Bradley Beal Departure Thread

[Mainstreet]

JJ has made mistakes and shouldn’t be GM but this entire experiment is a Mat Ishbia production. JJ doesn’t just randomly go from conservative GM to running the team like a video game. If Ishbia never takes over John Collins is a Sun not KD, imo.

Don't you think James Jones hung onto Crowder for so long because he was chasing after a trade for Durant?

At least this is what I thought.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Get rid of his lazy ass get someone who wants to be a suns

 

[GatorAZ]

Don't you think James Jones hung onto Crowder for so long because he was chasing after a trade for Durant?

At least this is what I thought.

Or Collins idk…. The whole Crowder thing was amateur hour with Monty.

 

[Mainstreet]

Or Collins idk…. The whole Crowder thing was amateur hour with Monty.

IMO, James Jones held onto Crowder to use as a chip in the Durant trade.

 

[GatorAZ]

IMO, James Jones held onto Crowder to use as a chip in the Durant trade.

I never got the sense he was chasing an all or nothing trade for that price. Did he want KD without including everything that we gave up? I’d imagine so. The difference was Ishbia.
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[Mainstreet]

I never got the sense he was chasing an all or nothing trade for that price. Did he want KD without including everything that we gave up? I’d imagine so. The difference was Ishbia.
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I view Mat Ishbia's role as supporting and approving the trade for Durant otherwise it doesn't get done.

Why did James Jones hang onto Crowder and other expiring contracts (Saric) if not to facilitate and assist the trade for Durant?

 

[GatorAZ]

I view Mat Ishbia's role as supporting and approving the trade for Durant otherwise it doesn't get done.

Why did James Jones hang onto Crowder and other expiring contracts (Saric) if not to facilitate and assist the trade for Durant?

Before Ishbia took over the package JJ was “reportedly” offering wasn’t enough. Then Ishbia takes over and the rest is history.
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Suns acquire Kevin Durant from Nets in blockbuster deal

Phoenix is acquiring Brooklyn's Kevin Durant and T.J. Warren in exchange for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder, four first-round picks and a 2028 pick swap.

www.espn.com

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You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Hoop Head]

Before Ishbia took over the package JJ was “reportedly” offering wasn’t enough. Then Ishbia takes over and the rest is history.
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Suns acquire Kevin Durant from Nets in blockbuster deal

Phoenix is acquiring Brooklyn's Kevin Durant and T.J. Warren in exchange for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder, four first-round picks and a 2028 pick swap.

www.espn.com

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You must be registered for see images attach

And that's where I see Ishbia being more willing to commit to the financial aspect vs Sarver as a significant shift. Price was too high under Sarver, fine under Ishbia. We had different budgets. That's all been documented and verifiable fact. How we each choose to see things beyond that is individual because that's where public information stops and we're left deciphering what happened.

 

[Mainstreet]

Before Ishbia took over the package JJ was “reportedly” offering wasn’t enough. Then Ishbia takes over and the rest is history.
.

Suns acquire Kevin Durant from Nets in blockbuster deal

Phoenix is acquiring Brooklyn's Kevin Durant and T.J. Warren in exchange for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder, four first-round picks and a 2028 pick swap.

www.espn.com

.

You must be registered for see images attach

Again, that Durant trade was in the oven for a long time… all season.

A person should be careful what they wish for, lest they get it. I have no doubt the Suns explored other trades.

What's frustrating is there were other trades to made then or during the coming summer, but they wanted one for the trophy room while Crowder sat at home.

Neither the GM or owner have clean hands as far as I'm concerned.

 

[GatorAZ]

And that's where I see Ishbia being more willing to commit to the financial aspect vs Sarver as a significant shift. Price was too high under Sarver, fine under Ishbia. We had different budgets. That's all been documented and verifiable fact. How we each choose to see things beyond that is individual because that's where public information stops and we're left deciphering what happened.

Ishbia is running this franchise like a video game with no regard for salary or fit. Much like Isiah ran the Knicks. Believe what you want.

 

[GatorAZ]

Again, that Durant trade was in the oven for a long time… all season.

A person should be careful what they wish for, lest they get it. I have no doubt the Suns explored other trades.

What's frustrating is there were other trades to made then or during the coming summer, but they wanted one for the trophy room while Crowder sat at home.

Neither the GM or owner have clean hands as far as I'm concerned.

That’s why I posted the old Gambo tweet. He said the Suns were unwilling to include everything when KD initially requested out that summer.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ishbia is running this franchise like a video game with no regard for salary or fit. Much like Isiah ran the Knicks. Believe what you want.

If you want to thrust the blame on just the owner for the Durant trade, tell me about James Jones and the 2020 draft, then trading a first round pick for Landry Shamet and the Ayton trade?

 

[Hoop Head]

Ishbia is running this franchise like a video game with no regard for salary or fit. Much like Isiah ran the Knicks. Believe what you want.

And under JJ's time as GM there hasn't been a single move made where he alone can take credit for it. Every single move, good or bad, has someone else who can be blamed if it doesn't work out. Dude is a master politician. It's actually impressive he's somehow pulled it off for so long.

 

[Mainstreet]

That’s why I posted the old Gambo tweet. He said the Suns were unwilling to include everything when KD initially requested out that summer.

They both can be true at the same time.

I don't think even Sarver would have traded Bridges because he reportedly wanted Ryan McDonough to trade for him instead of pursuing a trade for Shai.

 

[GatorAZ]

If you want to thrust the blame on just the owner, tell me about James Jones and the 2020 draft, then trading a first round pick for Landry Shamet and the Ayton trade?

How did you feel about the state of the franchise going from the finals one year and a franchise record 64 wins the next year? Was Ishbia running the team then? I won’t argue the Haliburton draft or not trading Ayton earlier. If anything JJ wasn’t aggressive enough. He should’ve traded for Eric Gordon when he was easily available in 2022.

 

[GatorAZ]

And under JJ's time as GM there hasn't been a single move made where he alone can take credit for it. Every single move, good or bad, has someone else who can be blamed if it doesn't work out. Dude is a master politician. It's actually impressive he's somehow pulled it off for so long.

I don’t even know what this means.

 

[Hoop Head]

They both can be true at the same time.

I don't think even Sarver would have traded Bridges because he reportedly wanted Ryan McDonough to trade for him instead of pursuing a trade for Shai.

I don't think Sarver wanted to pay the money it would cost to appease Durant long term. IIRC the rumored offer under Sarver was Ayton and Cam for KD, so a max player and a rookie in need of an extension for KD, which is close to even money. Picks would be involved but since Brooklyn didn't want Ayton, we were stuck.


The financials and tax level shot up when you swapped out Ayton for Bridges, which is something Sarver wouldn't sign off on for the bottom line alone. There's absolutely zero chance Sarver would have added to the tax bill. He wouldn't even retain Javale McGee for another year because Ayton and Bridges extension had us in the tax. We needed a backup C still and Javale proved to be a good regular season backup, if nothing else.

 

[Mainstreet]

How did you feel about the state of the franchise going from the finals one year and a franchise record 64 wins the next year? Was Ishbia running the team then? I won’t argue the Haliburton draft or not trading Ayton earlier. If anything JJ wasn’t aggressive enough. He should’ve traded for Eric Gordon when he was easily available in 2022.

Going from 64 wins to 45 wins looks pretty good right now. All the while, Jame Jones sat on assets to make the Durant trade happen.

I don't think the Suns front office fully appreciated the value of Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, the four unprotected first round draft picks and swaps plus the value of Jae Crowder.

Or worse yet, maybe they did and did it anyway.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think Sarver wanted to pay the money it would cost to appease Durant long term. IIRC the rumored offer under Sarver was Ayton and Cam for KD, so a max player and a rookie in need of an extension for KD, which is close to even money. Picks would be involved but since Brooklyn didn't want Ayton, we were stuck.


The financials and tax level shot up when you swapped out Ayton for Bridges, which is something Sarver wouldn't sign off on for the bottom line alone. There's absolutely zero chance Sarver would have added to the tax bill. He wouldn't even retain Javale McGee for another year because Ayton and Bridges extension had us in the tax. We needed a backup C still and Javale proved to be a good regular season backup, if nothing else.

I guess there is something to be said for Sarver after all. You are right about Ayton. His trade value was very low.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don’t even know what this means.

Go back and look at every deal made under JJ's time as GM. Whether it's drafting Cam Johnson (who had ties to Jeff Bower, the assistant GM, for years), trading Ariza for Oubre (which was supposed to be for Dillon Brooks but was a disaster), trading for CP3 (who went to Sam Presti and said he wanted to be in Phx w/Booker), etc and there's always someone else involved. It's never just JJ. When the Heat make a move, it's Pat Riley. When the Suns make a move though it's JJ until it doesn't work then he throws someone under the bus. He did it last offseason with Vogel and went out of his way to say "No team has ever used Durant to his fullest potential but we will this next season". He's a politician in that when he works, Paul trade for example, he steps up front and center and tries to take full credit but when it doesn't he's the first to point elsewhere.

I won't give him a pass for the mess we're in. Ishbia allowed it and probably made a few of the suggestions but they did it together. Part of being a GM is keeping your meddling owner at bay. He's failed with Sarver and Ishbia.

 

[GatorAZ]

Going from 64 wins to 45 wins looks pretty good right now. All the while, Jame Jones sat on assets to make the Durant trade happen.

I don't think the Suns front office fully appreciated the value of Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, the four unprotected first round draft picks and swaps plus the value of Jae Crowder.

Or worse yet, maybe they did and did it anyway.

I liked the team that We had before Ishbia got here but I agreed that the KD was a good idea because of the prior season flame out. I’m not sure Ishbia is going to admit failure of this experiment. He’s a great guy and treats people better than Sarver but that doesn’t mean he’s not delusional.
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[Mainstreet]

Go back and look at every deal made under JJ's time as GM. Whether it's drafting Cam Johnson (who had ties to Jeff Bower, the assistant GM, for years), trading Ariza for Oubre (which was supposed to be for Dillon Brooks but was a disaster), trading for CP3 (who went to Sam Presti and said he wanted to be in Phx w/Booker), etc and there's always someone else involved. It's never just JJ. When the Heat make a move, it's Pat Riley. When the Suns make a move though it's JJ until it doesn't work then he throws someone under the bus. He did it last offseason with Vogel and went out of his way to say "No team has ever used Durant to his fullest potential but we will this next season". He's a politician in that when he works, Paul trade for example, he steps up front and center and tries to take full credit but when it doesn't he's the first to point elsewhere.

I won't give him a pass for the mess we're in. Ishbia allowed it and probably made a few of the suggestions but they did it together. Part of being a GM is keeping your meddling owner at bay. He's failed with Sarver and Ishbia.

I may give James Jones credit for hiring Monty, signing Cam Payne and Jae Crowder, also putting the Finals team together, but not a lot more.

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess there is something to be said for Sarver after all. You are right about Ayton. His trade value was very low.

Being cheap isn't something to applaud generally but if you're cheap then the chances of ending up in a massive hole from overspending is unlikely to happen.

 

[Mainstreet]

I liked the team that We had before Ishbia got here but I agreed that the KD was a good idea because of the prior season flame out. I’m not sure Ishbia is going to admit failure of this experiment. He’s a great guy and treats people better than Sarver but that doesn’t mean he’s not delusional.
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I so disliked the trade for Durant especially with the inclusion of Mikal Bridges.

Up until about a month or so, those words in the above tweet were in my signature:

“You look back at some of the trades that James and all of us were part of. We do those things 100 out of 100 times. Not 99 out of 100, 100 out of 100 and we’d still do them again and I think the other 29 GMs would all do the same exact thing.” Mat Ishbia May 1, 2024

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Also, I had another James Jones quote as well in my signature:

"Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star." James Jones

 

[Phrazbit]

JJ took over as GM with a directive to make the team competitive, immediately. He did, without hardly losing any assets. The roster was very well balanced on both ends and had a ton of wiggle room to improve.

Ishbia blew all that up the instant he bought the team. Built the team like he was playing 2k, a focus on names, a total lack of care for fit or long term viability. Spent every bit of trade capitol on stuff we didn't need.

JJ has made some mistakes, big ones, we should have drafted Haliburton... I also think that if he had, Haliburton would have been tossed into the KD trade the instant Ishbia bought the team.

Whoever Ishbia hires, he needs to let him build the roster and not meddle... but I think meddlesome owners can't really help themselves, they either are or they are not and Ishbia certainly has shown he thinks a LOT of his basketball acumen.