All is Not Lost

Harry

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It’s easy to get discouraged and think this is a lost year. However, that would not be a valid conclusion. Of course, most everyone is pleased with the coach’s, though I warn you there will be some rough times ahead. There will be more losses than wins. Nonetheless some other valuable things have been accomplished. Importantly some useful, if not Pro Bowl level, players have been acquired.

On offense Michael Wilson has exceeded my expectations and marked himself as more than just a possession receiver. The coaching staff needs to keep him more involved. Tune showed real promise that he might at least be a competent backup QB. It’s early but I liked the way Demercado ran with determination against the Bengals. It sounds like the Cards intend to turn to Ingram. I’d rather they gave the carries to Demercado. He may offer a higher ceiling. Johnson looks like a solid tackle. I’ve even come around to thinking Froholdt will at least be a useful backup. His ability to pull may eventually make him more valuable at guard.

On defense, though not a find, someone better get Gardeck signed to an extension. Another interesting player is Woods. He struggles in some cover situations, but does a great job of filling gaps. He’s at least a good backup. Wallace is another solid acquisition. The Cards really needed a third safety and Wallace seems to have found a home. I also think Clark is an excellent draftee. Not only does he possess the needed speed and agility, but he has the determination and self confidence. I believe he has a solid future in a position that’s hard to fill. I know Stills had a good game but I need to see more.

Overall this is a nice set of players to build around. They already had some solid performers on the team. This group gives them an affordable core to hopefully grow into a winner. They provide a reason to believe Ossenfort can get the job done.
 

kerouac9

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someone better get Gardeck signed to an extension
The entire OLB room is signed through 2024. Deepest group on the team, by far. Gardeck is 29 already; I don't feel particularly motivated to keep him around into his mid-30s.

After what we went through with Murphy and are going through with Wilson, I'm being patient with Kei'Trel Clark. There's probably a reason he was sent to the bench in favor of Antonio Hamilton.

The interior defensive line is just a rolling catastrophe. I said it on another thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if we use two of those top 75 picks on interior DL next draft. It's fairly easy if not cost-effective to find average players at the position in free agency, but you'd prefer to have a few home-grown dudes. We don't have anyone under contract for 2024 right now.
 

RON_IN_OC

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The entire OLB room is signed through 2024. Deepest group on the team, by far. Gardeck is 29 already; I don't feel particularly motivated to keep him around into his mid-30s.

After what we went through with Murphy and are going through with Wilson, I'm being patient with Kei'Trel Clark. There's probably a reason he was sent to the bench in favor of Antonio Hamilton.

The interior defensive line is just a rolling catastrophe. I said it on another thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if we use two of those top 75 picks on interior DL next draft. It's fairly easy if not cost-effective to find average players at the position in free agency, but you'd prefer to have a few home-grown dudes. We don't have anyone under contract for 2024 right now.
I'd offer guard deck a 2-year deal.. or a Team friendly 3 year deal.
 

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@Harry I think the actual tape proves you wrong on Froholdt. Dude is a legit starter. Put an actual NFL starter at LG and this line is pretty good.

The best starting C we had in the past 15 years was Sendlein and I think Froholdt is a similar level. Might even be better. I don't get the beef. Although I admit it's early days.

And yeah I'm including Rodney Hudson in that who turned out to be nothing but a name. Wasn't the same level he was earlier in his career and spent most of his time injured.
 

Krangodnzr

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The best starting C we had in the past 15 years was Sendlein and I think Froholdt is a similar level. Might even be better. I don't get the beef. Although I admit it's early days.

And yeah I'm including Rodney Hudson in that who turned out to be nothing but a name. Wasn't the same level he was earlier in his career and spent most of his time injured.
He's legitimately been a revelation and better than the back up player that @Harry claims he is.
 

Krangodnzr

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It's very hard to evaluate OL play from the outside.
Absolutely. Just like it's hard to evaluate CB play because you don't always know the responsibility on the play.

The eyeball test tells me that Froholdt looks like a tough football player who has the ability to understand how the defensive front is trying to attack. You see him shift and help double team and he has a number of seal off blocks that have sprung big plays.
 

Proximo

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The best starting C we had in the past 15 years was Sendlein and I think Froholdt is a similar level. Might even be better. I don't get the beef. Although I admit it's early days.

And yeah I'm including Rodney Hudson in that who turned out to be nothing but a name. Wasn't the same level he was earlier in his career and spent most of his time injured.
I think he is better than Sendlein, and yes he is our best center that I can ever remember on the AZ cardinals - but to be honest that is not saying that much.
 

BirdGangThing

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I think he is better than Sendlein, and yes he is our best center that I can ever remember on the AZ cardinals - but to be honest that is not saying that much.
5 games in - including 4 losses - and you're anointing Froholdt as the greatest center to ever play in Arizona...

We're winning 20% of our games rn - a pathetic percentage that's about to get worse - and you're crowning an experimental project who some say never should've been allowed past the wall - much less in the castle

A healthy Sendlein was better

A beaten up aged out Hudson was better (when he actually played)

You know what happened when those 2 were on the team??? This thing called playoff football
 

kerouac9

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5 games in - including 4 losses - and you're anointing Froholdt as the greatest center to ever play in Arizona...

We're winning 20% of our games rn - a pathetic percentage that's about to get worse - and you're crowning an experimental project who some say never should've been allowed past the wall - much less in the castle

A healthy Sendlein was better

A beaten up aged out Hudson was better (when he actually played)

You know what happened when those 2 were on the team??? This thing called playoff football
Let's pump the brakes here.

1) Football is a team sport. Individual performances can be good and the team can be bad -- even very bad. Happens all the time. CF most of Larry Fitzgerald's career.

2) One thing I'm glad not to see is weird shotgun snaps to nowhere. To me, that's a big improvement over Billy Price and late-vintage Rodney Hudson. I'm honestly not qualified to say he's better or worse than Sendlein or Shipley. I didn't expect Froholdt to be as good as those guys, and so far he's been at least as good.

Froholdt may not be part of the long-term solution, but he's definitely not part of the short-term problem. That's a good start.
 

BirdGangThing

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Let's pump the brakes here.

1) Football is a team sport. Individual performances can be good and the team can be bad -- even very bad. Happens all the time. CF most of Larry Fitzgerald's career.

2) One thing I'm glad not to see is weird shotgun snaps to nowhere. To me, that's a big improvement over Billy Price and late-vintage Rodney Hudson. I'm honestly not qualified to say he's better or worse than Sendlein or Shipley. I didn't expect Froholdt to be as good as those guys, and so far he's been at least as good.

Froholdt may not be part of the long-term solution, but he's definitely not part of the short-term problem. That's a good start.
Good teams tend to have good Centers tho - of course it's a team sport but everything begins with the man in the middle - and you're right - I would also definitely 100% but Shipley above Frodolt too lol
 

Proximo

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5 games in - including 4 losses - and you're anointing Froholdt as the greatest center to ever play in Arizona...

We're winning 20% of our games rn - a pathetic percentage that's about to get worse - and you're crowning an experimental project who some say never should've been allowed past the wall - much less in the castle

A healthy Sendlein was better

A beaten up aged out Hudson was better (when he actually played)

You know what happened when those 2 were on the team??? This thing called playoff football
Um, there are like 40 guys that play every game. Acting like the center is the sole reason we win or lose games is pretty dumb. Maybe you can say that about a QB, but that is the only position that has that kind of impact.
 

BirdGangThing

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Um, there are like 40 guys that play every game. Acting like the center is the sole reason we win or lose games is pretty dumb. Maybe you can say that about a QB, but that is the only position that has that kind of impact.
Pretty dumb? First of all I never said that - but anyways - what do you call declaring Froholdt some kind of FroGOAT 5 games into a dismal season? Because 3 penalties in 5 games doesn't speak greatness to me. People keep talking about Froholdt helping others - then why are Wilkinson and Colon still performing so badly? I think it's because the gap in between our Center and LG is our weak spot. I also don't see your boy identifying where the pressure is coming from - resulting in multiple defenders getting to the QB before our own RB does

I'm gonna stop now - but honestly it's hard when some are already hanging this guy's jersey in the ring of honor
 
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gimpy

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I think he is better than Sendlein, and yes he is our best center that I can ever remember on the AZ cardinals - but to be honest that is not saying that much.
That's not saying much because he is our best center, or that you can remember?:wave:
 
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dreamcastrocks

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That's not saying much because he is our best center, or that you can remember?:wave:
Hudson was our best center. Even if he only performed that way for about a year and a half, he was head and shoulders above Sendlein or any other center we have trotted out there.

This shouldn't be a debate.
 

kerouac9

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Hudson was our best center. Even if he only performed that way for about a year and a half, he was head and shoulders above Sendlein or any other center we have trotted out there.

This shouldn't be a debate.
I’ll debate it. He started exactly 16 games in AZ. He consistently snapped the ball over Kyler’s head.

Pete Kendall was better. Change my mind.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I’ll debate it. He started exactly 16 games in AZ. He consistently snapped the ball over Kyler’s head.

Pete Kendall was better. Change my mind.
During his starts, he was probably a top 5 center at the time. You could argue top 10. Although his production dropped off quite a bit the 2nd half of that year.

Sendlein or any other center wasn't anywhere close that to type of production. Pete Kendall? There's no point in even trying to convince you.
 

Crimson Warrior

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Absolutely. Just like it's hard to evaluate CB play because you don't always know the responsibility on the play.

The eyeball test tells me that Froholdt looks like a tough football player who has the ability to understand how the defensive front is trying to attack. You see him shift and help double team and he has a number of seal off blocks that have sprung big plays.

And you do not see Frodholdt pushed four yards into the backfield in pass protection like we saw with several of the guys we've had a C over the last several years (save Hudson, who when he played was above average).

OL play is hard to judge, but all the available empirical evidence suggests Frodholt playing at a C+ or B level through five games.
 
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Krangodnzr

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And you do not see Frodholdt pushed four yards into the backfield in pass protection like we saw with several of the guys we've had a C over the last several years (save Hudson, who when he played was above average).

OL play is hard to judge, but all the available empirical evidence suggest Frodholt playing at a C+ or B level through five games.
I'd argue from what I've seen, hes a real solid player. Not a scrub at all. Definitely a starter, and definitely a guy who helps the team win.
 

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