Berry Good Case on the QB Situation

[kerouac9]

Well now that Leinart is gone Young won't ever be able to do it to us again.

If #7 were an NFL starter the defense never would have given up that TD.

 

[Pariah]

I simply don't follow Berry's logic on the castoff thing. VY is truly a castoff and Kolb is a commodity that they are trying to get the most out of. Spin it any other way and it's just that, spin.

That's exactly what I was going to say. What makes Kolb a castoff and VY different? If anything VY is MORE of a castoff than Kolb.

 

[john h]

Bertrand Berry has been adding his 2 cents recently about the Cardinals' QB search.

Berry makes a very good argument that Vince Young would be the best choice---

Here is a summary of Berry's reasons:

1. "Young will come in hungry and will have a lot to prove."

2. "He is a double threat"...which, in light of the Cardinals' offensive line situation, makes Young all the more attractive.

3. "He went 12-7 as the starter in Tennessee the last two seasons---while the Titans went 2-11 in the same offense with their other QBs."

4. "In the same offense Young's passer rating was a good 88.1...while the other Titans' QB's rating was 73.2," which Berry calls "a significant difference."

Berry's thoughts about trading for Kevin Kolb:

1. "I don't want anyone else's castaways."

2. "The Eagles can't like Kolb too much if they want to trade him."

When Berry was apprised of the flaw in his "castaways" argument, in that Young can also be considered a castaway---Berry explained that there's a big difference in the scenarios in that with Kolb the Cardinals have to give up high draft picks (and a top $ contract for a player who hasn't proven himself yet)---assuming Young is released, as expected, the Cardinals wouldn't have to give up anything (and Young's contract would only be for top $ if he achieves certain incentives---no one is going to invest a ton of guaranteed $ in Young at this point).

Berry also points out that Young is a more proven commodity than Kolb.

In my opinion, the B-Train makes a Berry Good Case for Young. It's great that Berry's allegiance is still with the Cardinals---and that Berry clearly wants to see the Cardinals return to championship form.

I realize that some or even many of you question whether Vince Young would win over Whiz's trust and confidence. That's a very important question.

Would it be a slam dunk for Kolb to win over Whiz's trust and confidence?

There is no question that Vince Young has proven himself to be immature. But, if Bertrand Berry is correct in the notion that Young would be determined to prove himself---Berry might have correctly identified the best scenario for the Cardinals---

Imagine what Young's athleticism would mean to the Cardinals' offense---and imagine too what kind of pressure Young would put on opposing defenses and what they would have to do to prepare for the Cardinals.

Berry makes a good case. I would prefer this to Kolb. I like the idea of a mobile QB.

 

[john h]

All valid points...but I will assure you Wiz would want no part in a QB that quit on his team like VY did in Tennessee!!! Case closed, move on & lets get a QB to lead this team.

One might say Brett Favre left his teams under some strange circumstances.

 

[Duckjake]

If #7 were an NFL starter the defense never would have given up that TD.

Kurt Warner was an NFL starter. And the Defense couldn't stop the Steelers.

Leinart was 7-9 for 86 yards in that 4th quarter vs Tennessee in case anyone was asking.

And of course there was the obligatory phantom holding call against Reggie Wells on the last Cardinal drive to make it harder to run out the clock.



Anyway as you probably know the reference was simply to VY beating ML with a last minute drive in the BCS game and again with Tenn. The players were even talking about it on the sidelines.

 

[john h]

I'm gonna need some links before I believe any of this.. I haven't heard from Berry in a few years and all of a sudden he says this? who did he say this to? When did he say this? Links please...

I object your honor. The witness is badgering our witness. The door was opened by our expert witness Mr. Mitch and Mr. Berry is himself an expert. How do we know he has not heard from Mr. Berry in a few years?

 

[kerouac9]

Kurt Warner was an NFL starter. And the Defense couldn't stop the Steelers.

Leinart was 7-9 for 86 yards in that 4th quarter vs Tennessee in case anyone was asking.

And of course there was the obligatory phantom holding call against Reggie Wells on the last Cardinal drive to make it harder to run out the clock.



Anyway as you probably know the reference was simply to VY beating ML with a last minute drive in the BCS game and again with Tenn. The players were even talking about it on the sidelines.

I was looking through the 2010 Football Outsiders Annual and came across an interesting statistic yesterday.

#7 was top 5 in the NFL in DVOA when hurried. The minimum for the metric was 20 hurries, and that's how many he had they charted. #7 only had 77 attempts, which means that he was hurried on more than a quarter of his total attempts. A high ranking like that also suggests that #7 was making good decisions under pressure and not putting the ball up for grabs when the play started breaking down.

Not coincidentally, Derek Anderson was in the Bottom 10 in DVOA when hurried. He was obviously an excellent fit in our offense and Coach Whisenhunt made an excellent decision and put him in a position to succeed.

 

[Duckjake]

I object your honor. The witness is badgering our witness. The door was opened by our expert witness Mr. Mitch and Mr. Berry is himself an expert. How do we know he has not heard from Mr. Berry in a few years?

Very odd counselor since there has been only one season of football since Mr.Berry was hosting BIG RED RAGE.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

On November 29, 2009, Young led the Titans on a two minute thirty-seven second, ninety-nine yard drive at the end of their game against the Arizona Cardinals, capping it with a game-winning touchdown pass to Kenny Britt as time expired.

I was there don't remind me. The whole time walking out I was complaining how could they let Vince freakin' Young drive 99 yards on them.

 

[Duckjake]

I was there don't remind me. The whole time walking out I was complaining how could they let Vince freakin' Young drive 99 yards on them.

I've never understood that either but for some reason in 2008-2009 the Cards just couldn't hold leads. Even in the games they won the other teams were hammering at their leads in the 2nd half. And of course it all came to a head in the Green Bay playoff game.

Now we need our new DC and our new QB to get our guys into position not only to have the lead or simply hang on to it but to step on the opponents dadgum throats when we get ahead.

I want to see more games like the 2009 Vikings contest where our boys just beat the dog out of the 10-1 Viks for 4 quarters.

Who is the best QB-not retired- to do that for us???????

 

[Reddog]

The Wonderlic may not dictate how a QB responds in a game situation but it probably impacts how he prepares and if he is stupid enough to walk out in the middle of his coaches locker room meeting. With the future of the franchise at stake it is true we may not know enough about Kolb. But we do know a bit about Young.

Young = 6
Kolb = 28

 

[chickenhead]

I don't agree that Kolb is a castoff: he'd be the starter in Philly if he hadn't been injured with Vick going all-pro in his absence. Philly is moving him because they can't afford both.

But BB does make some good points about Young. However, an immature QB + our head coach doesn't strike me as a great combination. I'm not saying this as a knock on Whiz, but if you can't get along with Fisher I don't see how you get along with KW.

 

[DoTheDew]

Not coincidentally, Derek Anderson was in the Bottom 10 in DVOA when hurried. He was obviously an excellent fit in our offense and Coach Whisenhunt made an excellent decision and put him in a position to succeed.

This just confirms what I've been saying all along. DA was a quality player in Cleveland the one year they were a smashmouth team. He is not meant for an offense that puts him under pressure. He did good that year precisely because there were extra blockers and the running game was good enough that teams couldn't go after him consistently.

I don't like scud but I think he can perform under those circumstances. Whiz, for some reason, thought he could perform under Warner-like circumstances. It's as though Whiz watched no game tape.

I don't get what's so hard about it. If Whiz is unwilling to change his offense, then he had better only bring in QBs that have proven they thrive in this space the field, leave no extra blockers type of system.

 

[Cardiac]

That's exactly what I was going to say. What makes Kolb a castoff and VY different? If anything VY is MORE of a castoff than Kolb.

Great minds...

I don't agree that Kolb is a castoff: he'd be the starter in Philly if he hadn't been injured with Vick going all-pro in his absence. Philly is moving him because they can't afford both.

But BB does make some good points about Young. However, an immature QB + our head coach doesn't strike me as a great combination. I'm not saying this as a knock on Whiz, but if you can't get along with Fisher I don't see how you get along with KW.

I really don't know how many HC's could get along with tick tick tick ....BOOM.

Obviously Heimendingleberry (sp new HC Titans) doesn't want to try and get along with him either. We watched a bunch of teams "reach" for QB's in this past draft as well instead of going for VY when he becomes available.

It will be interesting to see what kind of offers VY gets when the Titans cut him or if a team tries to trade for him.

 

[Duckjake]

Great minds...



I really don't know how many HC's could get along with tick tick tick ....BOOM.

Obviously Heimendingleberry (sp new HC Titans) doesn't want to try and get along with him either. We watched a bunch of teams "reach" for QB's in this past draft as well instead of going for VY when he becomes available.

It will be interesting to see what kind of offers VY gets when the Titans cut him or if a team tries to trade for him.

Didn't the Panthers use the #1 pick on Cam Newton?

I think its more the young and new rather than the old and old that keep guys like Leinart and Young from attracting a lot of interest. Look at Warner. I don't remember there being a ton of interest in him back in '05 and we were able to get him for a 1 year "lets see what you can do contract". I didn't even know DeWreck Anderson was available when the Cards picked him up.

But anyway here's another example of former players, even possible future Hall of Famers, not having any better insight about QB talent:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/08/kurt.warner/index.html

 

[Mitch]

Question for the board:

How would you feel if Vince Young signed with the Seahawks or 49ers?

Be honest, now!

It would be a great concern to me...and would likely be even more of a concern to Ray Horton.

I think---despite his problems---VY will get it right somewhere and will win a Super Bowl...and possibly more than one.

 

[Cardiac]

Question for the board:

How would you feel if Vince Young signed with the Seahawks or 49ers?

Be honest, now!

It would be a great concern to me...and would likely be even more of a concern to Ray Horton.

I think---despite his problems---VY will get it right somewhere and will win a Super Bowl...and possibly more than one.

Honestly; my only trepidation would be my ingrained fear that all turns wrong when it involves the Cards. I would however be furious and dismayed if the Cards sign VY. He will win some games and he is very talented. So is TO and Oucho and Pacman and ..... Point is these type of players typically hurt your team in the long run.

 

[Buckybird]

Question for the board:

How would you feel if Vince Young signed with the Seahawks or 49ers?

Be honest, now!

It would be a great concern to me...and would likely be even more of a concern to Ray Horton.

I think---despite his problems---VY will get it right somewhere and will win a Super Bowl...and possibly more than one.

IMO VY will never QB a team to a Super Bowl win, so I don't care if he signs with any of the 31 NFL teams & the reason I wouldn't want him in Cards red!!!