Gardner Minshew II is Val Kilmer

[BigRedRage]

2 pages for me.

yeah its only 5 pages

but i couldnt give two ***** about comparing these two after 2 weeks of football. just me.

 

[JeffGollin]

Can't agree with you here, Kyler is a lot more polished to me.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

There are a handful of young prospects who catch your eye that you put on your short list of guys you "knew about when nobody else did." For me Minshew was one of them.

He caught my eye on paper, and I made an effort to see him in action: Compact...Good head...dart thrower..But a tad short and I kinda wrote him off as another smart, mobile QB

On hindsight - he seems to arrived to where Kyler is heading; he just got there from a different direction. The two seem similar - arm...head...mobility..short - but I suspect Murray has more speed, quicks, deep talent and velocity.

In any case, I knew about Minshew when nobody else did (heh heh).

 

[Southpaw]

More like Doc Holliday

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[Southpaw]

There are a handful of young prospects who catch your eye that you put on your short list of guys you "knew about when nobody else did." For me Minshew was one of them.

He caught my eye on paper, and I made an effort to see him in action: Compact...Good head...dart thrower..But a tad short and I kinda wrote him off as another smart, mobile QB

On hindsight - he seems to arrived to where Kyler is heading; he just got there from a different direction. The two seem similar - arm...head...mobility..short - but I suspect Murray has more speed, quicks, deep talent and velocity.

In any case, I knew about Minshew when nobody else did (heh heh).

Me first. Saw the guy at ECU and WSU.

 

[Southpaw]

extremely early and small sample size, but so far, Minshew is outperforming Murray in:

• Overall rushing (!!!)
• TD:INT ratio
• Completion %
• Substantially less sacks/game

mind you, Gardner wasn’t groomed to be the starter since April like Kyler.

Obviously not even close to the end result, but puts away the “debatable” notion of who’s had a better start to his career so far

and Minshew is in the stale Jag/Morreau/Coughlin style of game while Murray is in the Wild West offense. Just sayin'.

 

[Chopper0080]

Is anyone making that argument?

The Cards have had almost zero rushing game thus far and are throwing almost 80% of the time.

Kyler is also playing behind a worse offensive line which isn't exactly helping things either.

Sure they are both playing the QB position, but that alone is an oversimplification.
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Is literally carrying this team on his back since he doesn’t have Leonard Fornette as his running back
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And is also: top 5 in total passing yards and doing all this with a porous OL where he’s under duress for most of the game and is working with a rookie signal caller who has absoluteLY NO NFL experience.

But here you crowning Menshew who would be awful behind this line and doesn’t know if he can take the punishment. Your reasoning is ridiculous to say the least
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Better supporting cast. Jacksonville is a much more veteran team. Plugging in an experienced, rookie QB isnt hurting them too much.
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Just from this thread...all stating that Jacksonville's offense is a better foundation than Arizonas. Which is wrong.

 

[Southpaw]

Minshew didn't score high at wonderlic test?
I heard many reporting about him high ceiling back up QB, not adequate arm strength to play in the NFL

Same clowns who recommended he be passed up until the 6th round.

 

[Chopper0080]

When the stats say Kyler Murray is good, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "look at the stats! The context behind them is irrelevant!"

When the stats say Minshew is better than Murray right now, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "the stats are not in context, look at the line, coaching, weapons and defense!"

You guys are funny.

 

[TaylorSwift]

When the stats say Kyler Murray is good, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "look at the stats! The context behind them is irrelevant!"

When the stats say Minshew is better than Murray right now, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "the stats are not in context, look at the line, coaching, weapons and defense!"

You guys are funny.

There is nothing about Minshew's game that suggests he is better than Murray.

This is a another hype show by the majority group of NFL fans and he will be average or flame out before the end of his rookie contract

 

[TJ]

Minshew didn't score high at wonderlic test?
I heard many reporting about him high ceiling back up QB, not adequate arm strength to play in the NFL

He scored a 42. IIRC, that was the highest among the 2019 QBs.

Because I’m feeling saucy today, I’ll just point out that Murray had a 20, which was the lowest of the QBs

 

[Southpaw]

Gardner Minshew once tried to break his own hand in college to help his career; the legend grows
The legend of Gardner Minshew continues to grow with this bizarre story during his days at East Carolina

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/gardner-minshew-once-tried-to-break-his-own-hand-in-college-to-help-his-career-the-legend-grows/

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The Cards have had almost zero rushing game thus far and are throwing almost 80% of the time.

Kyler is also playing behind a worse offensive line which isn't exactly helping things either.

Sure they are both playing the QB position, but that alone is an oversimplification.
###
Is literally carrying this team on his back since he doesn’t have Leonard Fornette as his running back
###
And is also: top 5 in total passing yards and doing all this with a porous OL where he’s under duress for most of the game and is working with a rookie signal caller who has absoluteLY NO NFL experience.

But here you crowning Menshew who would be awful behind this line and doesn’t know if he can take the punishment. Your reasoning is ridiculous to say the least
###
Better supporting cast. Jacksonville is a much more veteran team. Plugging in an experienced, rookie QB isnt hurting them too much.
###

Just from this thread...all stating that Jacksonville's offense is a better foundation than Arizonas. Which is wrong.

So you are saying that none of the things you quoted are true? Pretty sure most if not all of that is true.

Doesn't mean the foundation is better for them, but that the overall situation lends itself to better looking stats.

Things like throwing the lowest percentage of passes to open receivers and throwing on almost 80% of snaps don't do a lot to help out your stats, at least not efficiency stats.

 

[SoonerLou]

He scored a 42. IIRC, that was the highest among the 2019 QBs.

Because I’m feeling saucy today, I’ll just point out that Murray had a 20, which was the lowest of the QBs

So you are saying that none of the things you quoted are true? Pretty sure most if not all of that is true.

Doesn't mean the foundation is better for them, but that the overall situation lends itself to better looking stats.

Things like throwing the lowest percentage of passes to open receivers and throwing on almost 80% of snaps don't do a lot to help out your stats, at least not efficiency stats.

Should be noted that since the 4th Qrt vs. Detroit Kyler has posted a 103 Passer rating.

In terms of QBR
*if we're going off STARTS since some posters say thats all that matters *

Kyler's posted a higher total QBR in both of his first starts than GM

GM 30.1 in game 1
GM 58.1 in game 2.

KM 34.3 in game 1
KM 60 in game 2


Factoring in GM's stellar game against the Chiefs he's ahead of KM in overall QBR
(49.7 to 46.2)


Don't have the #s in front of me, but I believe based upon ESPN total QBR Kyler has posted a 75 QBR ever since the 4th Qrt against the Lions.

 

[jf-08]

When the stats say Kyler Murray is good, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "look at the stats! The context behind them is irrelevant!"

When the stats say Minshew is better than Murray right now, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "the stats are not in context, look at the line, coaching, weapons and defense!"

You guys are funny.

When the stats say Kyler Murray is good, the Anti-Murray crowd says, "look at the stats! The context behind them are relevant! He's throwing and making all the yardage in garbage time."

When the stats say Minshew is better than Murray right now, the Anti-Murray crowd says, "the stats are not in context, regardless of the line, coaching, weapons and defense!"

It's called choosing the statistics to build your own narrative.

 

[MadCardDisease]

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[BigRedRage]

When the stats say Kyler Murray is good, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "look at the stats! The context behind them is irrelevant!"

When the stats say Minshew is better than Murray right now, the Kyler Murray crowd says, "the stats are not in context, look at the line, coaching, weapons and defense!"

You guys are funny.

I'm the crowd that just roots for players on my team and gives them time to develop before I chew on stats and criticism.

 

[jf-08]

I'm the crowd that just roots for players on my team and gives them time to develop before I chew on stats and criticism.

Ditto.

 

[TaylorSwift]

When the stats say Kyler Murray is good, the Anti-Murray crowd says, "look at the stats! The context behind them are relevant! He's throwing and making all the yardage in garbage time."

When the stats say Minshew is better than Murray right now, the Anti-Murray crowd says, "the stats are not in context, regardless of the line, coaching, weapons and defense!"

It's called choosing the statistics to build your own narrative.

I cant put my finger on it, but there is an agenda afoot here.

 

[Vacard]

I cant put my finger on it, but there is an agenda afoot here.

When people spout intelligence and wonderlic scores to further an argument, there’s definitely an agenda afoot. It’s downright sickening.

 

[TaylorSwift]

When people spout intelligence and wonderlic scores to further an argument, there’s definitely an agenda afoot. It’s downright sickening.

Especially when it has little to do with actually playing the position.

Gardner is a rookie playing with a strong defense, decent running game and wrs with speed and natural talent on the outside.

Even on file, Murray velocity, accuracy and willingness to attack defense by going through his progressions are far better than Gardners at this point.

His ability to deliver strikes while pressure is in his face.

What the heck is going on out here.

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This ridiculous and we had actually mods instead of agenda pushers, this thread would have been wastebinned awhile ago.

 

[PACardsFan]

The opposite can very well be true.

Minshew already has basic fundamentals of the position and has the physical tools to be successful for a long period of time. He’s not in a gimmicky offense and running RPOs, but has the athleticism to run if needed. More importantly, he’s been successful.

Rather than the league figuring him out, I think Minshew has the intelligence and wherewithal to pivot. I can’t say the same about Kyler.

Your so called "gimmicky offense" that KM is in, is pretty much the same offense that Minshew ran at Washington State. If not for that gimmicky offense, Minshew would be selling life insurance right now. I like Minshew & WSU is an entertaining team to watch. But, to compare him to K1 after 2 games is pure folly. Those on this board that think K1 only fits into KK's offense are wrong. His skill set would apply to any offense that is being employed at the NFL level. Even if KK fails to succeed at the NFL level, the Cardinals can go back to any traditional offense & K1 would still succeed. For what it's worth, Minshew doesn't have the arm strength nor the quick release that K1 possesses. But, I still like him. Contrary to what people initially thought, the principles of the Air Raid offense definitely prepares QB's to have success in the NFL.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Lol i think he looks like Baker mayfield with the hair and headband

 

[mjb21aztd]

Uncle Rico is that you?

Go back jn time and win the championship and i bet could throw a ball over the mountains

 

[JeffGollin]

Jacksonville has a very good defense to help put the offense in good positions to succeed.

Most QB evaluations reflect context-factors like "good receivers", "great defense", coaching TLC etc. The numbers are the numbers. Whatever the factors, Minshew apparently did good enough to attract notice.

When a team's pass blocking breaks down or its running attack is nonexistant, the QB doesn't receive "poor baby" points because the support was lacking. The numbers etc. etc.

That's football.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

half kidding about that last part.

I do think Gardner is outplaying Kyler so far. Its early though.

Gardner doesn’t have to shoulder the full burden like kyler does at this point. The Jags D is one of the best in the league. Cards is average so far (step up from last year but miles behind jags).