Kliff is a good young coach. Its just a question of if this division is too physical for his style.

SoonerLou

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Said it before 8 wins for a 2nd year coach is solid

I'm still firmly in the Kyler > Kliff camp in terms of most responsible for success this season. His running covered up a lot of holes on this team, but thats not a knock on Kliff either.

Cause I dont know if we have all the tools to really run his offense like he'd like.
But Kyler has his issues too and Kliff's dealing with it. So on the whole Kliff has done a fine job this year. He's learning on the fly and got 8 wins. Thats big.

Its just a question if we can deal with the physical teams of the division unless Kyler is truly running all over the field. Could we go back to the basics with Russell Wilson style and have Kyler as a game manager for a few years until Kyler is ready? Its possible with another coach sure.

However, I actually think what Kliff is doing works he just unfortunately has 6 games in the toughest division in football. Just not the level of knock back on this team with this defense and Oline. Meaning running the ball from traditional under center. The defense is also practices against our uptempo offense so much so I wonder if they are truly built to handle physical football.

I think Kliff wins 11 games in the NFC East, maybe 9 or 10 in the NFC South. Same could be said about the NFC North possibly.

Kliff works. Just a question if this division wears this team out or not. I dont know the answer. I know the guy who better have the answers is Keim.

Cause if we're going to be this spread team then GET HIM HORSES. If we're going that route then beef up that Oline on the interior and get a legit #2 WR. I really like Simmons he'll be good. However, that didnt so Kyler, Kliff or the offense any favors imo.

We've got no real YAC wrs for his offense and the Oline really struggles to create holes in the running game. Kyler is still just a 2nd year player so likely just not ready to carry a franchise yet.
 
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TaylorSwift

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I too am off the opinion Kliff should get a year over Kiem.

Kiem does a better job building a football team. A lot of plays missed would have been made.



But the penalties are extremely concerning.

Lack of discipline is embarrassing for professional grown ass men.

Kiem has to go, but I think the incoming GM should have a chance to evaluate what the Cardinals have in Kliff.

My problem is can MB make the right decision in GM
 
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SoonerLou

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Kliff is a good coach? Lol
His game management says otherwise. 8 years of the same crap, says otherwise
*good young coach*

The thing separating him from the McVays/Shanahan's is that they inherently have a physical nature to their offense despite a lot of creative plays. I dont think think he was dealt

Trust me I was not on this wagon before. However, poor drops in the redzone and poor execution lost us this game. I will say with less practice our lack of physicality tends to show up the following game. Just not physically ready to impose our will.

It sucks, but the spotlight is on Keim imo. He's gotta figure out how to make the pieces work. Cause as of now we dont have the firepower imo to be a finesse team like we'd prefer.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Hilarious people targeting Keim when he’s given Kliff everything he’s asked for.

They scored 12 points on a 2nd string defense.
 

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He’s not a good young coach imo. He’s not a winner & that’s my point
*good young coach*

The thing separating him from the McVays/Shanahan's is that they inherently have a physical nature to their offense despite a lot of creative plays. I dont think think he was dealt

Trust me I was not on this wagon before. However, poor drops in the redzone and poor execution lost us this game. I will say with less practice our lack of physicality tends to show up the following game. Just not physically ready to impose our will.

It sucks, but the spotlight is on Keim imo. He's gotta figure out how to make the pieces work. Cause as of now we dont have the firepower imo to be a finesse team like we'd prefer.
 
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SoonerLou

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I too am off the opinion Kliff should get a year over Kiem.

Kiem does a better job building a football team. A lot of plays missed would have been made.
I've said it before but the last two drafts were the most loaded WR drafts in history and we 0'd out. Lucky that BOB was foolish. Eventually the lack of nailing picks comes back to bite us.

If we're going to try to be the D'Antoni Suns of the NFL then you go all in. No half measures. Either Oline/wr or trade back to acquire more picks (Again Simmons is a potential beast. Just saying what I would have done)
 
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SoonerLou

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Hilarious people targeting Keim when he’s given Kliff everything he’s asked for.

They scored 12 points on a 2nd string defense.
Keim's pick Kirk drops a TD.
Keim counting on Dan Arnold at TE lost a fumble and maybe a potential TD another drive with a drop.

I know Kliff liked Isabella, but Keim makes the decision and he was inactive today.

Again Kliff has issues. However, they are magnified when we play physical teams. Right now we dont have the horsepower to overcome it. Keim has to help overcome that or it simply wont work. Either we go all in on this fast paced offense or not. As of now this division is too physical for what we're working with while trying to be finesse.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Kirks TD would have been an incredible catch.

Arnold is a journeyman TE, that Kiiff and Kyler have deemed a “weapon”. That’s not a Keim thing.
There’s a reason nobody had ever heard of him and wouldn’t know him if he was on another team.
The fact that the Cards are counting on him says a lot.
 

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I've said it before but the last two drafts were the most loaded WR drafts in history and we 0'd out. Lucky that BOB was foolish. Eventually the lack of nailing picks comes back to bite us.

If we're going to try to be the D'Antoni Suns of the NFL then you go all in. No half measures. Either Oline/wr or trade back to acquire more picks (Again Simmons is a potential beast. Just saying what I would have done)


I am still a little confused on how he couldn't get one wr in this draft. I know teams miss but he chose three wrs in one draft and all of them are busts.

How do you that?
 

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My disagreement right now is we're 2-3 against the division and were in all but the Rams game. I expect to lose next week and finish 2-4 against the division but to me it's not just physicality that's the issue it's that he's being outschemed every game, on both sides, by NFC west coaches.

Again nobody is saying he has to be as good as Shanahan but my goodness not one single difficult throw today by Beathard they ran and schemed 21 points against us and we never made their QB have to make a tough play. That's scheme.

You just rarely see us do that, we week after week get screens blown up, it's pretty clear there's some tell or something that NFL defenses have on us you can't blow that many screens by coincidence, it has to be something we do that telegraphs it IMO
 
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SoonerLou

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Ding ding ding!

8 years of poor to mediocre football is a trend! As the old Parcells quote goes “you are who your record says you are”
If we're judging this year. He's 8-7 in his 2nd year. He's an improved coach with the only tangible piece added to this roster is Hopkins imo.

Just saying we wont really know what he is until we get him the roster + his QB gains experience.
 

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Cause if we're going to be this spread team then GET HIM HORSES. If we're going that route then beef up that Oline on the interior and get a legit #2 WR. I really like Simmons he'll be good. However, that didnt so Kyler, Kliff or the offense any favors imo.
We drafted his favorite QB ever, spent three picks on "horses" (WRs, and 1 the year prior from his style of offense) for the QB to ride, picked a 2nd round WR who was inactive today and KK celebrated about in the draft room... and got him a 4 time Pro-Bowler, 3-time 1st team All-Pro.

For the investment we've put in over the past four years, the "horses" should be able to run without a jockey.
 

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Kirks TD would have been an incredible catch.

Arnold is a journeyman TE, that Kiiff and Kyler have deemed a “weapon”. That’s not a Keim thing.
There’s a reason nobody had ever heard of him and wouldn’t know him if he was on another team.
The fact that the Cards are counting on him says a lot.


2 hands on the ball is an incredible catch? That wouldn't have been in even the top 10 catches for the team this year, hell D Hop has more than 10 catches this year tougher than that was.

I watched the post game in the Bay area they had ex 49er Donte Whitmer on. When they showed that play the other guy said on the telecast Lofton said you're going to get hit anyways, might as well catch it, and Whitmer said yeah the contact came AFTER the drop, he might have been thinking he was going to get hit but he didn't get hit until after he'd dropped it, that's on him the whole way.
 
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SoonerLou

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I am still a little confused on how he couldn't get one wr in this draft. I know teams miss but he chose three wrs in one draft and all of them are busts.

How do you that?
Now TBF KJ was a 6th rounder. He's actually been decent lately. However, its more about what we could have done with those picks as well. Other areas we could have addressed. I actually liked the idea of going WR heavy at the time though because it was embracing your coach and his offenses. Just didnt make the right decisions.

Even a guy like Murphy who has been decent this year. After drafting a QB your first priority should be helping him out. Bengals draft Joe Burrow and then follow it up with Tee Higgins. Once they went with Simmons in round 1 I was hoping they'd trade up and grab another target.
 

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Can anyone realistically say Murray's throwing mechanics is any better than when he started? If Kliff is not helping what is the point?

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Cardsfaninlouky

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Said it before 8 wins for a 2nd year coach is solid

I'm still firmly in the Kyler > Kliff camp in terms of most responsible for success this season. His running covered up a lot of holes on this team, but thats not a knock on Kliff either.

Cause I dont know if we have all the tools to really run his offense like he'd like.
But Kyler has his issues too and Kliff's dealing with it. So on the whole Kliff has done a fine job this year. He's learning on the fly and got 8 wins. Thats big.

Its just a question if we can deal with the physical teams of the division unless Kyler is truly running all over the field. Could we go back to the basics with Russell Wilson style and have Kyler as a game manager for a few years until Kyler is ready? Its possible with another coach sure.

However, I actually think what Kliff is doing works he just unfortunately has 6 games in the toughest division in football. Just not the level of knock back on this team with this defense and Oline. Meaning running the ball from traditional under center. The defense is also practices against our uptempo offense so much so I wonder if they are truly built to handle physical football.

I think Kliff wins 11 games in the NFC East, maybe 9 or 10 in the NFC South. Same could be said about the NFC North possibly.

Kliff works. Just a question if this division wears this team out or not. I dont know the answer. I know the guy who better have the answers is Keim.

Cause if we're going to be this spread team then GET HIM HORSES. If we're going that route then beef up that Oline on the interior and get a legit #2 WR. I really like Simmons he'll be good. However, that didnt so Kyler, Kliff or the offense any favors imo.

We've got no real YAC wrs for his offense and the Oline really struggles to create holes in the running game. Kyler is still just a 2nd year player so likely just not ready to carry a franchise yet.
WR's #2-3 would be a good start. #4 could be Arnold as a hybrid. Kirk needs to be replaced.
 
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SoonerLou

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WR's #2-3 would be a good start. #4 could be Arnold as a hybrid. Kirk needs to be replaced.
I like Kirk. However, when I first posted here I said that Kyler/Kirk didnt have the greatest chemistry at A&M. Short QBs likely need bigger WRs to throw to.

It was telling that after getting Hopkins we still had Kyler lobbying for Lamb. I wanted Wirfs, but it says a lot about what he thought of Kirk imo.
We drafted his favorite QB ever, spent three picks on "horses" (WRs, and 1 the year prior from his style of offense) for the QB to ride, picked a 2nd round WR who was inactive today and KK celebrated about in the draft room... and got him a 4 time Pro-Bowler, 3-time 1st team All-Pro.

For the investment we've put in over the past four years, the "horses" should be able to run without a jockey.
I mean some of this is on the QB/Wrs messing up as well. Now I dont think Kliff has done the team enough favors avoiding those run action plays. Still we've come far offensively in two years.
 
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SoonerLou

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Can anyone realistically say Murray's throwing mechanics is any better than when he started? If Kliff is not helping what is the point?

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Well I've said Kliff needs to hire a QB coach. Less things to worry about for Kliff. I think he wanted to be a guy Kyler could trust as he transitions to the NFL. Now its time to polish him up and let Kliff focus on other things.
 

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I too am off the opinion Kliff should get a year over Kiem.

Kiem does a better job building a football team. A lot of plays missed would have been made.



But the penalties are extremely concerning.

Lack of discipline is embarrassing for professional grown ass men.

Kiem has to go, but I think the incoming GM should have a chance to evaluate what the Cardinals have in Kliff.

My problem is can MB make the right decision in GM


Probably not since he was part of the decision making to hire Kingsbury so why would one think he can hire a good GM?
 
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