2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

95pro

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Why would bridges defense drop because of switching? Our team defense should drop, but bridges still has to guard whomever he’s guarding. He was not as impactful this year defensively. No question about that.

Well the biggest reason is staying connected to one player, physically, you're closer and obviously screens cause separation. So there's that. Second if you're guarding one player, you can key on their movements and tendencies. Switches should actually help defenses instead of "team defense should drop", at least that's the theory behind switching, to not fight over or through screens it's quicker to just switch, but good teams like the Mavs just simply get the matchup they want because we just switch too easily and predictably.
 

Yuma

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I’m sorry you want to wait until he’s 28 and in his 7th season before we can determine what bridges is? No. Just no.
You don't have to, but I am guessing I have seen more NBA ball in my lifetime than you. While it is rare, there are guys that mature their games later in their careers. I see Bridges starting to do that. You don't. I want to see how he responds to leading a team and where that takes him. He certainly was not an alpha dog with PHX. Now he has to be that guy on the Nets. Totally different games. Totally different demands.
 

AzStevenCal

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Why would bridges defense drop because of switching? Our team defense should drop, but bridges still has to guard whomever he’s guarding. He was not as impactful this year defensively. No question about that.
No, he wasn't. And I've said that many times this year. Most of that dropoff (at least in defensive stats) occurred beginning the first game after he reportedly hyper-extended his knee and it continued for about 6 weeks. Around the same time we lost key players so I'm sure some will say it was the extra responsibility but regardless the result was the same. The rest of the season though he was once again a consistent defender.

The instant switching by design didn't hurt his defense. It hurt the perception of his defense. We frequently had posters mocking his defense because they'd see Luka or whoever go off for 50 points and use that as evidence that Mikal was overrated. When you're switching everything you can't just look at points scored and blame your best defender for it and that was often the case in game threads or when someone said something positive about Mikal.
 

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What about something with Boston, Smart and Williams or just Brown. I think they need to move one of the two guards to get better.
 

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What about something with Boston, Smart and Williams or just Brown. I think they need to move one of the two guards to get better.

I’m not mad at that
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Bleep that bleep. I get that some folks are through with Ayton, but his market value is way higher than some of these garbage deals being suggested. They should be able to get at least a mid level starter for him, plus a decent pick and/or complementary player.

If not, then I would bring him back for another season and see if a coaching change makes any difference. Letting some other contender steal him, warts and all, for pennies would be stupid.
The more I think about it the more no agree. I think at worst you get the aytin we got this year. Which means his value is likely static. I don’t see him regressing even further.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Well the biggest reason is staying connected to one player, physically, you're closer and obviously screens cause separation. So there's that. Second if you're guarding one player, you can key on their movements and tendencies. Switches should actually help defenses instead of "team defense should drop", at least that's the theory behind switching, to not fight over or through screens it's quicker to just switch, but good teams like the Mavs just simply get the matchup they want because we just switch too easily and predictably.
Man if that’s the excuse being used for bridges drop defensively then there’s nothing anyone can ever say to criticize the guy for some of you. That’s ridiculous.
 

95pro

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Man if that’s the excuse being used for bridges drop defensively then there’s nothing anyone can ever say to criticize the guy for some of you. That’s ridiculous.

I dont call it an excuse as 1) i dont miss Bridges at all like many 2) He's been overrated to an extend on his defense imo

But when you just predictably switch almost every time, the entire defensive #'s will drop since teams have game planned around that fact we easily do so.

I think Bridges D caught the leagues attention, league adjusted, then D back down to earth. I think the same thing happens to Austin Reeves next season, of course for his offense.

Why would bridges defense drop because of switching? Our team defense should drop, but bridges still has to guard whomever he’s guarding. He was not as impactful this year defensively. No question about that.

So why should our team defense drop? I explained my thoughts on why switching is done but according to you switching is done league wide so defenses can drop?

So very true Bridges has to still gaurd whomever, but thats an empty statement. So his numbers should remain the same if he keeps getting switched on a center or power forward?
 
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AzStevenCal

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I dont call it an excuse as 1) i dont miss Bridges at all like many 2) He's been overrated to an extend on his defense imo

But when you just predictably switch almost every time, the entire defensive #'s will drop since teams have game planned around that fact we easily do so.

I think Bridges D caught the leagues attention, league adjusted, then D back down to earth. I think the same thing happens to Austin Reeves next season, of course for his offense.
I think people are all over the map on Mikal's defense, highly overrated when they talked about him as a DPOY candidate but frequently underrated by fans expecting great man defense and not seeing it.

Strong players can muscle him aside easily and quick players can get around him with little effort. But otherwise he makes his opponent work and he's a better defender against them once they get past him than just about anyone I can think of. But if he's not getting steals, then he's not getting the knockaways that don't show up in stats and both of those are critical to his effectiveness. IOW I think he's an excellent team defender but he's often outclassed when he's left to defend a strong scorer.
 

95pro

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I think people are all over the map on Mikal's defense, highly overrated when they talked about him as a DPOY candidate but frequently underrated by fans expecting great man defense and not seeing it.

Strong players can muscle him aside easily and quick players can get around him with little effort. But otherwise he makes his opponent work and he's a better defender against them once they get past him than just about anyone I can think of. But if he's not getting steals, then he's not getting the knockaways that don't show up in stats and both of those are critical to his effectiveness. IOW I think he's an excellent team defender but he's often outclassed when he's left to defend a strong scorer.

Completely agree, and with Bridges ,arguably, being our best defender he would get the toughest assignments despite the size and nature of his opponent. He's somewhat repeating the process we had with Marion. I know i was down on Crowder all year, but i'll admit I may have underestimated his effectiveness on our team defense.
 

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And what have they seen in Ayton that makes them think he will change that?

Ayton's stats are solid.

Maybe the Pistons are tired of developing young players and want to go with more proven players who have been in the league for a while.

A lot of teams play different styles than the Suns and feel he could help them. They see how the Suns turned it around quickly with the influx of veterans.
 

Mainstreet

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Completely agree, and with Bridges ,arguably, being our best defender he would get the toughest assignments despite the size and nature of his opponent. He's somewhat repeating the process we had with Marion. I know i was down on Crowder all year, but i'll admit I may have underestimated his effectiveness on our team defense.

Yeah, Marion received a lot of undue criticism when he was forced to guard bigger players like Dirk.
 

AzStevenCal

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How so? Everybody seems to have forgiven her domestic abuse offense, but think life in a Russian prison would be to kind of a punishment for Miles Bridges. She's a hero though.
Well, first off you brought someone into this thread that has no reason to be here. And as far as I can see, not a single person here is calling Griner a hero nor have I seen evidence that "everyone" here has forgiven her. IOW you politicized this unnecessarily and brought your own baggage into the discussion.

And lastly, I don't know enough about the details of Griner's offense but are you really suggesting that an argument that gets both women arrested is on the same level as one where a man beats up a woman in front of her child?
 

Cheesebeef

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Well, first off you brought someone into this thread that has no reason to be here. And as far as I can see, not a single person here is calling Griner a hero nor have I seen evidence that "everyone" here has forgiven her. IOW you politicized this unnecessarily and brought your own baggage into the discussion.

And lastly, I don't know enough about the details of Griner's offense but are you really suggesting that an argument that gets both women arrested is on the same level as one where a man beats up a woman in front of her child?
dont take this bait, Steve.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You don't have to, but I am guessing I have seen more NBA ball in my lifetime than you. While it is rare, there are guys that mature their games later in their careers. I see Bridges starting to do that. You don't. I want to see how he responds to leading a team and where that takes him. He certainly was not an alpha dog with PHX. Now he has to be that guy on the Nets. Totally different games. Totally different demands.
A) I’m willing to bet that you haven’t. Over more years? Possibly as I believe you’re in your 70s whilst I’m only in my 50s. However most of the years you’re talking about didn’t have much televised coverage and I’ve been a hoops junky for almost 5 decades meaning I will watch any basketball game, college, pro, even high school. I’ll put the aggregate ball I’ve watched up against anyone on this board.

B) traditionally the players that get significantly better tend to be those that came out young (bridges did not) or bigs, who tend to develop later (which bridges is not).

I’ll repeat my
No, he wasn't. And I've said that many times this year. Most of that dropoff (at least in defensive stats) occurred beginning the first game after he reportedly hyper-extended his knee and it continued for about 6 weeks. Around the same time we lost key players so I'm sure some will say it was the extra responsibility but regardless the result was the same. The rest of the season though he was once again a consistent defender.

The instant switching by design didn't hurt his defense. It hurt the perception of his defense. We frequently had posters mocking his defense because they'd see Luka or whoever go off for 50 points and use that as evidence that Mikal was overrated. When you're switching everything you can't just look at points scored and blame your best defender for it and that was often the case in game threads or when someone said something positive about Mikal.
no. Just no. This wasn’t the case of people just looking at box scores. The people on this website watch all the games. He was considerably worse this year and I recall one poster posting his advanced defensive stats as proof of what our eyes were seeing.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I dont call it an excuse as 1) i dont miss Bridges at all like many 2) He's been overrated to an extend on his defense imo

But when you just predictably switch almost every time, the entire defensive #'s will drop since teams have game planned around that fact we easily do so.

I think Bridges D caught the leagues attention, league adjusted, then D back down to earth. I think the same thing happens to Austin Reeves next season, of course for his offense.



So why should our team defense drop? I explained my thoughts on why switching is done but according to you switching is done league wide so defenses can drop?

So very true Bridges has to still gaurd whomever, but thats an empty statement. So his numbers should remain the same if he keeps getting switched on a center or power forward?
Team defense drops,imo, for the same reason as has been pointed. When you switch everything it allows the offense to hunt for their desired defender like Paul being regularly targeted. If you consistently end up with your worst defender guarding their best offensive player your defense will suffer unless you have top level back end rotations that are tight.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think people are all over the map on Mikal's defense, highly overrated when they talked about him as a DPOY candidate but frequently underrated by fans expecting great man defense and not seeing it.

Strong players can muscle him aside easily and quick players can get around him with little effort. But otherwise he makes his opponent work and he's a better defender against them once they get past him than just about anyone I can think of. But if he's not getting steals, then he's not getting the knockaways that don't show up in stats and both of those are critical to his effectiveness. IOW I think he's an excellent team defender but he's often outclassed when he's left to defend a strong scorer.
I agree with all of this. But I think he was even weaker as a team defender this season compared to prior seasons.
 

Yuma

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Ouchie, you definitely have some ironclad beliefs which is fine. I think for every rule, like: " traditionally the players that get significantly better tend to be those that came out young (bridges did not) or bigs, who tend to develop later (which bridges is not)." there's always an exception. That is partly what makes life surprising at times.

You don't have to watch Bridges or have any empathy towards our views. I myself am going to be watching to see how Bridges responds to being a team leader from being just one of the guys. That's a way different role in the NBA. Sometimes skills aren't what makes that leader, and Kyrie Irving comes to mind right away as a guy who wanted to be top dog, and then he found out, that wasn't for him.

I think Murray has some go to moves which are unstoppable at times on offense. I also think Bridges is better at energy, defense, and availability. Who would get more interest? Depends. I think Bridges is the better value at this point. If you need a guy that create his own shot with 5 seconds left on the clock, then it's Murray.
 
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Cheesebeef

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Cheese, you definitely have some ironclad beliefs which is fine. I think for every rule, like: " traditionally the players that get significantly better tend to be those that came out young (bridges did not) or bigs, who tend to develop later (which bridges is not)." there's always an exception. That is partly what makes life surprising at times.
Contrary to popular opinion, Ouchie and I are not the same people.
 
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