If not Fitz, why not Gallery?

[CardNots]

Here are my thoughts...

During last year, our OL made opposing team's DLs look like all pros. It doesn't appear the OL will be changed much from last year's group.

If we pick up Fitz, why do we believe the QB(any QB) will have time to throw the ball? What good is an open receiver if the QB doesn't have the time to look over the field.

Yes, if Fitz is there you take him. If not, take Gallery...

Yes, I hate to pour more into the OL, but without it how do we run the ball or have time to throw?

 

[Lex]

CardNots is obviously a very smart person that I agree with.

 

[Jetstream Green]

but

Scary, but our DL was much worse than our OL.

 

[CardNots]

Scary, but our DL was much worse than our OL.

True, but other than the 11 blind mice game @ SF they were hurt by 3 and out. By the second half, the DL was wore out...

 

[Lex]

You want scary?

Look at how we've spent our last four drafts:

2000-
2nd round, Ray Thompson LB
3rd round, Darwin Walker DT
4th round, David Barrett CB
5th round, Mao Tosi DL
6th round, Jabari Issa DL
7th round, Sekou Sanyika LB

2001-
2nd A-KVB DE
2nd B-Mike Stone CB
3rd-Adrian Wilson S
4th B-Marcus Bell DT
5th Mario Fatafehi DT
7th A-Renaldo Hill CB

2002-
1-Wendell Bryant DT
2-Levar Fisher LB
3B-Dennis Johnson DE
4-Nate Dwyer DT

2003-
1B-Calvin Pace DE
3-Gerald Hayes LB
5-Kenny King DE
6B-Tony Gilbert LB

Add in big free agents Bertrand Berry DE, and Dexter Jackson S, and Duane Starks CB.

My god. When you look at it all on one page, it's really sickening.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You want scary?

Look at how we've spent our last four drafts:

2000-
2nd round, Ray Thompson LB
3rd round, Darwin Walker DT
4th round, David Barrett CB
5th round, Mao Tosi DL
6th round, Jabari Issa DL
7th round, Sekou Sanyika LB

2001-
2nd A-KVB DE
2nd B-Mike Stone CB
3rd-Adrian Wilson S
4th B-Marcus Bell DT
5th Mario Fatafehi DT
7th A-Renaldo Hill CB

2002-
1-Wendell Bryant DT
2-Levar Fisher LB
3B-Dennis Johnson DE
4-Nate Dwyer DT

2003-
1B-Calvin Pace DE
3-Gerald Hayes LB
5-Kenny King DE
6B-Tony Gilbert LB

Add in big free agents Bertrand Berry DE, and Dexter Jackson S, and Duane Starks CB.

My god. When you look at it all on one page, it's really sickening.

What's the phrase? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile?

 

[Red Dawn]

Gallery was on the Best Damn Sports show today, he seems like a nice kid with a good outlook. He said he has had a goal of being the first pick of the draft for a long time. If he is there at #3 I hope we grab him.

 

[Evil Ash]

If not Fitz, why not Gallery?

2 Reasons

1) Too much $$ already put into the O-Line

2) Don't know how well he'll adjust to Right Tackle, the position he would play here

 

[Second Deck]

I am a big fan of LJ. He very seldom misses a game and plays through injury. If Clement does not play better maybe we should give big a try at RT . I agree we have to much money invested in the o-line to use a third pick.

 

[azdad1978]

I am a big fan of LJ. He very seldom misses a game and plays through injury. If Clement does not play better maybe we should give big a try at RT . I agree we have to much money invested in the o-line to use a third pick.

We did that already and Big got beat like a drum roll by quick pass rushers. Can you imagine what Leonard Little would do to Big one on one?

 

[bigredjane]

If we did-

Draft Gallery, do you think they would get him a hair dresser?? And what about his short arms? At least Simeon had those long getcha arms!! He is impressive though!!

 

[Chainthroer]

I'm with you Cardnots. Like I said many posts ago, if Green means what he says about taking the "best player available" then he'd have to take Gallery. We'd be kicking butt on the pass and run from then on!! Put Sheldon on the right side sort it out from there.
Otherwise, trade down for good value, i.e., bare minimun 2nd round pick along with either the Giants (preferably) or Clevelands 1st rounder.
Bottom line, if we do not trade the pick we should let everyone know in the 15 minute allotment that we're going to take Gallery!

 

[Skkorpion]

Denny Green has not once said he'd take the best available player.

He has told the media there are 4 playmakers at the top of our draft board and that we'd take one of them.

Never, ever, not one single time, even back in February when he said there were seven superior players in this draft, did he say he would take the best available player.

Please quit repeating that "BAP" nonsense.

 

[Reddog]

I think DG will have these guys looking like an entirely different unit this year. They have under achieved for a couple years so if they even lived up to 80% of their potential it would be a huge improvement. It will be interesting if he can light a fire under LD's huge A$$.

 

[Chainthroer]

Skkorp – FYI

Per Dan Arkush’s article posted 2/17/04 for pfwmedia.com:
“Green has been a consistent advocate of the best-available-athlete theory and is on record as saying that Fitzgerald is the best player available in the 2004 draft.”

“New head coach Dennis Green might have dropped a hint during ... the 2004 draft. Green, who is on record saying he likes taking the best player available, quickly rattled off ... “
www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+West/Arizona

“… the recent hiring of Dennis Green could lead to an offensive explosion. Green won countless ... take the “Take the best player available on the board” approach to ... “
www.nfldraftblitz.com/mockdraft.htm

I did not do a lot of in depth research for the above – just a quick superficial search off the internet.. So, I do not avow to to the accuracy. But, I do recall “BAP,” as you refer to it, as related to Coach Green.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Bap !!

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) -- New Arizona coach Dennis Green isn't saying who tops his wish list for next week's NFL draft. Still, it doesn't take a genius to figure out wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald is the guy.

Green said Thursday the Cardinals will take the best athlete available with their No. 3 overall pick.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/specials/draft/2004/04/15/bc.fbn.cardinalsdraft.ap/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4752548/

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/0219nflcombine0219.html


Conspiracy perhaps Skkorp ?

 

[vikesfan]

Once again the arguement that too much money is invested in a position is wrong. You need to draft good players the Vikes at one point had 4 PRO-BOWL OL too much money yes - also a 15 win season. The Vikes had too much money invested in 2 top flight WRs then drafted Moss. The too much money argument is wrong. You better take a good player and not worry about who his agent is, what his dad says or if you have too much money invested in that position already. If the guy is good cut some of the guys you already have there or move them around.

 

[Evil Ash]

Once again the arguement that too much money is invested in a position is wrong. You need to draft good players the Vikes at one point had 4 PRO-BOWL OL too much money yes - also a 15 win season. The Vikes had too much money invested in 2 top flight WRs then drafted Moss. The too much money argument is wrong. You better take a good player and not worry about who his agent is, what his dad says or if you have too much money invested in that position already. If the guy is good cut some of the guys you already have there or move them around.

What makes you so sure he can adjust from Left Tackle to Right Tackle? Just because he's a solid O-Line prospect, doesn't mean he can be plugged in anywhere!

 

[vikesfan]

What makes you so sure he can adjust from Left Tackle to Right Tackle? Just because he's a solid O-Line prospect, doesn't mean he can be plugged in anywhere!

RT is essentially the same position as LT. Gallery might actually be made the LT and Shelton moved. The LT is generally the better pass blocker and RT is generally the better run blocker. LT is a guy who faces the better pass rushers so the LT has to be a better pass blocker teams generally run to the right so the RT is usually a better run blocker. But it is not a big deal. Having 2 LTs on a team would be a bonus because each one would provide great pass protection and as for running I am sure they could do a decent enough job. You would not sacrifice great pass blocking for great run blocking in the pros. You can always add a big guard (in this case you have that in Big) and a blocking TE to help on the run. The key is pass block in the NFL. It is a rare talent. Like the RDE on defense! Having 2 LTs is like having 2 RDEs it's great the hardest things to find are great pass blockers and pass rushers. Have 2 on a team and you will do really well.

 

[Evil Ash]

Some good points Vikesfan. I'm not totally against picking Gallery, however I am leery of it.

Having 2 LTs on a team would be a bonus because each one would provide great pass protection and as for running I am sure they could do a decent enough job.

Try 3 LTs (LJ, Big, and Gallery) ... and thus the very reason I'm a little leery of picking Gallery because Big was a CAN'T miss LT prospect just like Gallery. As of this point he's been a miss, he can't seem to play tackle and people are unsure of his determination to play great at the guard position.

The difference between the Vikes O-Line with 4 Probowlers that eventually got paid is that the majority of these players were taken in the later rounds and proved their worth for those paychecks. The Cards O-Line doesn't need another maybe put on this line, they need a sure thing. As of this point Gallery hasn't proven squat at the NFL level yet.

 

[vikesfan]

Some good points Vikesfan. I'm not totally against picking Gallery, however I am leery of it.



Try 3 LTs (LJ, Big, and Gallery) ... and thus the very reason I'm a little leery of picking Gallery because Big was a CAN'T miss LT prospect just like Gallery. As of this point he's been a miss, he can't seem to play tackle and people are unsure of his determination to play great at the guard position.

The difference between the Vikes O-Line with 4 Probowlers that eventually got paid is that the majority of these players were taken in the later rounds and proved their worth for those paychecks. The Cards O-Line doesn't need another maybe put on this line, they need a sure thing. As of this point Gallery hasn't proven squat at the NFL level yet.

Actually 3 of the pro-bowlers on the Vikes o-line were first round picks - both OTs by the way and 1 G.

Don't judge by past picks. That pick might have been blown. The Cards have had a lot of bad drafting at many positions you cannot not take those positions in future drafts cause past ones busted. Remember the people who took Big are not picking the players in this draft. DG is if DG thinks Gallery will be good and drafts him that is a different thing then what happened in the past. If DG takes a RB it has nothing to do with Thomas Jones thing that happened in the past if you see what I mean. You have to draft the right guy - don't go purely by position or what happened in the past. DG is trying to work with what he inherited he got Big. He will try and work the best he can with him. If he can't he will trade or cut him. But you can't let that effect what you do.

Believe me DG wants the sure thing a starter at #3 not a project. IMO not DG's I think Gallery will be a starter in the NFL for 10 years. I might be wrong but I think he is the safest pick in the draft. Again this is IMO. DG never said this if DG wants him he takes him. I believe he did say Gallery was one of the bluechippers (unless this was smoke).

 

[Cardiac]

Shelton would be the perfect RT. He is very strong at the point of attack and a great run blocker. He occasionaly gets beat in pass protection and this would be less of a concern at RT. With the move of BIG to the LG positon it would lessen the concerns of starting a rookie LT.


The money on the O-line would only be a concern for this year. Clement would be cut or his contract reworked. Kendall is in his last year? of his contract. The Cards have the cap room to over spend on O-line this year and then this situation would basically take care of itself next year.

To Vikesfans point look at all of the trades and FA acquisitions that happen every year in regards to OT's. Also look at what Pace and Jones are looking for in long term contracts. Shelton's contract fits in with what a lot of teams pay for a great RT.

The Rams lost Gandy? in FA two years ago and that was their worst year since they had that stiff St.Claire starting at the OT position. Warner gets hammered and is never the same and then the Rams acquire Turley to shore up this position.

So Gallery would be the safest pick and would have a huge positive impact on the team. At least more so then a WR.

 

[Skkorpion]

Chainthrower and Socalfan, I'm willing to be corrected, but please listen to what I am saying.

THIS YEAR, I have not heard Denny Green say he'll take the BAP. The reports you cite have misquoted him or quoted him from past years, IMO.

I've listened very carefully to Denny. He actually is very astute with his choice of words.

Yes, he has repeatedly said Larry Fitzgerald is the best player in the draft.
Yes, he has said there are 7, or 9 superior players in this draft and we'll get one of them.
Yes, he has said his approach to drafting is to take the BAP.

But, when discussing the first round this year, he has said over and over and over that he will select one of 4 playmakers. He doesn't say he will select the BAP. He says he MUST have a playmaker.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but I don't think so.

Can anybody post a link to a sound bite that has Denny saying he'll take the BAP in round 1 this year?

 

[Duckjake]

Two reasons that the OL may have had troubles last season:

Pete Kendall was playing Center for the first time and adjusting to making the offensive line calls.

New offensive coordinator.

The Cardinals Olinemen appeared to miss blocks far more often because they were confused about the blocking assignments than lack of skill.

Far too often there were two or three guys blocking one defender while another defender went untouched into the Cardinal backfield. It looked like a Chinese Fire Drill at times.

A good example of this was the Bears game. If you have a tape of it take a look and focus on how many times people were just out of position on both sides of the ball.

I saw our Olinemen individually dominate defenders too many times to think that they simply lack the talent. They just didn't work well as a unit.

 

[vikesfan]

Chainthrower and Socalfan, I'm willing to be corrected, but please listen to what I am saying.

THIS YEAR, I have not heard Denny Green say he'll take the BAP. The reports you cite have misquoted him or quoted him from past years, IMO.

I've listened very carefully to Denny. He actually is very astute with his choice of words.

Yes, he has repeatedly said Larry Fitzgerald is the best player in the draft.
Yes, he has said there are 7, or 9 superior players in this draft and we'll get one of them.
Yes, he has said his approach to drafting is to take the BAP.

But, when discussing the first round this year, he has said over and over and over that he will select one of 4 playmakers. He doesn't say he will select the BAP. He says he MUST have a playmaker.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but I don't think so.

Can anybody post a link to a sound bite that has Denny saying he'll take the BAP in round 1 this year?

Dude a playmaker is by definition a BPA.
Playmaker is a BPA who delivers TOs and TDs.
So yeah Gallery is a BPA but not a playmaker.
In this case BPA and playmaker are not mutually exclusive.
Winslow Taylor and Fitz are BPAs and Playmakers.

If the playmaking BPAs are gone then yeah he might take a non-playmaking BPA.