Cards coach to CofC: Expect 10-6 year

[Redsz]

Nice posts Shark and seesred.

It's good to read two posts that make so much sense.

Rather than the usual drivel of green is on crack, we don't have enough talent blah blah bloody blah blah.

 

[maddogkf]

Check out Belicheck's record in CLE.

This DG hate is so apparent it's sickening.

This is exactly what Viking fans are like.

When DG turns the Cards DON'T BOTHER JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON.

You wanted him fired BEFORE training camp.

What a great fan you are.

VF - I don't want him to be fired. Calm your ass down. This is why you were banned. 10-6 IMO is not a do-able goal. If you've been following this team for the past 15+ years, you'd know that.

9-7 maybe. 8-8 sure. Next year 10-6? You betcha.

No one here said they wanted him fired.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Personally, I think Green is on crack. But at the same time, in order to change a culture of losing, you have to make your team expect to win.

We'll end up short of ten wins, but at least Green is expecting success, not 8-8 teams like Rod does.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Personally, I think Green is on crack. But at the same time, in order to change a culture of losing, you have to make your team expect to win.

We'll end up short of ten wins, but at least Green is expecting success, not 8-8 teams like Rod does.

The Maximium effort that DG puts forth is the minimium he can expect from his players. So that said its nice to see him make challanges to his team. One never knows how a season will play out... remember on any given Sunday...

 

[BigRedMO]

I guess that lack of talent knock is directed at me. Just exactly how many players do the Cards have that have made a Pro Bowl game? I am not talking about former Cardinals. There are plenty of those. Last in points scored and last in points allowed. That is a fact. I guess you believe we had a playoff caliber team and McGinnis kept the team out of the playoffs? A team that does not have most of its 1st and 2nd round picks from last few years starting for it is talent poor. Look at the Cards from mid the 70s and mid 80s. Their roster was made up of a large number of its own draft picks. Setting expectations with the players is fine. What other NFL coach has gone into a season telling the world how many games they will win? That is a prediction he is almost guaranteed on being wrong. Being wrong is not a habit he should start.

For you guys who think the Cards are going to be 10-6 because Green says so I have some RE for you. It has plenty of water. Green is a buddy of mine and he says it is awesome. So why dont you just come on down and buy it sight unseen? If you believe something only because someone tells you so without doing your own analysis and reaching your own conclusions you are a fool.

 

[maddogkf]

Dude, on FTB today, Jurecki dedicated his "Put Down The Kool-Aid" song to Coach Green. It was hilarious. Jurecki said that Green could listen to it in his Range Rover while he drives around town. I laughed hard when he played it.

I heard that. Everytime I hear that drum beat lead-in, I start cracking up!!!

 

[CardShark]

BigRedMo,

Nothing was aimed at you. It was a simple synopsis of how you turn around a flailing organization. As for the Cards not having many ProBowl players on their team, I wouldn't expect them to. That comes with winning and/or being at the top of your position as was Mr. Boldin. Remember that players are voted in. What I was referring to was that Green has to change the mindset of the team. People generally achieve what they believe they can. If he can get them to believe in him, his system and that if they work his system as designed then they will start winning and more and more players will be selected to the ProBowl. We may have very talented players here that have not been cultivated to their full potential.
Now one might argue that the Cards went into last season undefeated from the preseason and that should have given them plenty of confidence yet they fell prey to their actual talent level. That wasn't really the case. Their confidence level was tenuous at best. They had just learned another new system under the same coaching staff. That signals that the staff is experimenting. That system was also designed to try and protect the weak areas, which actually diminishes the overall confidence of the team. When the Cards were humiliated in Detriot, it shattered any level of confidence. Even though it wasn't Detroit that beat them, it was themselves. At that point, the players braced themselves for a losing season, even if they never admitted it. The coaching staff didn't know how to respond other than to fall back and experiment some more, which signals to the players that the coaches don't have a system that they really believe in.
Now what Green is selling to the team is that he has a system that works and there is enough talent here to make that system work. He has a track record that he can show them. He's telling them that he will not change his system because of the teams percieved talent level. That sends a message to the players that maybe this guy knows what he's talking about and if he's saying that we are talented enough to make the playoffs, then why would we argue that? This is laying the foundation for a competitive organization.
The Cards might not make the playoffs this year, but to have any chance they must first believe that they can. The talent level will go up over time but alot of it may be coming from players already on the team. Keep in mind that having the best percieved talent does not automatically translate into championships. Just ask the Lakers and the Redskins. And if you ask championship teams what made the difference, I'll wager most of them will say it was their level of confidence.

 

[BigRedMO]

Card Shark

I was responding to Redsz comment. Green did not believe he had enough talent to run his system. He drafted Fitzgerald in an area the team already had relative strength because he needed him to run his system. That is what I am reading at this site.

Redsz- "Rather than the usual drivel of green is on crack, we don't have enough talent blah blah bloody blah blah."

 

[SECTION 11]

I also know that to win in the NFL you have to have a credible running game.

I agree with this, definately.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Personally, I think Green is on crack. But at the same time, in order to change a culture of losing, you have to make your team expect to win.

We'll end up short of ten wins, but at least Green is expecting success, not 8-8 teams like Rod does.

FYI...

MAO TOSI was cut by the Montreal Alouettes of the CFL last week... and any fan of his is most definitely on something illicit.

 

[CardShark]

Card Shark

I was responding to Redsz comment. Green did not believe he had enough talent to run his system. He drafted Fitzgerald in an area the team already had relative strength because he needed him to run his system. That is what I am reading at this site.

Redsz- "Rather than the usual drivel of green is on crack, we don't have enough talent blah blah bloody blah blah."

Sorry

 

[mary]

Fitz was the BPA. DG doesn't draft for need he drafts BPA. We still have to explain this. DG needs 3 WRs to run his offense. This has been discussed to death and still some people don't get it. It's DG system. If you think his system is going to fail then you should want him to be fired as quickly as possible since the longer a failed system is in place the longer it will take to remove it once the new coach comes in.

And winning the SB is meaningless Ditka and Switzer won SBs neither is a good NFL coach. If you want to look at coaching the key is a coach who gets you the chance to win a SB. Look at the Vikes since DG left no chance with DG 8 chances in 10 years. The whole Cards organization is being recreated to be in contention for the SB every year.

 

[maddogkf]

Fitz was the BPA. DG doesn't draft for need he drafts BPA. We still have to explain this. DG needs 3 WRs to run his offense. This has been discussed to death and still some people don't get it. It's DG system. If you think his system is going to fail then you should want him to be fired as quickly as possible since the longer a failed system is in place the longer it will take to remove it once the new coach comes in.

And winning the SB is meaningless Ditka and Switzer won SBs neither is a good NFL coach. If you want to look at coaching the key is a coach who gets you the chance to win a SB. Look at the Vikes since DG left no chance with DG 8 chances in 10 years. The whole Cards organization is being recreated to be in contention for the SB every year.

I agree we took Fitz because A) BPA B) this guy fitz in with the new O C) playmaker

 

[ajcardfan]

Actually, I think this prediction is low risk, very high reward for Green. If we fall short, how bad can it really be for him? Very few truly expect a big turnaround in one year. But, imagine if he pulls it off. He'd be the closest thing to the second coming around here. When was the last time the Cardinals won 10 games? It sure wasn't in Arizona.

 

[SECTION 11]

When was the last time the Cardinals won 10 games? It sure wasn't in Arizona.

1976, they went 10-4.

That is just disgusting.

 

[Jim O]

1976, they went 10-4.

That is just disgusting.

That was the year I was born! It sucks that the last time we won 10, I don't have any memories of it!

 

[ajcardfan]

1976, they went 10-4.

That is just disgusting.

Man, that is totally amazing. The Clippers have made the playoffs more than the Cardinals during that time frame.

And that is exactly why this prediction could be a total stroke of brillance if it actually comes true.

 

[JC_AZ]

Confidence breeds confidence

I coached baseball for over 15 years, and many of those years I had players not rated the best talent...the "attitude is everything", the "believe in yourself", "believe in your teammates" approach I took to building winning seasons ALWAYS evolved beyond the "perceived" level of talent.
Someone earlier mentioned that maybe we had talented players that were not properly taught or motivated... there is more to that concept than is given credit...creating high expectations and challenging goals is never wrong if your seriously make the ATTEMPT to accomplish them. The only way goals can be percevied as achievable in an organization/team is if the boss/coach can make you believe they are achievable and that they will do everything in their power to give you the tools you need to be successful...
I have been a STH for 16 years and I realize that the goal that DG has defined is beyond our normal expectation and maybe a little lofty for his first season with such young TALENT, however, I also realize in my 16 years as a STH, this is also the FIRST time we have a LEGITIMATE HC... so I can just wait and see how it plays out, but I can also believe that we will truly have the OPPORTUNITY to exceed MANY people's expecations...

Just my two cents....

 

[Redheart]

I coached baseball for over 15 years, and many of those years I had players not rated the best talent...the "attitude is everything", the "believe in yourself", "believe in your teammates" approach I took to building winning seasons ALWAYS evolved beyond the "perceived" level of talent.
Someone earlier mentioned that maybe we had talented players that were not properly taught or motivated... there is more to that concept than is given credit...creating high expectations and challenging goals is never wrong if your seriously make the ATTEMPT to accomplish them. The only way goals can be percevied as achievable in an organization/team is if the boss/coach can make you believe they are achievable and that they will do everything in their power to give you the tools you need to be successful...
I have been a STH for 16 years and I realize that the goal that DG has defined is beyond our normal expectation and maybe a little lofty for his first season with such young TALENT, however, I also realize in my 16 years as a STH, this is also the FIRST time we have a LEGITIMATE HC... so I can just wait and see how it plays out, but I can also believe that we will truly have the OPPORTUNITY to exceed MANY people's expecations...

Just my two cents....

STH?

let me think...super talent habenero...sexully trasmitted herpe...softball throwing he-man...I am sorry, but I don't know that acronym.

Otherwise...good post!

 

[JC_AZ]

Sth

Season Ticket Holder... Sorry

and Thanks!

 

[maddogkf]

Actually, I think this prediction is low risk, very high reward for Green. If we fall short, how bad can it really be for him? Very few truly expect a big turnaround in one year. But, imagine if he pulls it off. He'd be the closest thing to the second coming around here. When was the last time the Cardinals won 10 games? It sure wasn't in Arizona.

10-8 if you count playoffs in 98. So technically, technically, it was in Az.



It's Friday...

 

[slanidrac16]

to any post to reply, so here are some random thoughts.....

I'd rather hear 10 wins than to hear we are rebuilding for the future. IN 71' we were 4-9-1....in 72' we were 4-9-1....in 73' , you guessed it, we were 4-9-1. In 74? 10-4!!!

I have said it before, and I loved Mac, but this team was under coached and over matched EVERY WEEK. We will now see players put in a position to succeed. Coaching is worth at least 4 games a year.

Anybody bitchin about choosing Larry Fitzgerald, read this. What in the hell makes you think we were "so strong" at this position? How much better would ANY other player chosen have made us? Would taking a less talented player at DT put your mind at ease about this up coming season. AND HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU FITZ NAYSAYERS TO BLAST GREEN AND THE ORGINIZATION FOR NOTTAKING HIM IF HE TURNS OUT TO BE ANOTHER RANDY MOSS? Truth is when you draft, especially in the top 5, you take the surest thing. Larry Fitzgerald makes this team and offense better TODAY. He will play a key role in making us strong on the offensive side of the board. Our offense is the key to making us competitive TODAY. The defense will be the next project.

 

[BigRedMO]

Slanidrac,

If you focus on win loss record exclusively for 71 to 73 you are missing the picture. To win, regardless of who is coaching you have to draft and retain talent. The Cards did that in 69-73:

1969
#1 Roger Wehrli

1970
#8 Tom Banks

1971
#2 Dan Dierdorf
#6 Mel Gray

1972
#2 Mark Arneson
#5 Conrad Dobler

1973
#3 Terry Metcalf

That is 3/5 of one of the best offensive lines in NFL history. They traded for Bob Young in 72 giving 4 of the 5. There is also an excellent RB and WR drafted in that period. Six of seven of those guys played in Pro Bowls. That has a lot to do with the Cards, particularly their offense, getting good in 73. If you had just looked at records the rise of the Cardiac Cards would not have been predicted. There has to be an increase in the level of talent. The Cards have not done nearly that well in recent years. They have a severe talent deficit that will take time to fix.

Every football magazine I have seen rate WR as the single strength of the team. Many of those magazines wonder about selecting in an area of strength. I believe in the traditional method that bad teams should draft to fill biggest needs. That is the only area the Cards had a talent recognized as such by the rest of the league. Last year's pick of Bryant has not panned out. Are we just going to keep focusing on this area to the exclusion of the true NEED areas?

Plus a WR needs a QB to get the ball to him. We spare no expense on the WR position and go cheap at QB. That point is also being wondered at by professional analysts.

 

[joeshmo]

Every football magazine I have seen rate WR as the single strength of the team. Many of those magazines wonder about selecting in an area of strength. I believe in the traditional method that bad teams should draft to fill biggest needs. Last year's pick of Bryant has not panned out.

Yet all of those magazines still liked the pick. All of them say something to this effect, "although WR wasnt a real area of need Fitz is a good, safe, and sure pick and will help to make the Cards O into an explosive O". Plus they are basing those needs in the typical 2 WR sense not the 3 wide set that will be our base.

As for bad teams should only draft to fill there biggest needs, that is exactly how we keep on having so many busts and reaches and why some teams just dont get out of the top 10 year after year, becuase they are always reaching for guys trying to fill so called needs when there are more sure things and better playmakers to pick from. Just look at the year we picked Jones. Urlacher was the far better player to pick from but becuase we had McKinnon and we really needed a RB we passed. Or in 2003 we needed to fill a lot of holes and instead of picking the best available player like Suggs or Lefty we traded down to fill more needs.

And if as you say that Bryant hasnt panned out which is very highly debateable, then why do you or the magazines call WR an area of strength. Boldin alone doesnt make it an area of strength, do they really like Kasper and Poole, I think not. So if Bryant really hasnt panned out then why not pick Fitz for our 3 wide set which is Greens bread and butter. Nice contradiction you got going for yourself.

Your hatred(for lack of a better word) of McCown and you really wanting to draft Ben Roth is greatly clouding your judgement on this issue IMO.

 

[BigRedMO]

Talent assessment and develpment has been a problem. If you draft best player available or by need you have to be able to assess talent. I do not recall seeing Urlacher revive the Bears.