and specialization that the pitchers get throughout their careers has the effect of poorer and poorer hitting pitchers.

NL will get the DH when the NFL does away with kickoffs...

which both may actually happen sooner than later.

both changes will suck.

 

[DWKB]

NL will get the DH when the NFL does away with kickoffs...

which both may actually happen sooner than later.

both changes will suck.

I’ll never understand the joy of seeing someone fail 9 out of 10 times. It’s not why I watch baseball.

I don’t want to watch an NBA game where a player shoots 10% from the field either. Even if the coach has to “strategize” more to work around the deficient player.

 

[unseenaz]

I’ll never understand the joy of seeing someone fail 9 out of 10 times. It’s not why I watch baseball.

I don’t want to watch an NBA game where a player shoots 10% from the field either. Even if the coach has to “strategize” more to work around the deficient player.

you're comparing 2 things in a linear way that are NOT linear. bad argument

 

[DWKB]

you're comparing 2 things in a linear way that are NOT linear. bad argument

It might be a bad analogy (I don't think it is), but it's not a bad argument.

The point being, how does anyone --as a spectator of a sport possibly paying money to watch-- find enjoyment in watching a professional who is worse at a major aspect of their job than most High School Athletes?

The managers have ceased to care and the players have ceased to care because they believe that the production value of the other part of their job far outweighs the monumental failure of this part. Even those who "take pride in their hitting" don't put in the required effort to be even league average as a hitter. They are graded on a curve of low expectations.

Many fans still care though even though the people they pay to watch really don't. They keep the rule because they worry about that fan backlash, but they've really quit putting in the effort.

 

[AZCrazy]

The exorbitant cost factor for DH's needs to be kept under control for this to not only work in both leagues but retain some level of parity between bigger and smaller markets.
These guys don't play the field and all. Literally never pick up a baseball and shouldn't command huge salaries that are out of context with the rest of the players. The players union can throw up a challenge, but it really is the rank and file members of the same union who are hurt by excess money going to part timers. Then you could get several good DH's on a team.
How about two or three of them, to hit for you suckiest hitters at your discretion?

 

[Dan H]

The exorbitant cost factor for DH's needs to be kept under control for this to not only work in both leagues but retain some level of parity between bigger and smaller markets.
These guys don't play the field and all. Literally never pick up a baseball and shouldn't command huge salaries that are out of context with the rest of the players. The players union can throw up a challenge, but it really is the rank and file members of the same union who are hurt by excess money going to part timers. Then you could get several good DH's on a team.
How about two or three of them, to hit for you suckiest hitters at your discretion?

LH DH, RH DH? I kind of like the idea. Players might go for it too, if you couch it as extending the career of guys who might still be able to hit but can't necessarily play the outfield.

 

[Dback Jon]

Say What?

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2 fir 3 today, run scored, SB, RBI. Hitting .300 on the year

 

[Adrian]

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[BC867]

Torey Lovullo

"Chris Owings, Daniel Descalso and Deven Marrero have rotated around the lineup."

Two of the three (we know which two) are extremely light hitters. Owings covering five positions means nothing if he hits like a Little Leaguer.

Torey's opinion did not mention two points that I have been stressing. It is no longer based on the merits of more strategy in the NL, because NL managers are using hardly any strategy.

And the other point. Everyone except the National League and a league in Japan use the DH. Schools and minor leaguers in the U.S. do not prepare their young pitchers to hit.

It puts the National League at a disadvantage.

 

[Adrian]

Carlos Monarrez: No-brainer for National League to adopt designated hitter

https://sports.yahoo.com/m/76e103f9-88a9-3798-af01-edacb0bfe3eb/carlos-monarrez:-no-brainer.html

 

[ajcardfan]

It puts the National League at a disadvantage.

This is why NL fans should want the DH. Baseball has always evolved. Rules change. But no NL fan should want it to be harder for their team to win against the AL just for some romantic notion about tradition.

 

[AZ Native]

This is why NL fans should want the DH. Baseball has always evolved. Rules change. But no NL fan should want it to be harder for their team to win against the AL just for some romantic notion about tradition.

I don't know. Get to the World Series and bat Greinke and Corbin against their pathetic pitchers who have to hit and see what happens.

 

[Brian]

How about we stop pretending that DH's are baseball players? Because they aren't.

 

[BC867]

This is why NL fans should want the DH. Baseball has always evolved. Rules change. But no NL fan should want it to be harder for their team to win against the AL just for some romantic notion about tradition.

I changed my mind some time ago and agree, for reasons I have explained.

Like ... there is very little strategy going on in the NL anymore (other than a double switch when you have to take your pitcher out for hitting reasons); pitchers drafted into the NL have been brought up during the DH age in school and in the Minor Leagues; and it puts the NL at a disadvantage when going head to head with the AL -- they have a DH whereas the NL has to choose one from the bench.

Automobile assembly lines look a lot different than when Henry Ford designed the first one. Imagine if one auto manufacturer still used the assembly line procedure of a hundred years ago. They would hardly be competitive in today's market.