Cards withdrew Holliday offer

[40yearfan]

Holliday accepts Chiefs' offer

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 8, 2003 12:00 AM


Defensive end Vonnie Holliday was the first player the Cardinals called when free agency started Feb. 28, and they waited patiently for weeks while he shopped his services to other teams.

But their patience ran out last weekend when talks between Holliday's agent, Brian Levy, and the Kansas City Chiefs heated up. Convinced Holliday didn't want to play for them, the Cardinals withdrew their offer, and Holliday agreed to terms Monday with the Chiefs.

Holliday's decision means the Cardinals will have to use the draft to improve a pass rush that's produced just 40 sacks the past two seasons.

"I'm hoping we will be able to come away with at least two defensive linemen in the draft," said Rod Graves, Cardinals vice president of football operations. "What we're focused primarily on is a pass rusher."

Holliday agreed to a five-year, $21.3 million contract with the Chiefs. That includes an option payment of $5 million before the third season. Kansas City isn't likely to exercise that, so the contract is really a two-year deal worth about $6 million.

The Cardinals were offering a deal worth an average of about $4 million a year.




Still alive for Seau


The Cardinals remain interested in obtaining San Diego linebacker Junior Seau, but any potential trade is complicated by a $2.7 million bonus Seau is due April 15. That money is guaranteed.

Seau's agent, Marvin Demoff, denied a report last week that his client had declined a deal involving the Cardinals. Demoff did not return a phone call Monday, but he has been in contact with Cardinals officials.

It's unlikely the Cardinals, or any other team, would trade for Seau before April 15 and assume the $2.7 million obligation. More likely, a team would have to obtain Seau in a sign-and-trade arrangement.

Seau and Demoff have been given permission to pursue a trade, and the Cardinals would like for Seau to visit at some point.




Pass key


Running back Emmitt Smith arrived at the Cardinals' Tempe headquarters at 6:45 Monday morning and worked out until 11 a.m., coach Dave McGinnis said.

Smith and his wife, Pat, came to the team's complex Sunday but didn't have a key to get in. Jerry Hardaway, the team's national scouting coordinator, and Rodd Newhouse, the pro personnel assistant, let Smith in, and the couple took a tour of the facility.


Back to the future


Veteran receiver Tony Martin, who didn't play last season, is scheduled to work out today with the Cardinals.

A veteran of 13 NFL seasons, Martin hasn't played since being released by Atlanta before the final game of the 2002 season.

Martin played in San Diego when Cardinals offensive coordinator Jerry Sullivan was the receivers coach for the Chargers.

Under Sullivan, Martin tied for the NFL lead with 14 touchdown receptions in 1996 and made the Pro Bowl.

The Cardinals have a dearth of veteran wide receivers and are curious about what Martin, 37, has left. Even if Martin has an impressive workout, the Cardinals probably would wait until after the draft to decide whether to sign him.

 

[mizzoucardfan]

This makes me feel much better about the Holliday situation. I didn't personally know enough about Holliday to make a judgement about how good he is. However, I have to commend the Cardinals for telling him to crap or get off the pot & when he still wavered they jerked the rug out from under him. I think that the way the Cardinals have handled free agency sends a message to players that the Cardinals will make fair offers but they're not going to be able to be jerked around out of perceived desperation.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Good post, Mizzou, I agree.
Yes it would have been nice to have Holliday, but I also think a lot of people may have been over estimating the impact he would have had on the team.

Personally I felt the Cards were offering him a little too much, but with circumstances being what they are, I guess they could afford to do that a little.

I too like the fact that they pulled the offer on Holliday. Somewhere you have to draw the line and say...."enough".
Too many times in the past the cards have been patsy's to free agents who came in here and basically just used them as an escalator in the bargaining process. Screw these greedy jerks.
I'm glad to see the stance the Cards took with both Kordell and Holliday. They gave them more than fair offers and acted in a manner NOT in desperation. Good on them.

People have said what a good leader Holliday is. I'll believe it when I see it. He just looks like another run-of-the-mill, greedy, me, me, me guy to me. I hope he enjoys his little stay in Vermeil Land. I'd say the Cards defense, as bad as it may be, is still better than KC's.

 

[SweetD]

Hip Hip Hurray! Way to go Cards. Good to see them tell Holliday to go play in the flat lands and cold weather. No about JR, I still wouldn't mind seeing him in a Cards uni next year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The people that were calling for us to pull the offer got their wish!

I thought about this today, and I came to the realization that the Cards did the right thing. If the guy is going to hold out on us, and look for every offer out there and make us wait when obviously he doesn't want to come here, screw him.

He is not that good anyway, and he is now an overpaid player. I mean think about it, does anything he has every done make you think that he would've been markedly better than KVB?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr


People have said what a good leader Holliday is. I'll believe it when I see it. He just looks like another run-of-the-mill, greedy, me, me, me guy to me. I hope he enjoys his little stay in Vermeil Land. I'd say the Cards defense, as bad as it may be, is still better than KC's.

On what do you base Holliday being a "me, me, me guy"? Oh and about the Chiefs D - funny - it didn't look that way to me as we were SHUTOUT by them last year and we gave up 49 points! In 11's thread about poster awards I do have to agree with you - You are tTHE number #1 Homer on the board and actually I am going to stop disparaging what I think are unrealistic remarks from you anymore because I just had a moment of clarity - you believe in this organization and that is exactly what this team needs - fans who believe - sadly I'm not there and I have to see something on the field or in personell moves that I agree with before I get there - but I appreciate your die-hard never say boo nature. (all this was written in complete seriousness - not sarcasm just in case you were wondering).

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
On what do you base Holliday being a "me, me, me guy"?
Wake up Cheesy.....where have you been? I base it on how he conducted himself during the past month. Now I don't profess to be any great expert on Vonnie Holliday....I'm not a cheesehead. I can only go on what I HAVE seen. Which is nothing to impress me at this point.
Oh and about the Chiefs D - funny - it didn't look that way to me as we were SHUTOUT by them last year and we gave up 49 points!
You know Cheesy, you are such an easy mark. You have this tendancy to put your mouth in gear before your brain is engaged.
There's not too much that can be said in support of a 49-0 ass kicking. But over the course of the entire season the Chiefs were the lowest rated defensive team in the NFL. They gave up an average of 390.5 yards per game. The Cards weren't a whole lot better, they gave up 376.2, but they were 4 notches up the ratings from KC. The Chiefs gave up 22.9 first downs per game the Cards 20.9. The only stat that KC was better at was sacks 34-21....no big surprise there. Other than that the teams were not that far apart. Both held opponents to under 17 points 4 times, while KC allowed more than 30 points 7 times while the Cards were one better with 6. KC had 18 ints. while the Cards had 17.
So I stick by my original statement:
"I'd say the Cards defense, as bad as it may be, is still better than KC's."

I also consider the KC game the lowlight of the year last year. The team had just come off a real beating at the hands of the Raiders. Sanders and Kendall went down the first half of that game. The injury situation had really crippled the team offensively. As I pointed out after the game, KC's offense had been running up high scores on everyone. Scoring 49 points against ANYONE was not that much out of the ordinary for them. What really hurt was the big goose egg from the offense.
To use that one game as an example of the overalll defense situation of the Cards is asinine at best.
It would seem that perhaps YOU are the one with perceptual problems.

Personally I'd take the Cards defense over the Chiefs right now. Until they prove otherwise, the Chiefs are the reigning worst rated defensive team in the NFL.

In 11's thread about poster awards I do have to agree with you - You are tTHE number #1 Homer on the board and actually I am going to stop disparaging what I think are unrealistic remarks from you anymore because I just had a moment of clarity - you believe in this organization and that is exactly what this team needs - fans who believe - sadlyyou see...I don't have to be sad about my attitude towards the team. I enjoy being a Card fan. Granted its not always easy, but so what?
I like most of the players on the team now, I like the coaches, I like what I generally see being done by the organization the last almost 3 years. Of course I want to the the W-L record improve, and I have faith it will. Ain't nothing to feel bad about to me. I'm not there and I have to see something on the field or in personell moves that I agree with before I get there - but I appreciate your die-hard never say boo nature. (all this was written in complete seriousness - not sarcasm just in case you were wondering).

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
The people that were calling for us to pull the offer got their wish!

I thought about this today, and I came to the realization that the Cards did the right thing. If the guy is going to hold out on us, and look for every offer out there and make us wait when obviously he doesn't want to come here, screw him.

He is not that good anyway, and he is now an overpaid player. I mean think about it, does anything he has every done make you think that he would've been markedly better than KVB?

I am not sure I wanted them to outright pull the offer but I was calling for them to issue an ultimatum...sign by this time or we do pull the offer. Clearly it was the right thing to do. The Cards were going to overpay for a guy who, quite frankly, isn't all that great. He is ok but nothing special. Green Bay didn't think enough of him to try very hard to get him to stay...and their D is pretty poor too. They put up with his crap and decided he isn't worth it any longer. I watch enough Packers games and spend time each year in Green Bay and they are shedding no tears for him being gone.

Krnag, I do disagree slightly in your last statement. I do think Holliday is more than marginally better than KVB of last year. The question is once KVB comes in this year back to 100%, what can he do and I submit if he does come back in at the level he went out with the injury, then the improvement still would have been there with Holliday, it just wouldn't have been as dramatic.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr

So because of stats - KC D is worse than us? How come stats in your opinion could never tell the story as far as Jake was concerned? Why is it you can use stats in certain arguments but not in others which don't support you theories? The fact that KC played in the toughest division in football against some of the best offenses in't taken into consideration is it Tango? Look I think the Chiefs D stunk - but they have upgraded their D talent and of yet, I haven't seen the same from us. At least their defense was capable of shutting out an absolutely pathteic team -Hell - our defense probably would have given up 20 points to Houston last year. Call me an easy mark all you want - but what you are talking about with KC is a matter of opinion and skeiwng facts - but I expect nothing less. Go Cards!

 

[WizardOfAz]

From ProFootball Weekly

April 8, 2003


Chiefs sign Holliday; Morton ends up with Redskins; Bucs sign Rudd

ProFootballWeekly.com asks executive editor Dan Arkush for his thoughts on the hottest topics around the NFL:

DE Vonnie Holliday signs with Chiefs

Following in the footsteps of LB Shawn Barber and CB Dexter McCleon, DE Vonnie Holliday is the latest free-agent addition to the Chiefs’ defense after signing a five-year, $21.3 million contract, including $6.3 million in signing bonus and salaries the first two years. The deal also includes a $5 million roster bonus after the second year that could enable Holliday to revisit free agency after his second season with the Chiefs. The 27-year-old Holliday, who had rejected a deal worth more than $4 million a year to stay in Green Bay last season, has 32 career sacks, with six fumble recoveries and 18 passes defensed. The former first-round pick of the Packers figures to start at right end for the Chiefs but is flexible enough to play inside.

PFW: Is this a good move by the Chiefs?

Arkush: The big key is Holliday’s health. When he’s feeling right, as was the case in his five-sack performance vs. Buffalo late last season, he can be damn near dominant. But there are genuine concerns about the injury problems that have limited him the last couple of seasons. If Holliday can stay in the lineup, though, I think the Chiefs’ defense should be significantly improved. Not only is he a solid run stuffer who can provide steady pressure, he also provides the Chiefs with added flexibility both on the field — because of his ability to play tackle — and in the draft room, where the Chiefs were expected to spend their first-round pick on a playmaking force on the edge before landing Holliday. Considering the state of their defense last year, it wouldn’t be the worst move if K.C. drafted another quality defensive lineman with the 16th selection overall in the draft, but if I were the Chiefs, I would focus more on using that pick to further strengthen the secondary. Another quality corner who can make an instant impact would really come in handy right about now.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Spins/2003/spin040803.htm

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

btw, all of you lauding the cards for "pulling the offer" - c'mon, they only did this when it became apparent that vonnie and chiefs were on the verge of agreeing to a contract. that's like talking tough to a bully when he can't hear you any longer.

tango - you're just smack-my-ass-and-call-me-slappy crazy.