Lakers vs Celtics -2008 NBA Finals

[Irish]

I didn't see the game, so I'm curious as to how the Celtics shut down the Lakers: 33 points in the entire second half.

In the Piston series, Detroit shot 45% as did the Lakers in their first three games. That is not awfull, but hardly lockdown either. What did they do they had not been doing consistently before?

 

[justAndy]

maybe the Lakers have a chance if the Euros on their team shave and bathe.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i can't read this entire thread, but i have one comment:

this finals sucks. not because of the teams, but despite them. what i mean is this: if it weren't for the purple on one team's back and the green on the other's and we were basing our opinion purely on the play and competitiveness of the games this is putrid basketball. call it defense, but all i've seen is a ton of outside shots from the celts (okay, make that "misses") and the softness of everyone on the lakers not named kobe (and vujacic for a game). it's ugly and it's not compelling. the "stars" have mostly sucked ass too, so it's not even compelling that regard. for all the hype, this finals is not stacking up as anything more than an opportunity for a nostalgia-fest.

thoughts?

lol . . . at MYSELF. finally a game worthy of "wow." too bad (from an entertainment standpoint) that's it too late and that this series is now over (though that part is awesome - i love last night's game just a tad below any suns win ever).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kobe even implies that he is better than Jordan, hence the number 24.

he should have to wear 22 next game.

seriously, as much as i agree that kobe is one of the, if not the, best players in the game today, i have cringed every time i hear the "kobe has attained jordan status" comments. they were just silly to begin with. is his GAME similar? absolutely. does he have the drive? sure. but he's not jordan. his first team all-nba defense this year is questionable, but he's never been a perennial all-defensive teamer, much less a defensive player of the year like jordan. jordan would never have allowed last night's debacle to occur. even with the mentally soft gasol and odom jordan would not have allowed last night to occur. jordan was also always the best player on the court during his championship seasons - kobe was always #2. jordan's teams also never lost a finals, it looks like kobes will lose two of them. let's just bury this.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm not going to argue anything else, just clarify something. It isn't like Kobe is new to the All-Defensive team.

1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not going to argue anything else, just clarify something. It isn't like Kobe is new to the All-Defensive team.

1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

based mostly on playing with the most dominant big man in the game and after that reputation and reputation alone. This aspect is without a doubt the most over-rated aspect of Kobe's game.

 

[D-Dogg]

I don't agree. There aren't a lot better defensive guards overall. Forwards, yes. Not guards.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't agree. There aren't a lot better defensive guards overall. Forwards, yes. Not guards.

not a point i'll argue too strenuously because I do think Kobe CAN BE a great defensive player. I just don't think he's all that consistent. Says more about the guard play in the NBA these days more than anything else. And to show you this isn't more anti-Laker bias, I always thought it was a complete joke that Jason Kidd was an 1ST TEAM All NBA Defender when he was on the Suns, just as it was a joke that Raja was on any list this year. Reputation, especially as far as defense, which is something not as easily quantified by numbers goes a very long way in this league.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

kobe is not a great defender

the fact that phil routinely puts him on a PG where he can stand out in front of the court, press and bounce around does not make him a good defender

no way he should ever make an all defensive team - he's not terrible, but playing off guards who you have height and athleticism on who are not looking to score doesn't make you the man

 

[MigratingOsprey]

on an off note what is the deal with tags on the forum?

 

[nashman]

defending Kobe is that the new topic now that the Lakers are pretty much done again? Oh well just proves that Kobe still can't get it done without the Diesel. Kobe never even made it out of the first round until the league gave them Gasol, good luck with your big softy, can't wait for Amare to just eat him up everytime we play in the future. Looks like all that loud mouth swagger is gone now that your team got punked in historical fashion!

 

[D-Dogg]

Looks like all that loud mouth swagger is gone now that your team got punked in historical fashion!

So why do you have that loud mouth swagger?

 

[Gee!]

So why do you have that loud mouth swagger?

Because you and piss yellow gang came with it initially..

Why is this concept so hard for laker fans to follow?

 

[Covert Rain]

Now that the series is over....wonder if Kobe demands a trade or will he be content enough to see if getting Bynum back and some off season moves satisfies him.

 

[cobbler]

based mostly on playing with the most dominant big man in the game and after that reputation and reputation alone. This aspect is without a doubt the most over-rated aspect of Kobe's game.

Did you watch the FIBA games over the summer? Kobe was a tenacious defender. The difference was that he was totally concentrating on it and not having the control the offense so much.

Shaq is and never was a great defender. Terrible on the pick and roll. Only good to stay in the paint as a body. Get your facts straight.

 

[cobbler]

Now that the series is over....wonder if Kobe demands a trade or will he be content enough to see if getting Bynum back and some off season moves satisfies him.

Last i looked... it takes 4 games to win.

 

[cobbler]

I bet the Suns are on their couches laughing at this, knowing even we don't even suck enough to blow that kind of lead...maybe.

Correct...you suck enough to not even make it to the finals...in what? 20 years or so?

 

[cobbler]

Kobe even implies that he is better than Jordan, hence the number 24.

That is an outright lie. He himself said last week the MJ is the monk on top of the mountain and to stop comparing them and let him be himself. It's all media hype and the Kobe haters buy in to it.

Do not forget that MJ got his first title at Kobes current age. Why not wait till it all said and done before you want to compare players from different eras which we all know is impossible.

Why doesnt MJ get compared to the greats that came before him? You talk titles? Look to Russell. Wanna talk stats... check out the big "O".

MJ being ordained as the greatest of all time is just not accurate IMO. You cannot compare eras. Or different positions for that matter.

The greatest basketball player of all time was Wilt.... hands down.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did you watch the FIBA games over the summer? Kobe was a tenacious defender. The difference was that he was totally concentrating on it and not having the control the offense so much.

Shaq is and never was a great defender. Terrible on the pick and roll. Only good to stay in the paint as a body. Get your facts straight.

this coming from the guy saying that play against international scrubs is proof of Kobe's defensive prowess. Come on man. And who ever said Shaq was a great player? He was a space eater of epic proportions who was an intimidating presence in the paint so Kobe could gamble and do whatever he wanted because he had the largest man on the planet protecting him, much like you said above.

 

[Covert Rain]

Last i looked... it takes 4 games to win.

Last time I checked no team has come back from 3-1 deficit to win an NBA title. It's done and you know it. It could go 7 and it's done and you know it.

Dreaming is free though so you might as well indulge yourself.

 

[cobbler]

this coming from the guy saying that play against international scrubs is proof of Kobe's defensive prowess. Come on man. And who ever said Shaq was a great player? He was a space eater of epic proportions who was an intimidating presence in the paint so Kobe could gamble and do whatever he wanted because he had the largest man on the planet protecting him, much like you said above.

Proof of prowess? I was making a point that when he wants to, he can be a great defender. He just doesn't do it on a consistant basis with the Lakers. He is a top defender for a guard regardless. If you cannot agree on that, so be it.

 

[KloD]

Well, before the Gasol trade, the Lakers were first place in the west. With Bynum. They then dropped a couple of games and the Gasol trade happened. But they weren't "nothing." They were the best team in the west. Had just recently blown out New Orleans at their house by 29 points. Rolling. That's not "nothing."

Believe it however you want, but the fact is... your claim is wrong. The Suns were ahead of the Lakers the day Bynum was injured and had an even bigger lead the day of the Great Memphis Giveaway.

Bynum injured Jan. 13th:

Suns 26-15 .634
Lakers 25-17 .595

Gasol trade Feb. 1st:

Suns 33-18 .647
Lakers 28-22 .560

 

[cobbler]

Last time I checked no team has come back from 3-1 deficit to win an NBA title. It's done and you know it. It could go 7 and it's done and you know it.

Dreaming is free though so you might as well indulge yourself.

It certainly does not look good. But seeing as how with a few minor 2 or 3 minute swings the series could easily be 3-1 the other way around, I will still hope for the best. Isn't that what any real fan would do?

Neither team has played a full game. Unfortunately, the Lakers have been folding in the 3rd and late in the 4th.

I had some fears this could happen as they are a young team and sometimes you have to get there and take your medicine to know what it is that's required next time.

Laker bench is not playing up to their own standards.

Rivers has made great adjustments and PJ has not countered them. Rivers is outcouching PJ in a huge way.

Odom has come to play 20 mins a game.

Gasol and Radman should get a red cape to flaunt at thier respective opponents as they swoosh by them.

As bad as the Lakers are playing, and its BAD, they still should be 2-2 and could even have been up 3-1.

I considered making the finals a blessing for this year and would of course love a championship but never really expected them to get this far. Next year will be a big year IMO.

 

[cobbler]

Believe it however you want, but the fact is... your claim is wrong. The Suns were ahead of the Lakers the day Bynum was injured and had an even bigger lead the day of the Great Memphis Giveaway.

Bynum injured Jan. 13th:

Suns 26-15 .634
Lakers 25-17 .595

Gasol trade Feb. 1st:

Suns 33-18 .647
Lakers 28-22 .560

Is this the giveaway of the ALL STAR player everyone ******* about or the SOFTIE everyone is talking about now?

So with your numbers above you are implying the Lakers took over the Suns because they got Gasol? Though he did help, that is not at all an accurate implication. For one, Gasol missed quite a few games weeks later with his ankle injury. And even more of a factor was that the Suns dropped (rather than other teams taking them over) due to obtaining Shaq and trying to radically change their system.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Proof of prowess? I was making a point that when he wants to, he can be a great defender. He just doesn't do it on a consistant basis with the Lakers. He is a top defender for a guard regardless. If you cannot agree on that, so be it.

why don't you read what I wrote? I as much said he CAN BE a great defender but isn't consistent. However, isn't consistency part of what makes greatness in the first place?