Deal going down....VERY SOON

[SunsFanVegas]

Outside of Lebron, Cleveland has nobody even close to Amare. Out of all the teams in the NBA, Cleveland would be one of the teams I WOULDN'T want to trade with.

You are exactly right...and is the reason why it will probably happen, because it makes little or no sense for us. Kudos to the Cavs....Amare may just get his ring after all.

 

[arwillan]

Outside of Lebron, Cleveland has nobody even close to Amare. Out of all the teams in the NBA, Cleveland would be one of the teams I WOULDN'T want to trade with.

You're right. Talent wise, it would/will be a robbery. They'd give up Szczerbiak's expiring deal (about 14 million) and JJ Hickson, whom many Nba scouts are completely high on. Many say that had he returned to NC state for his sophomore year, he'd be a top 5-10 pick this year. So he's got all sorts of potential.

 

[Chaplin]

You're right. Talent wise, it would/will be a robbery. They'd give up Szczerbiak's expiring deal (about 14 million) and JJ Hickson, whom many Nba scouts are completely high on. Many say that had he returned to NC state for his sophomore year, he'd be a top 5-10 pick this year. So he's got all sorts of potential.

That's all well and good, but JJ Hickson for Amare Stoudemire? That is beyond stupidity.

 

[Folster]

That Cavalier rumor is horse****. I'm not going believe some loser on a Cavs message board who's posting "insider" tips on a Saturday night. I can't believe for a second that even Sarver would be that stupid and that cheap. If in some way Sarver decides to do that trade, I won't watch another Suns game for the rest of the year.

Amar'e for Wally, Hickson and one of the last picks in the first round. Hickson wasn't even good enough to play in the rookie/sophmore challenge for ***** sake.

 

[Blackification]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2009/02/13/20090213spt-allstarsuns.html

 

[green machine]

I like the idea of the Suns trading Amare for a guy they passed on when they had the chance to draft him only a few months back. \

This trade = fail.

 

[AceP]

A friend of mine living in Houston heard from local medias, Morey, their GM, has made a formal offer by Artest + Scola + Barry or Head. On paper this deal lacks of a young talent. Besides, I'm not sure Kerr would like to trade with a western playoff rival.

I still believe the pending with the Bulls is waiting on Gooden's medical. That deal makes most sense.

 

[cly2tw]

A friend of mine living in Houston heard from local medias, Morey, their GM, has made a formal offer by Artest + Scola + Barry or Head. On paper this deal lacks of a young talent. Besides, I'm not sure Kerr would like to trade with a western playoff rival.

I still believe the pending with the Bulls is waiting on Gooden's medical. That deal makes most sense.

why should they care about a throw-in's physical, now they aren't competing without Amare anyway?

 

[Chaplin]

why should they care about a throw-in's physical, now they aren't competing without Amare anyway?

Because it's the rules.

 

[mojorizen7]

A friend of mine living in Houston heard from local medias, Morey, their GM, has made a formal offer by Artest + Scola + Barry or Head. On paper this deal lacks of a young talent. Besides, I'm not sure Kerr would like to trade with a western playoff rival.

I still believe the pending with the Bulls is waiting on Gooden's medical. That deal makes most sense.

Where do i sign?
Would rather have Landry though.
Logjam @ the 4 you say?.......Go hybridsmall with Shaq/Artest/Hill/JRich/Nash
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aus67r

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Cavs insider is reporting this.

(Keep in mind, everyone there trusts him as he is somehow involved with the organization and works closely with J.J Hickson. He broke news about the Mo Williams trade and is probably more of a insider than Db from RealGM)


The first two posts are from late afternoon and the 3rd post is from this evening.

To summarize:

• There is no official deal and no handshake deal. So, no deal of any sort.
• Two allstars have talked on the phone during the allstar break
• Amare (and every other nba player) would like to be on a team with LeBron, who will be courted by every GM in the nation in 2010 and he still has yet to publicly state where he vows to play
• Two GMs are discussing a deal for a player who has been shopped for the past two weeks, adding Cleveland to a list that includes: Detroit, Portland, Houston, New Jersey, Golden State, Chicago, New York, Oklahoma, Miami, Toronto, Memphis, Sacramento, Atlanta, Washington, and possibly a few others...
• The proposed trade is pretty much the worst one being discussed so far.

 

[cly2tw]

Because it's the rules.

Which rules? Physicals can be waived. Gooden is an expiring contract and thus just a fillin.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Gooden would be a regular part of the rotation, and maybe even start. He is averaging 30mpg, better than 45% from the field, and has a solid rebouding rate. We get that you don't like him, but just because you say they arent competing doesnt mean they wont try to compete. Amare's defensive inefficiencies are a big weakness on this team. You dont think we can spread Amare's 21 pts and 8rebs to the rest of the team? You're kidding yourself.

Your cynicism is clouding the obvious.

 

[cly2tw]

Gooden would be a regular part of the rotation, and maybe even start. He is averaging 30mpg, better than 45% from the field, and has a solid rebouding rate. We get that you don't like him, but just because you say they arent competing doesnt mean they wont try to compete. Amare's defensive inefficiencies are a big weakness on this team. You dont think we can spread Amare's 21 pts and 8rebs to the rest of the team? You're kidding yourself.

Your cynicism is clouding the obvious.

I beg to differ. It's realism, not cynism.
Gooden is not really a difference-making defensive bigman. As long as the defensive liabilities Shaq and Nash are on the team and play big minutes, replacing Amare with a bunch of role players would bring nothing for the team to really compete.

 

[AceP]

About Gooden, we definitely prefer a servicable player than a useless injuried man in any deal. And Gooden is a very solid role player to give us very necessary front depth. You certainly don't count on Tyrus Thomas to replace Amare all by himself. As YouJustGotSUNSD has said, Gooden actually might be the starting PF.

There is also a trick, if Gooden is out for the season, adding Noah into the package is a MUST.

 

[AceP]

Where do i sign?
Would rather have Landry though.
Logjam @ the 4 you say?.......Go hybridsmall with Shaq/Artest/Hill/JRich/Nash
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aus67r

Just told by the same friend, according to local source, Kerr gave Morey a positive response. It appears Kerr like Scola, but asked for Brooks instead of Barry, and a few other small pieces mentioned.

Be aware, I have no idea if this rumor is creditable. Even if they are really talking, Kerr might be just using this to increase his bargaining power with other teams.


Assuming it's true ...

Scola is a legit PF with excellent rebound rate, he is very damn skillful and clever around the rim. Defensively, he is so-so, strong enough but a bit slow, no long arms, no block, but, one of the best floppers. My feeling is, he handles the starting PF job in the Rockets, one of the elite defensive team in NBA, so he can do it well here.

Artest will instantly push Hill to bench, and Barnes has to be out with Amare. The Rockets should also need/want a backup SF.

Is Brooks important? I don't know. He is not a legit PG and too small to defend anyone. We have Barbosa already.

 

[slinslin]

The Rockets proposal lacks everything and the Cavs proposal is absolutely delusional and wouldn't even be enough to get Shaq.

 

[simply_amare]

Oh heck no! I wouldn't even trade Barbosa for those 2 weak arse offers from Cavs/Rox. Those offers should be blocked emphatically towards their face. They can't bring that weak arse sh_t here...

I hope Suns management ain't that stupid... But I have a strong feeling they are..

 

[jandaman]

slin slin....

Is it fair to assume you would think Stoudemire + top 10 draft pick is equal to Michael Jordan?..... No?

Well, sorry to sound really obnoxious, but it seems like you wouldnt consider any offers except for any of the top 5 players in the NBA.

Sadly, Stoudemire had the opportunity to SHOW OFF his other traits other than scoring.... but he hasnt. Glimpses? yes.
But no way near enough, considering you see Dwight Howard, who mind you was supposed to be Stoudemire's rival for the next decade.... pulling down 20 rebounds in games where he isnt a factor offensively... hence making the Magic's interior really dependable and "potent".

Bosh has also shown he is a tremendous scorer, when healthy... people thought Stoudemire was clear cut ahead of all power forwards offensively.. but Bosh for a lot of games has shown he can score a heck of a lot too when he tries hard there.



I like Stoudemire, he brings what he brings... scoring power.
Is he worth 20 Million a year.... MAYBE.... will he accept less than that?..... UNLIKELY.

So why should the Suns pay him that much and cripple their cap?



Am I happy with the proposals?..... not really.
But I am optimistic that atleast the Bull's offer is intriguing that they want to send enough young players who can help now and has potential to be KEY players for the future.

The Cavs offer/rumour is no way near sufficient... maybe if they have a 7~11 draft pick from another team this upcomming draft.... then its not even worth discussing.


Keep Stoudemire and pay him?.... hopefully not for the max... as he hasnt shown he is the type..

Let him walk? and the Suns dont get anything back?.... endangers the Suns even more.

Sign and trade? then the Suns lose leverage....


Or trade him now, but make sure you get as MUCH as you can... without insulting other GMs by asking for elite stars....


I think its a hell of a lot harder for Kerr/Sarver or any GM to make the decision..

But for a Suns fan... I dont want to be watching a team with a bleak decade a head... they're bound to rebuild.... so might as well start early and hopefully the "pain" for us fans is only a short term... 2 seasons of re-structuring...

 

[AceP]

I have a feeling the actually deal might be more than Amare, and not just small pieces. Shaq is probably out. J.Rich is also vulnerable.

 

[lou_skywalker]

probably, but i really do hope that J Rich stays coz he can run with Nash if amare goes and Gentry takes over.
I think other players like tucker dudley or dragic will get packaged with Amare.

 

[CardsFan88]

Yes, you don't trade amare unless you get equal or greater value.

No one wants to, then NO ONE WANTS AMARE. Oh they'll steal him from us, but no one has shown they want him.

We don't have to sell, and if we have to, it doesn't have to be him.

This is our LAST big chip. If you let it go for less than equal value like it's been in just about every trade except J. Rich, for the last few years, we're screwed.

Else in 3 years there is a great chance it'll just be another JJ trade. Nothing or very little to show for it, except earning the right to be televised at halftime of some playoff game with Kerr crossing his fingers we win the lottery just like the year before, and at that point in time when looking at the roster, overall knowing he'd be back next year doing the same thing.

I don't want Kobe, but you know what, if we trade Amare and isn't a Kobe, Lebron, Garnett then we'll be screwed. For a long, long time.

Some of us seem to forget how hard it is to get talent. We had talent, and let it get away for nothing. We trade Amare for two 3rd tier talents, and a draft pick (that you know will be sold). Our well would be dry, with people clueless on how to restock it.

$arver still is learning the ropes at our expense of how hard it is to get talent, especially the quality of Amare. How rare it is. Once again he'll learn after the mistake.

Don't trade Amare. Only for equal or greater value. Screw the 'but we MIGHT be better overall because we got TWO third tier talent guy and a draft pick in two years, but lose a top 5 nba player.'

Sometimes it seems Amare isn't playing too hard, true, but his body will be in great shape for when his head 'gets it' in about 4-5 years. It won't be broken down. When Amare's experience catches up with his athleticism, we'll be the ones who teethed him the first 60 percent of that time to get him there. He'll win his championship's elsewhere. That is, if we trade him.

That was part of the reasoning of the Marion deal, we traded a 30 year old, for a 35-36 year old. We got something that might of helped us, or that was the thought. But in terms of 'building a team' we let go a HUGE piece. People were shocked that we didn't get someone YOUNG and GOOD.

Bad idea to trade
Worse idea to trade for someone old
But it's the worst to then trade your best young player after that

In trades, the good teams in a 3 for 1 deal, they get the ONE, not the three.

Never trade 1 for 3, always trade 3 for 1. That's how you build a franchise. You go 1 for 3, you aren't building squat.

 

[NYCCavsFan]

I don't want Kobe, but you know what, if we trade Amare and isn't a Kobe, Lebron, Garnett then we'll be screwed. For a long, long time.

Don't trade Amare. Only for equal or greater value. Screw the 'but we MIGHT be better overall because we got TWO third tier talent guy and a draft pick in two years, but lose a top 5 nba player.'

Never trade 1 for 3, always trade 3 for 1. That's how you build a franchise. You go 1 for 3, you aren't building squat.

I don't mean to pile on, but you really need to put things in perspective. Amare is by no means a top 5 player in the NBA. And if you think you're going to get even a top 10 player for him then you're kidding yourself.

In all seriousness, Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, Paul, Howard, Wade, Jefferson, Pierce, etc all have more value than Stoudemire.

That's not to say Stoudemire isn't a great player. He averages 20+ and 8 boards, but he has a reputation for playing VERY little defense. On top of that he's had knee issues in the past and could potentially be under contract for only the next year and a half.

There are other factors that MUST be considered. In this case it's a very challenging economy and an owner who's been hit particularly hard by the down turn. Trading 3 for 1 is usually a move that results in taking on salary not just in dollars, but in years. So with such uncertainty surrounding the economy, it's no surprise that some owners are looking to reduce costs by cutting salary.

Just something to consider when you're focusing on the "fair value" of a player.

 

[lou_skywalker]

yeah and i think financially amare is really hurting sarver with the luxury tax so they might still trade him although the return value is not that high.

 

[CardsFan88]

I don't mean to pile on, but you really need to put things in perspective. Amare is by no means a top 5 player in the NBA. And if you think you're going to get even a top 10 player for him then you're kidding yourself.

In all seriousness, Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, Paul, Howard, Wade, Jefferson, Pierce, etc all have more value than Stoudemire.

That's not to say Stoudemire isn't a great player. He averages 20+ and 8 boards, but he has a reputation for playing VERY little defense. On top of that he's had knee issues in the past and could potentially be under contract for only the next year and a half.

There are other factors that MUST be considered. In this case it's a very challenging economy and an owner who's been hit particularly hard by the down turn. Trading 3 for 1 is usually a move that results in taking on salary not just in dollars, but in years. So with such uncertainty surrounding the economy, it's no surprise that some owners are looking to reduce costs by cutting salary.

Just something to consider when you're focusing on the "fair value" of a player.

I understand the perspective of if you need to make a trade you won't get that. But you don't trade him unless it is a deal like that. If that's not the market because of this or that, then don't trade him even if they want to because it's a bad time to.

Sure those players have more value, but not by much. Amare has years on his side, it doesn't make sense for the Celtics to trade him for KG, but if KG wasn't on the celtics, or a select other few teams, it would make sense for KG's GM to trade him for Amare.

Value can change year in and year out, but so do GM's.

Most GM's can add 2 years to his life of being a GM by landing Amare. Don't underestimate that.

Amare is worth a fortune. Only a select few are worth more, and not by much.

You have to believe that the team Amare goes to is one that he'll sign an extension with, so that is out the window. Otherwise it's already a deal that's worth it by their GM handing over so much. If they want that deal, it's their worry about Amare, it no longer would be our problem.

Again, so if the economy would alter a deal, then do no deal.

We don't have to get rid of him. 'Fair Value' isn't fair. It's market value in the now. As an owner, $arver would have only his own thoughts to blame him for consummating a deal when market value isn't fair value. Amare is Amare, we hold the cards. It's ultimately up to someone else to pry him away, otherwise you happily build around him, even if he isn't perfect.