2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Cheesebeef]

We have Booker, Beal, KD, Okogie, Goodwin, Gordon, Lee, Etc.....

Okogie and Goodwin can dribble. They aren’t good ball handlers who can attack the basket.

And Lee? Come on, Yuma.

I’ve loved a lot of the off-season, but that doesn’t mean we need to support every move.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The bottom line is that keeping Payne around wasn't worth 26 million dollars for this upcoming season. I don't blame Ishbia one bit if it was only for the cost savings. He's spent lavishly elsewhere. I have no complaints.

I don't think it was just a save money move but if it were, I'd have a problem with it. We have a season or two with a legitimate chance to win it all if we can stay healthy and all the pieces fit the way we hope they do. I wouldn't support any decision made during this period if it were solely about saving the owner some money.

Reducing our payroll so we can perhaps do something later is fine. But just trying to save some money for money's sake, we already lived through a lifetime of Sarver doing just that so I'd hope that's not the case.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't get why everyone is so bent out of shape about Payne. Statistically, he simply wasn't reliable. Great teammate and I wouldn't balk at him being on the team, but if his only real trait is that he's an extra ball handler which we were only going to use in a pinch, then what's the point in keeping someone that expensive? We couldn't trade him for another player because we didn't have the room -- Bol Bol was already cut so we couldn't have traded for him. And even if we did, the assumption was that Orlando would have wanted him. Certainly no guarantee of that.

So what's the best option? Cut him, stash him on the bench while paying what amounted to 22m this year or trade him away for non-roster assets. They chose one out of 3 options and got some relief to boot. Really isn't worth dragging this out. And we have no room to complain about the ball handling since none of us have any idea what the team is going to look like with Beal/Goodwin/Booker taking up a vast majority of those duties.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think it was just a save money move but if it were, I'd have a problem with it. We have a season or two with a legitimate chance to win it all if we can stay healthy and all the pieces fit the way we hope they do. I wouldn't support any decision made during this period if it were solely about saving the owner some money.

Reducing our payroll so we can perhaps do something later is fine. But just trying to save some money for money's sake, we already lived through a lifetime of Sarver doing just that so I'd hope that's not the case.

And what in Ishbia's short tenure would make you even entertain the idea that he's doing it the "Sarver way"?

That said, 22 million dollars is a lot of money to pay for one year of Cam Payne. If it's cost cutting? Fine. He isn't as big a loss as some people here like to make him out to be. I liked him, but he was at best a role player who would show flashes once every 4 games, and that's if he was even playing to begin with.

 

[nashman]

Some of us were tired of Payne as much as Shamet, I won’t miss seeing him chucking up terrible shots even when he was cold, or his terrible TOs at the worst times! Unreliable player and unneeded on this team imo…

 

[Mainstreet]

Nigeria is using Chimezie Metu as a 4.

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[Hoop Head]

Nigeria is using Chimezie Metu as a 4.

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Not sure why Kellan seems surprised Metu was playing at PF as that's what he is. It's nice to his movement but he's always been more of a PF than C. He's a small ball C at most. I hope he's able to contribute.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not sure why Kellan seems surprised Metu was playing at PF as that's what he is. It's nice to his movement but he's always been more of a PF than C. He's a small ball C at most. I hope he's able to contribute.

If Metu can play either role I'm happy. He moves well for a big man.

 

[Phrazbit]

We have Booker, Beal, KD, Okogie, Goodwin, Gordon, Lee, Etc.....

Okogie and Lee are not ball handlers, I suspect Goodwin isn't much of one either at this stage of his career.

Payne would probably have been the 2nd best facilitator on the team after Booker. His assist/turnover rates were very good, even when his shot sucked.

The Cam Payne hagiography is crazy around here. He's a little guy that tries hard, but was becoming unreliable two years ago, and then between injuries/ineffectiveness, he was completely useless last year.

The league figured him out - Cam is just another mercurial undersized guard who can get hot in a minute but also can shoot/turnover you out of a game quickly.

He was a solid backup guard, better than most around the league, even last season.

Injuries were more of a problem than anything else, that is a legit gripe. His shot was inconsistent... but that is why he was a backup, if he played as well as he did as a passer and defender (where he was also solid) and was a consistently good shooter he'd be on a much bigger contract than 6 mil a year.

We have solid depth, but dumping him was about money. I don't blame the team, 26 million in luxury tax for a guy who might not be in the rotation doesn't make sense. But this narrative that he was garbage for us the last 2 years is absolute nonsense.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't get why everyone is so bent out of shape about Payne. Statistically, he simply wasn't reliable. Great teammate and I wouldn't balk at him being on the team, but if his only real trait is that he's an extra ball handler which we were only going to use in a pinch, then what's the point in keeping someone that expensive? We couldn't trade him for another player because we didn't have the room -- Bol Bol was already cut so we couldn't have traded for him. And even if we did, the assumption was that Orlando would have wanted him. Certainly no guarantee of that.

So what's the best option? Cut him, stash him on the bench while paying what amounted to 22m this year or trade him away for non-roster assets. They chose one out of 3 options and got some relief to boot. Really isn't worth dragging this out. And we have no room to complain about the ball handling since none of us have any idea what the team is going to look like with Beal/Goodwin/Booker taking up a vast majority of those duties.

I agree with this take.

He was redundant on the current roster and the luxury tax made him very expensive.

I just think it's odd that people feel the need to poo on the guy when he was a very solid role player for us for the majority of the last 3 years.

 

[Superbone]

I just think it's odd that people feel the need to poo on the guy when he was a very solid role player for us for the majority of the last 3 years.

He was excellent in the bubble and in our championship run.

Games played:
20-21: 60
21-22: 58
22-23: 48

I'm no expert but there seems to be a pattern there. That's the biggest issue I had with Payne and his play became more and more inconsistent. But I loved him while he was here and I wish him nothing but the best. Great guy. Fan favorite.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And what in Ishbia's short tenure would make you even entertain the idea that he's doing it the "Sarver way"?

That said, 22 million dollars is a lot of money to pay for one year of Cam Payne. If it's cost cutting? Fine. He isn't as big a loss as some people here like to make him out to be. I liked him, but he was at best a role player who would show flashes once every 4 games, and that's if he was even playing to begin with.

I didn't say that, quite the opposite.

 

[Chaplin]

I didn't say that, quite the opposite.

You brought up the possibility and said you hoped it wasn’t the case. Doesn’t mean you think it just that you brought up the (far-fetched) possibility.

 

[Yuma]

Title teams can never have enough ball handlers.

Evidently they can. Every season is different. We have more ballhandlers than we did last season. You can never have enough shooters. It could be argued we haven't had enough rebounders in the recent past, too. It's just like the Cardinals thread. They want every position to be four deep with all pros, too! You can't have the best three guys in the league at every position, but I realize that most fans think we never have enough depth. Not enough youth. Not enough draft picks. Etc. I hear people say a lot, you can't have everything!

 

[AzStevenCal]

You brought up the possibility and said you hoped it wasn’t the case. Doesn’t mean you think it just that you brought up the (far-fetched) possibility.

No, I said I don't believe it's the case but I'd be against it if it were. I'm contesting the idea that he was jettisoned solely for money and that it is okay for our owner to do so. I wanted to make the point that this year and next year is not the time to make moves like Sarver made, that were solely to save him money but not that I thought there was a chance that's what Ishbia was doing. Now is the time to go for broke, leave the penny saving moves for later and I believe our new owner gets that.

 

[Yuma]

One thing is we don't know their overall plans. We can be mad that Payne isn't here now, but we wouldn't have been able to add an extra person to the regular roster with the spot Payne was taking up. Yes a team can have people over the limit until the season starts, but we don't know if Payne's agent didn't ask for a move earlier. There's teams over the limit of guys on their squad now, that will dump guys when the season starts. I imagine it would be worse for Payne to be in that position.

 

[Mainstreet]

One thing is we don't know their overall plans. We can be mad that Payne isn't here now, but we wouldn't have been able to add an extra person to the regular roster with the spot Payne was taking up. Yes a team can have people over the limit until the season starts, but we don't know if Payne's agent didn't ask for a move earlier. There's teams over the limit of guys on their squad now, that will dump guys when the season starts. I imagine it would be worse for Payne to be in that position.

I don't think anyone is mad. It's something to talk about. Everyone is just expressing their opinion. I can't believe this discussion is still going.

The Suns could have waived a player like Wainright if they kept Cam Payne and still had a standard 15-man roster.

One of the reasons I mention Wainright is because his contract is not yet guaranteed.

Personally, I would have rather kept Cam Payne. He has said he wanted to remain on the team to win a chip.

I can also understand the Suns wanting to save $25+ million dollars.

 

[TJ]

Not sure why Kellan seems surprised Metu was playing at PF as that's what he is. It's nice to his movement but he's always been more of a PF than C. He's a small ball C at most. I hope he's able to contribute.

Kellan knows as much about basketball as I know about astrophysics

 

[Covert Rain]

I was giving you an example, and I can give you more over the three plus seasons Cam Payne has played with the Suns.

You will almost always hear me clamor for more depth at point guard (distributors) and power forward because these two positions are critical to a team. They can play all five positions if necessary.

IMO, these positions should always be at least three deep if not more if a team is vying for a championship.

I bet I could give just as many the other way. Again, I wouldn’t have objected over the last 2 seasons for an upgrade over Payne. He wasn’t the worst ever or anything close to that but he isn’t the difference between winning a title and failing to win a title.

 

[CardNots]

I was giving you an example, and I can give you more over the three plus seasons Cam Payne has played with the Suns.

You will almost always hear me clamor for more depth at point guard (distributors) and power forward because these two positions are critical to a team. They can play all five positions if necessary.

IMO, these positions should always be at least three deep if not more if a team is vying for a championship.

Mainstreet, I think you are one of the most enlightening posters on this board. I have the utmost respect for you.

I cannot argue your points established for keeping Payne on the suns team.

I will add there are a few posters including myself you can never convince keeping Payne was the right thing to do. Personally I soured on Cam long ago. It is my belief as a backup your availability during the season needs to be high. Payne did not meet that criteria at least for me.

I will not debate whether the decision to let him go was right but I am satisfied he is no longer on the team.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mainstreet, I think you are one of the most enlightening posters on this board. I have the utmost respect for you.

I cannot argue your points established for keeping Payne on the suns team.

I will add there are a few posters including myself you can never convince keeping Payne was the right thing to do. Personally I soured on Cam long ago. It is my belief as a backup your availability during the season needs to be high. Payne did not meet that criteria at least for me.

I will not debate whether the decision to let him go was right but I am satisfied he is no longer on the team.

I appreciate your posts as well. If we all agreed about everything, the forum would become pretty boring.

What I like about this discussion, it was well-informed and polite.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

. But this narrative that he was garbage for us the last 2 years is absolute nonsense.

Ok. Completely unreliable. You prefer that? Either way, someone you can't count on doesn't hold much value!

 

[Covert Rain]

I appreciate your posts as well. If we all agreed about everything, the forum would become pretty boring.

What I like about this discussion, it was well-informed and polite.

I think we all would prefer the season starts so we can talk about that instead. HA!

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh, I'm going to like this from Eric Gordon. This will really spread the court.

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[CardNots]

Oh, I'm going to like this from Eric Gordon. This will really spread the court.

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He has two things we missed in the playoffs. Supremely confident in his shot and a willingness to pull the trigger anywhere. Will be our second best transaction of the offseason.