Josh Jackson

[pokerface]

I felt like starting this thread with a cannonball at Fultz and Ball.

Josh Jackson I think should be the number one pick for the suns for a very simple reason. You don't have to dismantle the suns if we draft him. You don't have to trade Bledsoe...You get defense.. you get solid passing and some scoring. Then as a added bonus we get another athletic player for highlight reels with Chriss.

You get Fultz then you have to trade Bledsoe. It's almost a lateral move on talent...Same for Ball. Yes we'd have to resign Bledsoe in two years but he may want to stay if the suns are rising. Its a gamble worth taking because the suns retain their draft picks (and will cash in on a Miami pick within the next two years). If Bled leaves the suns have Ulis as a backup plan plus they could draft a PG.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

You can't take Jackson because he is more convenient; you only take Jackson if he is your highest-rated prospect. If everything is equal, then fit should be a factor. However, this was the second worst team in the league. You don't make your elite draft pick fit your team...You make your team fit your draft pick.

 

[pokerface]

You can't take Jackson because he is more convenient; you only take Jackson if he is your highest-rated prospect. If everything is equal, then fit should be a factor. However, this was the second worst team in the league. You don't make your elite draft pick fit your team...You make your team fit your draft pick.

Jackson is as highly rated as the other two. If Fultz or Ball is slightly better it's not worth the hassle of trading Bledsoe and getting pennies on the dollar when he's putting up the best numbers of his career. If we keep Bled and add Jackson the suns could make the playoffs within two years. Bledsoe could resign then we gained more in the long run.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'm not saying there's no chance Jackson is at the top of the Suns board. I'm just saying if you think Fultz or Ball is better, you have to take your top guy. I won't dissect Bledsoe's value again (to avoid opening up Pandora's Box) but I think the decision on who to draft this high has to be about who is the best player.

 

[AZCrazy]

Having Bledsoe, Booker, Chriss, and Jackson in the corners would be unreal.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Jackson is as highly rated as the other two. If Fultz or Ball is slightly better it's not worth the hassle of trading Bledsoe and getting pennies on the dollar when he's putting up the best numbers of his career. If we keep Bled and add Jackson the suns could make the playoffs within two years. Bledsoe could resign then we gained more in the long run.

This is not correct. Chad Ford put out an article on how NBA GMs are rating this draft and only two players, Fultz and Ball received "Potential Superstar" votes from all GMs.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm ok with Jackson, but if Fultz is there, you have to take him. If Ball is also there, then you seriously have to consider taking him also. Bledsoe has nothing to do with it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Jackson could be a trade down scenario if the Suns get the 1st or 2nd pick. It's hard to know how the Suns feel about the early picks. My gut feeling is the Suns would like to draft Ball.

However, I'm not seeing a huge disparity with the players until after #4, #5, or #6. I think Jackson, Fox and Tatum could surprise.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not saying there's no chance Jackson is at the top of the Suns board. I'm just saying if you think Fultz or Ball is better, you have to take your top guy. I won't dissect Bledsoe's value again (to avoid opening up Pandora's Box) but I think the decision on who to draft this high has to be about who is the best player.

What do you mean by better? That's such a subjective thing to say. If a player is such a good fit that he makes a team better... Does that kind of better count for anything? If Fultz's games clashes with Booker's because he's taking too many shots....Is that better? Do we trade Booker? Is Fultz or Ball "LeBron type" better than Jackson...or just a little bit better? Is Ball or Fultz better than Bledsoe right now? If we truly wanted the better player wouldn't we be staying with Bledsoe?

Sometimes there are different kinds of better.

 

[pokerface]

I'm ok with Jackson, but if Fultz is there, you have to take him. If Ball is also there, then you seriously have to consider taking him also. Bledsoe has nothing to do with it.

Bledsoe has everything to do with it. This guy is playing at very high level. You just dont chuck him aside unless we have to or we're getting a smoking deal.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

What do you mean by better? That's such a subjective thing to say. If a player is such a good fit that he makes a team better... Does that kind of better count for anything? If Fultz's games clashes with Booker's because he's taking too many shots....Is that better? Do we trade Booker? Is Fultz or Ball "LeBron type" better than Jackson...or just a little bit better? Is Ball or Fultz better than Bledsoe right now? If we truly wanted the better player wouldn't we be staying with Bledsoe?

Sometimes there are different kinds of better.

I mean you rate your prospects, like every team does. If you have one prospect rated higher than the others, you pick him.

 

[Bert]

My issue with taking another PG is that it's just more in the Suns continuing saga of drafting PG's. I mean, if we draft a PG, get rid of Bled and the PG is slightly better or ever much better than Bled, is that going to equal a ton more wins?

I'm down with Josh Jackson. I feel like adding him and keeping Bled is the best approach, but that's just me.

 

[pokerface]

This is not correct. Chad Ford put out an article on how NBA GMs are rating this draft and only two players, Fultz and Ball received "Potential Superstar" votes from all GMs.

Then why has Jackson been listed as number one sometimes on NBA draft? I don't know...Seems like a very fluid situation. I don't know about all the crystal ball readers. I think Jackson has as much upside as anyone.

 

[pokerface]

I mean you rate your prospects, like every team does. If you have one prospect rated higher than the others, you pick him.

I'm sorry but that's just too simple in this case. Again, we're talking different kinds of better. Bledsoe is playing better than Fultz or Ball and he's doing it on a NBA proven level.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Here is the most recent write up on Jackson

Every team in the lottery I spoke with had Fultz or Ball No. 1, but several did mention that Jackson is still in the mix.

He's the best two-way player in the draft, competes harder than anyone else and has a versatility that many teams covet.

The big question: Can he keep hitting jumpers at the same clip he did this season? Some scouts remain skeptical.

My sense is that while every lottery team has Fultz or Ball at #1, they may have Jackson at #2.

 

[pokerface]

My issue with taking another PG is that it's just more in the Suns continuing saga of drafting PG's. I mean, if we draft a PG, get rid of Bled and the PG is slightly better or ever much better than Bled, is that going to equal a ton more wins?

I'm down with Josh Jackson. I feel like adding him and keeping Bled is the best approach, but that's just me.

See that's how I look at it. Jackson seems more like a net gain than a lateral move by getting another PG.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'm sorry but that's just too simple in this case. Again, we're talking different kinds of better. Bledsoe is playing better than Fultz or Ball and he's doing it on a NBA proven level.

It sounds simple because I didn't expand on my views because I didn't think I was making a particularly controversial statement.

Eric Bledsoe is good. I don't think he is a difference maker for this Suns team. By the time he could be a difference maker (as the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship-level team) he will be in decline.

A top 2 pick needs to be a true difference maker. They don't come around often, so you don't factor in a guy like Bledsoe when making that decision. Booker? Sure. But Booker arguably fits with all 3 prospects.

In other words, when you have a chance to draft Andrew Luck, you take him. Even if you have Peyton Manning. Was Manning better than Luck at the time of the draft? Of course. Do the Colts regret the decision? I highly doubt it.

And Eric Bledsoe is no Peyton Manning.

 

[Bodha]

It sounds simple because I didn't expand on my views because I didn't think I was making a particularly controversial statement.

Eric Bledsoe is good. I don't think he is a difference maker for this Suns team. By the time he could be a difference maker (as the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship-level team) he will be in decline.

A top 2 pick needs to be a true difference maker. They don't come around often, so you don't factor in a guy like Bledsoe when making that decision. Booker? Sure. But Booker arguably fits with all 3 prospects.

In other words, when you have a chance to draft Andrew Luck, you take him. Even if you have Peyton Manning. Was Manning better than Luck at the time of the draft? Of course. Do the Colts regret the decision? I highly doubt it.

And Eric Bledsoe is no Peyton Manning.

This sounds like the Len strategy. We have a great C in Gortat, but lets take Len because Len will eventually be better than Gortat.


Nope

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

The only problem there was that Len isn't that good. If scouts had it right, and Gobert was the top-rated center...we would have been insane to pass him up because of Gortat.

I absolutely understand that any draft pick is a gamble. I just think it's a gamble well worth taking.

 

[pokerface]

If we do a lateral move by taking Fultz or Ball and dumping Bledsoe prepare yourselves for another tanked season...In all likelihood. Unless we get a miracle return of value for Bled.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My issue with taking another PG is that it's just more in the Suns continuing saga of drafting PG's. I mean, if we draft a PG, get rid of Bled and the PG is slightly better or ever much better than Bled, is that going to equal a ton more wins?

I'm down with Josh Jackson. I feel like adding him and keeping Bled is the best approach, but that's just me.

Bledsoe is basically at or near his ceiling. He is a very good player but not a superstar.

Ball or Fultz have all star to superstar potential. That is why it isn't a lateral move.

That being said, I have no problem taking Jackson either.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If we do a lateral move by taking Fultz or Ball and dumping Bledsoe prepare yourselves for another tanked season...In all likelihood. Unless we get a miracle return of value for Bled.

Yeah...I agree that drafting Josh Jackson and moving forward with Bledsoe definitely makes us more competitive next season than the other approach (at least on paper). I just don't care that much about winning next year. I care very much about developing our players and improving, and I certainly could do without another year of tanking...But a 30 win season is fine if it is done in a competitive way that moves us forward.

With Bledsoe or without him, we're not competing for a couple more years at any important level, so building the right way should be our top priority at all times imho.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

One more quick point/clarification:

I'm not opposed to taking Jackson IF the Suns have him at the top of their board in earnest.

I think he is also a phenomenal prospect. I just don't want Bledsoe factoring into the choice unless all things are otherwise equal.

 

[Bert]

Bledsoe is basically at or near his ceiling. He is a very good player but not a superstar.

Ball or Fultz have all star to superstar potential. That is why it isn't a lateral move.

That being said, I have no problem taking Jackson either.

Makes sense. I wont be upset either way, the Suns have just drafted so many guard the last 10 years I'm just finding it hard to get that excited.

Now if we could draft one of those PG's and get someone good for Bled, that would be awesome.

 

[pokerface]

Bledsoe is basically at or near his ceiling. He is a very good player but not a superstar.

Ball or Fultz have all star to superstar potential. That is why it isn't a lateral move.

That being said, I have no problem taking Jackson either.

I don't have a real problem taking any of the top three either I just want the suns to get maximum advancement...Not taking a step forward and a step backwards and calling it a net plus. If we were able to get Jackson and keep Bledsoe after his contract expires that to me is more of a overall gain than Fultz or Ball being a little better than Jackson.