Knockout Punch

[Mr. Boldin]

Jeff Withey is transferring according to goazcats.com

Talk about a swift blow to the nuts. I can officially say im disgusted, not at Lute, just at what is happening.

Jennings, Negedu, and Withey, our top three recruits in this class are all gone.

I will respect every player that sticks this out and makes the best out of it, because this has to be absolutely frustrating to everyone LEFT on the team.

 

[Skkorpion]

That sucks. But it's the nature of the beast today. Many, if not most, kids choose which coach to play for, not which school to represent. School loyalty is passe.

 

[hafey]

Can't blame the kids. They have to look out for #1 because you can't honestly believe the coach or school in big time college basketball is.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's the same situation the mom made it very clear that they felt like they'd been lied to for several months because they kept asking about Lute's health and would he be there and they were repeatedly told yes. Then they found out he'd stepped down when someone read it on the internet and texted Withey's mom.

I'm surprised he transferred because at this point it's too late even if UA lets him out of his LOI, he can't transfer and be eligible immediately he has to sit out.

Tough blow but you could tell from his mom's comments they were very unhappy with the situation.

 

[DWKB]

Rumors of Withey and KU are circling right now.

 

[Russ Smith]

Rumors of Withey and KU are circling right now.

Goazcats is saying it but it's the same guy that had Lavin on his top 5 coaching list.

Makes sense, if you're going to sit out a year as a transfer might as well be practicing against good bigs for that year and that would be the case at Stanford.

on Gaddy and UW, the interesting thing is UW doesn't have a scholarship for Gaddy so they're now in a situation where they either need someone to not qualify, transfer, go pro, or they're going to have to pull a ride. And they're going after Moser and Withey too.

Supposedly Pondexter wants to graduate early and try the NBA but if that doesn't pan out(he's nowhere near NBA ready) they're going to have too many scholarship players.

The situation at UA is creating some really weird situations elsewhere, UCLA is after Moser too without really having a scholarship but its' because they are assuming that Holiday will go pro.

 

[overseascardfan]

I can understand why the '09 recruits are jumping ship to a point. They feel betrayed and do not know what the future holds. But here is the problem Gaddy has committed UW who doesn't have a schollie, Moser is considering UCLA who just signed Honeycut and also don't have a schollie. As for Withey, his decision to transfer makes no sense. He might as well play this year with a fairly good team with Wise and Budinger, and next year for a big time coach. Now by transferring he will have to sit out a year.

They should just wait until the spring to see where everything is once the smoke settles. U of A is guaranteed a big name coach, especially if a guy like Calipari if he doesn't win it all this year get a large enough offer from U of A.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can understand why the '09 recruits are jumping ship to a point. They feel betrayed and do not know what the future holds. But here is the problem Gaddy has committed UW who doesn't have a schollie, Moser is considering UCLA who just signed Honeycut and also don't have a schollie. As for Withey, his decision to transfer makes no sense. He might as well play this year with a fairly good team with Wise and Budinger, and next year for a big time coach. Now by transferring he will have to sit out a year.

They should just wait until the spring to see where everything is once the smoke settles. U of A is guaranteed a big name coach, especially if a guy like Calipari if he doesn't win it all this year get a large enough offer from U of A.

UW definitely does not have a ride, but they apparently have like 3 kids in academic trouble and they're assuming they will probably pick up a ride that way is what I've read.

UCLA has a ride for Moser, we have 11 scholarship players this season and 3 seniors on the team(Collison, Aboya and Shipp). So that means 5 rides for next year and that's Lane, Nelson, Honeycutt and Stover. So there's one more ride and UCLA is still after Snaer, and now has added Moser to their target list.

Also keep in mind that virtually everyone expects Jrue Holiday to go pro after one year, I just read a scouting report that said he may be the #1 overall pick in the next draft(we'll see guys his size usually don't go #1 overall but he's really good, reports say he's already the best player UCLA has). Add in Dragovic who has turned down offers to play pro ball in Serbia the last 2 summers and you can see that having enough scholarships doesn't seem to be a problem. About the only issue I could see if Moser picked UCLA is one of the other commits might change their mind(Lane or Nelson most likely I mentioned recently a rumor about Lane but that apparently was false).

 

[DWKB]

http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/265740

Arizona did not give Jeff Withey a release to transfer, meaning the freshman center must file two successful appeals or face a string of hefty penalties before he plays at another school.
UA athletic director Jim Livengood said Tuesday he denied the request in a meeting on Monday night with Withey and his parents.
"My very simple reason is I firmly believe, as the letter of intent states, that he needs to stay a full academic year," Livengood said. "At the end of (the year) — as I told him last night — I would gladly release him if he wanted."
Withey decided to transfer less than a week after coach Lute Olson retired, but letters of intent bind incoming freshmen to a school for a year, regardless of who the coach is.
If Withey still transfers without the release from his letter of intent, and without permission to talk with other schools about transferring, he would have to sit out next season and lose one of his four years of eligibility. He would also not be allowed to receive financial aid to any school he has contact with.
Livengood did grant departing UA freshman guard Laval Lucas-Perry the necessary release last December and said only that "every situation is different." Livengood said he could not go into further details because of student privacy rules.
While Livengood could not say whether the Withey decision was related to academics, if Withey departed without being academically eligible, he could cost the Wildcats a scholarship under NCAA Academic Progress Rate guidelines.
Unless Withey decides to remain with the Wildcats, he will need to appeal both the letter of intent and the provision keeping him from receiving aid from any school he talks with. The NCAA handles letter-of-intent appeals, and financial aid issues would be reviewed on the UA campus but outside of athletics, compliance director Bill Morgan said.
Arizona already has had one 2009 basketball player successfully escape his letter of intent: Forward Emmanuel Negedu was granted a transfer in June because of UA's staff changes; he then enrolled at Tennessee.
Withey's mother, Debbie, was unavailable for comment.
UA interim head coach Russ Pennell said Tuesday he has talked to Withey "only to see how he's doing and make sure he's going to class."

Huh, seems bitter to me. Hell we let Micah Downs go and he trashed the university and the program on his myspace page while he was here. His dad was a total dick as well. Wonder how this move looks to potential recruits.

 

[Russ Smith]

http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/265740



Huh, seems bitter to me. Hell we let Micah Downs go and he trashed the university and the program on his myspace page while he was here. His dad was a total dick as well. Wonder how this move looks to potential recruits.

Yeah I am trying to understand how this can be APR related, they started classes late August, the last day to withdraw with no grade is apparently mid October, so he missed that deadline. If this is truly APR related as is being rumored, that would mean that Withey has to be academically ineligible right now? If he is one would assume it's because of the Lute situation and he may not be attending classes, thus the mention in the story that Pennell checked in to make sure he's attending classes.

Very weird situation but apparently from what you see it's completely connected to APR. That would imply that UA's APR score is already low because you have to fail to meet a cutoff before losing a scholarship becomes an issue and if Withey leaving is going to cost them a scholarship it means they're already at or below that cutoff. That's why USC was so outspoken that Mayo and Jefferson needed to stay in school, if either had dropped out and prepared for the draft, it would have cost USC more scholarships because their existing APR was so low.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I assume it is APR related, because in order for Jeff to leave the program without hurting us APR wise hehas to be in good academeic standing or leave after the first semester. Bayless left early and Lucas-Perry left last year as well. Im not sure what their academic standings were. Either way, our score has been low and will be low when the next APR scores come out. Im assuming APR is the problem and if so, this is the right move, because the UA can not afford to lose any scholarships right now.

 

[DWKB]

Well then this is a crack in the system that's been exposed. If this is the right move for the University yet can still harm them in recruiting (as I think it will in some way) there's an issue with the rule. IMO

 

[Russ Smith]

I assume it is APR related, because in order for Jeff to leave the program without hurting us APR wise hehas to be in good academeic standing or leave after the first semester. Bayless left early and Lucas-Perry left last year as well. Im not sure what their academic standings were. Either way, our score has been low and will be low when the next APR scores come out. Im assuming APR is the problem and if so, this is the right move, because the UA can not afford to lose any scholarships right now.

I see part of the point but how many scholarships does UA have after losing their 3 09 recruits? At least 3. Most teams in the Pac 10 have trouble keeping 13 in th efirst place because guys leave early. UCLA hasn't been at the max for 3-4 years now.

Stanford is an outlier but they have SIX scholarships open in their 09 class and haven't got a single commit yet. I think it's a bit hard to say that losing 1 scholarship by releasing Withey would really hurt UA right now.

It just seems a bit vindictive to me, on both sides mind you Withey's mom has made it quite clear they feel lied to and she didn't NEED to go public about that but did.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I see part of the point but how many scholarships does UA have after losing their 3 09 recruits? At least 3. Most teams in the Pac 10 have trouble keeping 13 in th efirst place because guys leave early. UCLA hasn't been at the max for 3-4 years now.

At this point assuming Budinger and Hill declare and Withey leaves, UA is left with 7 scholarship players for 09-10:

Kyle Fogg (So)
Garland Judkins (So)
Brendon Lavender (So)
Jamelle Horne (Jr)
Alex Jacobson (Jr)
Zane Johnson (Jr)
Nic Wise (Sr)

DJ Shumpert is a walk-on who was given a scholarship this year.

So that leaves 6 scholarships open for the 09 class. Assuming the next coach signs 3 guys for an '09 class. The coach would have 4 scholarships to work with for the '10 class (Wise graduating frees up the 4th). If Withey leaves and UA is punished via their APR score the new coach only has 3 scholarships to work with while recruiting for a full year.

I think its safe to say whoever the new UA coach is, he is going to need every scholarship available for the next few years to help turn this program around. Losing even 1 would be a big blow.

 

[Russ Smith]

At this point assuming Budinger and Hill declare and Withey leaves, UA is left with 7 scholarship players for 09-10:

Kyle Fogg (So)
Garland Judkins (So)
Brendon Lavender (So)
Jamelle Horne (Jr)
Alex Jacobson (Jr)
Zane Johnson (Jr)
Nic Wise (Sr)

DJ Shumpert is a walk-on who was given a scholarship this year.

So that leaves 6 scholarships open for the 09 class. Assuming the next coach signs 3 guys for an '09 class. The coach would have 4 scholarships to work with for the '10 class (Wise graduating frees up the 4th). If Withey leaves and UA is punished via their APR score the new coach only has 3 scholarships to work with while recruiting for a full year.

I think its safe to say whoever the new UA coach is, he is going to need every scholarship available for the next few years to help turn this program around. Losing even 1 would be a big blow.

I guess I'm also looking at what usually happens when a new coach takes over, kids transfer out. It's a reality that in general the new coach will have to deal with some turnover, kids that don't like the new coach, players the new coach doesn't want so they tell the kid I don't see you playing much and the kid decides to transfer etc.

UA will have a short roster so you may see less of that but look at what happened at USC when Floyd took over by the time he took the job between transfers and kids he ran off he had like 4 scholarship kids left. I don't see UA running off players, but I would expect some might transfer unless they hire a coach that everyone loves, which is hard to do.

Speaking of academic eligibility etc the CIF just ruled that Dominguez Senior Jordan Hamilton(a Texas verbal) is not eligible to play any sport, he's exhausted his eligibility it's his 5th year of HS. Tha'ts why nobody but USC in the Pac 10 was really recruiting him he's not in good academic shape and people wonder if he can't play basketball will he even bother to try and improve his academics while he's still in HS.

 

[overseascardfan]

I guess I'm also looking at what usually happens when a new coach takes over, kids transfer out. It's a reality that in general the new coach will have to deal with some turnover, kids that don't like the new coach, players the new coach doesn't want so they tell the kid I don't see you playing much and the kid decides to transfer etc.

UA will have a short roster so you may see less of that but look at what happened at USC when Floyd took over by the time he took the job between transfers and kids he ran off he had like 4 scholarship kids left. I don't see UA running off players, but I would expect some might transfer unless they hire a coach that everyone loves, which is hard to do.

Speaking of academic eligibility etc the CIF just ruled that Dominguez Senior Jordan Hamilton(a Texas verbal) is not eligible to play any sport, he's exhausted his eligibility it's his 5th year of HS. Tha'ts why nobody but USC in the Pac 10 was really recruiting him he's not in good academic shape and people wonder if he can't play basketball will he even bother to try and improve his academics while he's still in HS.

Sounds like a candidate to join Jennings in Europe.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sounds like a candidate to join Jennings in Europe.

He actually has already talked about it. USC was the only Pac 10 school still recruiting him(big surprise) when he verballed to Texas.

Rivals reported the other day that UCLA was "turning up the heat on Renardo Sidney." Because they were at a practice at his HS. Of course it turns out they were actually there scouting his teammate, Solomon Hill, who of course decommitted from UA. Looks like UCLA probably won't offer Hill, they are more interested in Mike Moser who's supposed to visit this weekend.

And Andy Brown of Mater Dei verballed to Stanford breaking the logjam there, they have 6 rides and Brown is the first kid to verbal.

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI Pennell announced today that Budinger is now the starting SG. I know I read somewhere(maybe here?) that Horne was considering transferring and I wonder if there's a connection? I know Horne is more of a 3 but had to play more of 4 last year. Maybe by moving Chase to the 2, they're creating more time for Horne at the 3 to keep him happy. With Chase offensively it won't matter at all, defensively it could be tougher on him trying to keep up with 2's but then a lot of teams start a 2 at 3 anyways so he's covered 2's before.

 

[General Chaos]

FYI Pennell announced today that Budinger is now the starting SG. I know I read somewhere(maybe here?) that Horne was considering transferring and I wonder if there's a connection? I know Horne is more of a 3 but had to play more of 4 last year. Maybe by moving Chase to the 2, they're creating more time for Horne at the 3 to keep him happy. With Chase offensively it won't matter at all, defensively it could be tougher on him trying to keep up with 2's but then a lot of teams start a 2 at 3 anyways so he's covered 2's before.

Moving Chase to SG allows the best 5 players to start. Fendi will play the 4 since he is more physical than Horne. However, I do think Horne may play some D against opposing SG's since he is quite athletic. Also now that O'Neill is gone, more zone will be used.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Huh, seems bitter to me. Hell we let Micah Downs go and he trashed the university and the program on his myspace page while he was here. His dad was a total dick as well. Wonder how this move looks to potential recruits.

All Arizona wanted Withey to do is finish out the semester (like almost every transfer in hoops does) in good academic standing so we don't get docked a schholarship for low APR. The NCAA probably wouldn't let him play at Kansas until 2nd semster next year anyways so I don't see what the problem is. Had Withey spoken with the AD before dropping out of school I'm sure an agreement could've been made that would benefit both parties but now Arizona has to protect it's own interests.

 

[Russ Smith]

All Arizona wanted Withey to do is finish out the semester (like almost every transfer in hoops does) in good academic standing so we don't get docked a schholarship for low APR. The NCAA probably wouldn't let him play at Kansas until 2nd semster next year anyways so I don't see what the problem is. Had Withey spoken with the AD before dropping out of school I'm sure an agreement could've been made that would benefit both parties but now Arizona has to protect it's own interests.

IN that case I can see their point I guess my objection is the notion that's been put out there by some UA fans(not so much here) that Withey is "trashing" UA's APR. He's not, he just happens to be the unlucky kid in the situation where if he drops, he'll be the one that triggers the lost scholarship. Obviously UA's APR is already low, if it wasn't they wouldn't be in this position.

But I do see the point in asking him to finish out the semester and stay eligible.