Is this the best 2-5 team ever?

[Mulli]

Falling forward - the Michael Bidwill story.

The stadium is good for funerals, I guess

 

[Chopper0080]

The Rams and Seahawks combined have 8 Pro Bowl appearances from their rookies in the last 3 years.

The Arizona Cardinals (with much better draft capital). 0

How do you build through the draft when teams in your own division draft far better than you?

Puka, JSN and who? Curious.

 

[football karma]

For sure a miss. In contrast, 2025 initially seems like a hit. A lot rides on Nolen but again, draft development can be very hit or miss.

yes -- some of its been bad luck

Nichols and Justin Jones basically never missed games. 24 games into their Cardinal tenure, they have gotten maybe 5 games total between the two of them. Do we even hear about Justin Jones anymore? That was supposed to be the active upfield DT.

But some of it is just bad player scouting:

they could have stayed put and taken Cooper DeJean. but they got too cute. fortunately they didnt make the same mistake twice when Will Johnson was on the board this year.

 

[DVontel]

Puka, JSN and who? Curious.

Verse.

 

[Chopper0080]

yes -- some of its been bad luck

Nichols and Justin Jones basically never missed games. 24 games into their Cardinal tenure, they have gotten maybe 5 games total between the two of them. Do we even hear about Justin Jones anymore? That was supposed to be the active upfield DT.

But some of it is just bad player scouting:

they could have stayed put and taken Cooper DeJean. but they got too cute. fortunately they didnt make the same mistake twice when Will Johnson was on the board this year.

Two issues here.

1 - Monti made the mistake of believing that signing Nichols and Jones was enough at the time. It wasn't. He has consistently just invested the minimum, low cost options in these key spots. So when the players are healthy, the impact is minimal and then when they get hurt, there is still bad depth. CB might be the only group he hasn't done this with.

2 - The error wasn't trading back in round 2 of the 2024 draft, it was not trading up. BTJ, Ladd, Worthy, Guyton and Barton were all available from 20 back and in a draft where the consensus was it was not a deep draft. (A quick review supports this) That was the draft to end up with three 1st rounders and either reinforce the lines or double down on WR.

 

[football karma]

Two issues here.

1 - Monti made the mistake of believing that signing Nichols and Jones was enough at the time. It wasn't. He has consistently just invested the minimum, low cost options in these key spots. So when the players are healthy, the impact is minimal and then when they get hurt, there is still bad depth. CB might be the only group he hasn't done this with.

2 - The error wasn't trading back in round 2 of the 2024 draft, it was not trading up. BTJ, Ladd, Worthy, Guyton and Barton were all available from 20 back and in a draft where the consensus was it was not a deep draft. (A quick review supports this) That was the draft to end up with three 1st rounders and either reinforce the lines or double down on WR.

I dont disagree

on 1 above-- there is something to be said for bringing in NFL average kind of starters to solidify things while building. I didnt expect pro bowl impact from either of those guys, but rather just dependable interior line play. They havent even gotten that obviously.

and on the draft: i guess its a compounded mistake. On the live draft thread -- I desperately wanted Monti to burn 3rds to move up from 28 to ... somewhere and grab one of the pass rushers that were sliding. Maybe he tried -- who knows -- but if not that, at least take the highly rated player that fell into your lap.

 

[Mulli]

If you won’t spend to upgrade a locker room, you won’t spend to draft 3 first round picks

 

[kerouac9]

For sure a miss. In contrast, 2025 initially seems like a hit. A lot rides on Nolen but again, draft development can be very hit or miss.

Dude it is way too early to tell. Burch is playing less and less. Many thought at this time that 2024 was the foundation of the next Cards playoff team.

 

[Chopper0080]

Dude it is way too early to tell. Burch is playing less and less. Many thought at this time that 2024 was the foundation of the next Cards playoff team.

Meh. CC and Sweat have been instant hits. Same with Dalvin. Zay Jones and Will Hern are both making contributions. Will Johnson has come out of the gate and is gettig lots of reps. Burch's snap share has decreased but was able to get snaps right away. Kitan Crawford has been a good ST player. Burke is not good but was competing with Clark who is a vet even if perpetually in the dog house.

I think the initial returns have been good and the long term prospects are interesting.

 

[kerouac9]

Meh. CC and Sweat have been instant hits. Same with Dalvin. Zay Jones and Will Hern are both making contributions. Will Johnson has come out of the gate and is gettig lots of reps. Burch's snap share has decreased but was able to get snaps right away. Kitan Crawford has been a good ST player. Burke is not good but was competing with Clark who is a vet even if perpetually in the dog house.

I think the initial returns have been good and the long term prospects are interesting.

Our defense went from 15/22 last year to 15/19 this year. What did we get for all these nominal improvements?

 

[Proximo]

I don't know how you can say that is clear. What makes this staff better than a staff that, you know, actually won and made the playoffs?

The level of respect the players have for them. I watch a lot of player interviews, they have this staff's back. Kliff was thought of as a joke by many of the players.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The level of respect the players have for them. I watch a lot of player interviews, they have this staff's back. Kliff was thought of as a joke by many of the players.

So you're position is that this staff is better because of your perception of how Kliff was respected? I'm more concerned about actual performance, but you do you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Meh. CC and Sweat have been instant hits. Same with Dalvin.

LOLOL… are you serious?! Just last week you were arguing with me saying these weren’t that much of an upgrade on the D negging each one of them, belittling their impact to the following bottom line:

40 year old DT
30+ DE
OLB plays 55%

Jesus man.

 

[Proximo]

So you're position is that this staff is better because of your perception of how Kliff was respected? I'm more concerned about actual performance, but you do you.

Think about you're own life. If you don't respect your boss you don't tend to work as hard especially when they make a request of you that you don't agree with.

Good leadership does not guarantee success, coachs aren't the ones on the field having to execute. The head coaches job is primarily keeping up team morale, building a culture, and fixing player issues. Yes they have to run the rest of the staff also - and that might be the biggest issue with Gannon.

I never make a judgement of a coach simply based on wins or losses, that is simplistic thinking. The best coaching staff in the world can't coach a division 2 team to a winning record against an NFL team - talent matters a ton, more than coaching.

 

[Proximo]

LOLOL… are you serious?! Just last week you were arguing with me saying these weren’t that much of an upgrade on the D negging each one of them, belittling their impact to the following bottom line:

40 year old DT
30+ DE
OLB plays 55%

Jesus man.

They are upgrades, albeit not as big of ones as I hoped.

I think our lack of blitzing compared to last season due to more confidence in the front 4 has actually neutralized much of the improvement of talent

 

[Cheesebeef]

They are upgrades, albeit not as big of ones as I hoped.

I think our lack of blitzing compared to last season due to more confidence in the front 4 has actually neutralized much of the improvement of talent

Here’s the problem… there’s no reason for that confidence at this point. With the influx of talent in the offseason, I get the staff wanting to stick to their guns early in the season despite not great results after one game… or two… fourth quarters where they bent so far they almost broke, but it’s been SEVEN CONSECUTIVE terrible fourth quarter performances on D and no change.

That’s awful coaching. That’s “the system works” when it’s clearly not.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Think about you're own life. If you don't respect your boss you don't tend to work as hard especially when they make a request of you that you don't agree with.

Comparing the world of professional sports to an office job is an exercise in futility.

I never make a judgement of a coach simply based on wins or losses, that is simplistic thinking. The best coaching staff in the world can't coach a division 2 team to a winning record against an NFL team - talent matters a ton, more than coaching.

Yes - it's simplistic, but its literally all that matters. There's a reason that Vince Lombardi said "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". Ultimately winning is all that matters - I can guarantee you if this season continues to go south, all the good vibes and leadership won't mean a thing.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Will Hern are both making contributions.

Love Will, but he's been hot garbage. Our guards are somewhere beyond horrible, and we did nothing of note to try and improve that position this offseason.

 

[Proteus]

So you're position is that this staff is better because of your perception of how Kliff was respected? I'm more concerned about actual performance, but you do you.

Kliff's team finished .500 or better in two of his first three seasons with him as the head coach. JG's team will almost certainly finish below .500 in each of his first three seasons with him as the head coach.

 

[kerouac9]

I never make a judgement of a coach simply based on wins or losses, that is simplistic thinking. The best coaching staff in the world can't coach a division 2 team to a winning record against an NFL team - talent matters a ton, more than coaching.

Who was the more talented team in the Titans-Cardinals Game?

 

[AZ Native]

Who was the more talented team in the Titans-Cardinals Game?

Uh, wait, let me think. I'll take Cardinals for $1000, Alex.

 

[BritCard]

But, when you are a fringe talent team, the clutch moments are where you need a playmaker to make a play. It's cliche but true. Especially on defense. You can call all of the blitzes you want but if you are leading, you need that CB, that pass rusher, that defender to make the critical play.

DTD got tossed to the ground by Kraft. Whether it should have been a penalty or not, the DB has to step up in that moment. A rush player has to win quick and put pressure on the QB to get the ball out. Players have to play with less cushion. Blitzers have to find a way to get home.

Vs Tenn, the offense crapped the bed. Regardless of the calls, who are the players stepping up to get the needed first down?

I have not loved the passive defensive calling much either, but the flip side is guys have to make plays. And if you don't have guys who can, that's a talent issue.

We're not a fringe talent team. If we were a fringe talent team we wouldn't consistently in the game with winning teams like the Niners, Seahawks, Green Bay and Indi.

Really, the whole "We suck, this isn't a good team" thing comes from the Titans debacle. If we win that game, as we should have, and the team is now 3-4 with close defeats against teams that are currently #2, #4, #5, #12 in the NFL power rankings then the feeling around here is very different. (and that #12 ranking for the Niners is harsh).

People that say this is the "easiest part of the schedule" are basing it on pre season rankings. The truth is we have played some very good teams and hung in their until the final drive without all of them, despite some serious issues at QB.

4 of our 5 loses have come against teams with a combined 20-6-1 record.

 

[BritCard]

Devils advocate and I like Burch, but if we had picked Skattebo there, or traded up to get him in the 4th, we'd probably have those same 2 more wins. He actually fit the offense we wanted to run it was one of the reasons many of us talked about him, he was an obvious successor to the type of run game we built around Conner. If we had him we'd be able to get some key first downs when we need them. The biggest issue we have now at RB IMO is pass pro. It's so hard to throw the ball with Carter on the field because he can't pass block and even Knight isn't very good at it had 2 really bad whiffs in the GB game. for a rookie Skattebo's pass pro has been REALLY good, and he can get the short yardage.

LOsing Conner and Benson in consecutive games was bad luck, but we could have changed that luck had we picked the one RB in the draft that CLEARLY fit our offense

Sure, but at the same time draft Skat with what our roster situation was at the time would have been dumb.

 

[BritCard]

We'll see...guys like Calais and Tomlinson are stopgaps - Sweat was the only guy that projects to be here for a couple of years, and he seems like a just fine signing. Not a star, but an above average starter. Clearly none of the players acquired outside of Campbell have made a major difference, hence our 2-5 record.

Most A's are stop gaps. Fans really misunderstand what FA is about.

Very rare to find long term starters in FA and when you do it's often luck (see Fro).

 

[BritCard]

The Rams and Seahawks combined have 8 Pro Bowl appearances from their rookies in the last 3 years.

The Arizona Cardinals (with much better draft capital). 0

How do you build through the draft when teams in your own division draft far better than you?

This is a chicken and egg stat. Players play better on rosters surrounded by talent already. They stand out for pro bowl nods on winning teams.

Take Marv as a good example. What's Marv's route to a pro bowl with a QB with a sub 6 yard YPA that can't throw on time? You drop Marv into a dozen other teams and he's a pro bowl player.