2014 Draft morphing

[Mainstreet]

Jahii Carson is supposed to workout for the Suns tomorrow.

 

[Mainstreet]

Adding a video link to the prior two posts.

http://www.azcentral.com/videos/sports/nba/suns/2014/05/27/9646737/

 

[Joe Mama]

I don't know. Maybe. Probably not. I should have put my comments in perspective. He's a good player but I keep hearing and reading things about him becoming the next great player and I don't buy it. I was a Leonard fan long before he went to college, I watched him play pick up and high school ball (at MLK in Riverside) a few miles from where I live. He is a physical specimen like the game has rarely seen (his hands remind me of Connie Hawkins) but I don't think even Pop will be able to turn him into a consistent weapon on offense. He's probably worth drafting around the 10th spot even in this deep draft on the basis of his defense alone but I'd just as soon stay with Tucker if we're not going to find a dominant wing scorer.

Steve

If people really think he is going to be the next K. Leonard or better he belongs easily in the top five IMO.

Amazing how good a shooter looks in videos where they edit out all the misses. If you'd never seen Gordon play and saw that video you'd think he was a very good shooter.

If he can shoot half that well he'll have a long NBA career with multiple All Star game appearances.

exactly. Every time I see one of those videos I think the guys the best player in the world until I take two seconds to think about what I'm actually watching.

Joe

 

[AzStevenCal]

If people really think he is going to be the next K. Leonard or better he belongs easily in the top five IMO.

Joe

Yeah, I'm mostly bitter. I really thought he was going to go to the UofA and I talked him up to everyone and then he had the nerve to go to SD State. I pretty much guaranteed he'd be the next great superstar but he's more like Marion than he is Jordan. Not that Shawn is a bad player by any stretch but they both show glimpses of greatness unfulfilled. But like Marion, I can see him going from everyone's favorite to the person everyone complains about once he signs his max contract and is expected to be the new face of the franchise.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I'm mostly bitter. I really thought he was going to go to the UofA and I talked him up to everyone and then he had the nerve to go to SD State. I pretty much guaranteed he'd be the next great superstar but he's more like Marion than he is Jordan. Not that Shawn is a bad player by any stretch but they both show glimpses of greatness unfulfilled. But like Marion, I can see him going from everyone's favorite to the person everyone complains about once he signs his max contract and is expected to be the new face of the franchise.

Steve

i don't really get the Leonard hype. He's a solid player, but I just don't see star potential. Good defender, good shooter, great hustle guy, but he can't really create his own shot and doesn't have super athleticism like Marion did.

that said, if we can get a guy like Leonard with the 14th pick, I'd be all over it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Amazing how good a shooter looks in videos where they edit out all the misses. If you'd never seen Gordon play and saw that video you'd think he was a very good shooter.



If he can shoot half that well he'll have a long NBA career with multiple All Star game appearances.

That's why when I watch videos like this I look at shooting stroke rather than makes or misses.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's why when I watch videos like this I look at shooting stroke rather than makes or misses.

Oh I get it the thing is Gordon has always been that way, his makes all look like a good shooter, it's the misses that tell you he's not been a good shooter they're ugly misses. Guys like Curry or Thompson you can see them go 0-10 and still know they're a good shooter. With Gordon it's either a swish, or a miss and usually a bad miss.

But if he has truly fixed his shooting he will be a great NBA player, I just seriously doubt he has.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, I'm mostly bitter. I really thought he was going to go to the UofA and I talked him up to everyone and then he had the nerve to go to SD State. I pretty much guaranteed he'd be the next great superstar but he's more like Marion than he is Jordan. Not that Shawn is a bad player by any stretch but they both show glimpses of greatness unfulfilled. But like Marion, I can see him going from everyone's favorite to the person everyone complains about once he signs his max contract and is expected to be the new face of the franchise.

Steve

He might have gone there if UA had been more settled at the time but they were in a coaching carousel at the time.

That was an amazing class, the 2 best players in the state of California that year were Derrick Williams and Leonard but at the time everyone had the Wear twins, Reeves Nelson and Brendan Lane all rated ahead of them. During the year many moved them around a bit but Williams and Leonard went under the radar.

The year before it was Paul George, who played on the same AAU team as Jrue and Malcolm Lee yet UCLA never considered offering him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh I get it the thing is Gordon has always been that way, his makes all look like a good shooter, it's the misses that tell you he's not been a good shooter they're ugly misses. Guys like Curry or Thompson you can see them go 0-10 and still know they're a good shooter. With Gordon it's either a swish, or a miss and usually a bad miss.

But if he has truly fixed his shooting he will be a great NBA player, I just seriously doubt he has.

He hasn't. That's my point. He could, but he hasn't yet.

 

[slinslin]

If Gordon was a good shooter now people would take about this draft as a 4 man draft instead of 3.

Tier 1 Wiggins and Embiid
Tier 2 Parker and Exum
Tier 3 Vonleh, Gordon, Randle, Saric
Tier 4 Smart, Lavine etc

 

[slinslin]

btw there is liltte chance we pick Adreian Payne I think.

He has a lung condition that limits his playing time. Doubtful how he will fare in the NBA with an extreme schedule he will never play big minutes. Also our system and workouts involve a lot of running.

 

[Russ Smith]

He hasn't. That's my point. He could, but he hasn't yet.

OK but how many bad shooters in your lifetime have "fixed" their shooting? and the ones that have, how quickly?

I'm old enough to have watched Glenn Doc Rivers in HS, when he was in college my buddy and I used to argue who was the better guard him or Jordan. I said if Rivers fixes his jumper it would be Doc because he can play PG too. Clearly I was wrong, massively wrong, but guys like Rivers and Mark Jackson spend their entire career trying to fix their jumper with one coach after another.

There are guys who improve their shots, hell look at Patty Mills with the Spurs now, but Gordon doesn't seem to fit the profile of a kid that will. They're usually not that big. I think his shooting will get better, I just don't think he'll ever be a "good" shooter. If he is, he'll have an oustanding career, he's got everything else you could want.

 

[slinslin]

Amare Stoudemire..
Shawn Marion..
Blake Griffin..

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ok. I don't think there is any guarantee that Gordon will fix his jumper. But it is not nearly as bad as others I have seen. He just has to change his timing on his release. He needs to release just a fraction of second sooner. Archie has the same problem. I believe he can fix his problem too. He doesn't have to change his release point (like Leandro or Marion). And he doesn't jack knife the shot up with his body like Casey Jacobsen did.

Is it fixed? no.
Can it be fixed? easily
Will he actually fix it? don't know

This is exactly it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN4jJMdH5oY

 

[Russ Smith]

Amare Stoudemire..
Shawn Marion..
Blake Griffin..

I think they all got better but I wouldn't call any of them comparable. Stoudemire shot 66% from the line as a rookie, he was never to my knowledge anywhere near as weak a shooter as Gordon is. He's been over 70% every year since.

Marion shot over 80% as a rookie, again I wouldn't call him a great shooter, has a very weird looking shot, but he's never really been what I would call a poor shooter.

griffin is getting better I think he's probably the closest of the 3 to Gordon.

I just think it's fairly rare, and with Gordon we're talking about a kid who's had a personal shooting coach before, in fact multiple times. griffin struck me as a kid who just dunked on everyone in HS and college so it wasn't until he got to the NBA he realized he needed to work on his shot, Gordon has been working on his for years because he wants to play guard.

Will be interesting, if he can fix it, look out.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ok. I don't think there is any guarantee that Gordon will fix his jumper. But it is not nearly as bad as others I have seen. He just has to change his timing on his release. He needs to release just a fraction of second sooner. Archie has the same problem. I believe he can fix his problem too. He doesn't have to change his release point (like Leandro or Marion). And he doesn't jack knife the shot up with his body like Casey Jacobsen did.

Is it fixed? no.
Can it be fixed? easily
Will he actually fix it? don't know

This is exactly it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN4jJMdH5oY

Fair enough, he has a clear hitch I agree.

BTW that's how Ben Howland taught shooting at UCLA too they'd show drills and they all did that little dip before coming up which made them bend their knees and was a timing thing. Some guys got better, some like Luc never did. Kyle Anderson worked all summer on his shot and release, still has a slow release, but he got MUCH better because he fixed the hitch part of it by releasing it sooner as you're saying. But then he also shoots almost a set shot as Hornacek is having Goodwin do.

 

[slinslin]

Add PJ Tucker to the list of players that figured out how to shoot.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns work out the following players per Paul Coro on twitter:

Paul CoroVerified account ‏@paulcoro

Today's #Suns workout: ASU G J. Carson, Florida F P. Young, NDSU G T. Braun, PSU G T. Frazier, Stanford F J. Huestis, Baylor F C. Jefferson.

The Suns continue their due diligence into researching the second round of the draft and those players that are not drafted.

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/471677617679003648

 

[Russ Smith]

The Suns work out the following players per Paul Coro on twitter:



The Suns continue their due diligence into researching the second round of the draft and those players that are not drafted.

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/471677617679003648

I'm pulling for Huestis, was one of my favorite non UCLA players the last few years. Undersized but great kid, blocks shots, rebounds, guards multiple positions. Tough kid, limited on offense but loved him in college.

 

[Russ Smith]

Side note on Gordon since I seem to be the only one who noticed this. Last year the NCAA banned 4 AAU programs because they said they had "ties" to NBA agent Andy Miller and were in telling the AAU coaches to recruit more kids to their program so they could try and funnel said kids to Miller if they got to the NBA. The NCAA said that was a violation of NCAA rules, can't have that connection to an agent, all 4 programs essentially just reformed with a new name.

This year Aaron Gordon played 1 year in college, turned pro, and then hired Calvin Andrews as his agent, of BDA. The same Calvin Andrews who is a co founder of the Oakland Soldiers AAU program that Gordon played his entire AAU career for.

Not in any way saying there was some contract in place or even a deal, just I find it odd that less than a year after going after 4 programs they THINK might have connections to Andy Miller, the NCAA is completely disinterested in Calvin Andrews representing a guy who played for his AAU program?

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm pulling for Huestis, was one of my favorite non UCLA players the last few years. Undersized but great kid, blocks shots, rebounds, guards multiple positions. Tough kid, limited on offense but loved him in college.

I haven't followed him, however, it appears his versatility as a defensive player will have to carry him in the NBA until he develops an offensive game.

How would you feel about Jahii Carson in the second round if he is there at #50?

 

[Russ Smith]

I haven't followed him, however, it appears his versatility as a defensive player will have to carry him in the NBA until he develops an offensive game.

How would you feel about Jahii Carson in the second round if he is there at #50?

Don't like Carson I think he's an undersized 2. Talented athlete but doesn't really think like a PG.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I haven't followed him, however, it appears his versatility as a defensive player will have to carry him in the NBA until he develops an offensive game.

How would you feel about Jahii Carson in the second round if he is there at #50?

I think I'd prefer him as a summer camp invitee and draft Powell from Stanford, or Bachynski from ASU with our second rounder. I've read all the knocks about Jordan here but I think worst case scenario he becomes a quality big off the bench. I think Carson will be available for a summer camp invite, if not this year than next year or the next. His game didn't develop as expected and I could see it taking a couple of trips to the D League for the light to come on for him. Bachynski has true NBA center size and the quickness to continue blocking shots at the next level. He needs to get serious in the weight room but he has the frame we want.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't like Carson I think he's an undersized 2. Talented athlete but doesn't really think like a PG.

I'm thinking he is more of an Ish Smith type player that has more offensive potential. However, some of my concerns about Carson are lack of size, not being able to shooting off the dribble, turnovers and of course defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think I'd prefer him as a summer camp invitee and draft Powell from Stanford, or Bachynski from ASU with our second rounder. I've read all the knocks about Jordan here but I think worst case scenario he becomes a quality big off the bench. I think Carson will be available for a summer camp invite, if not this year than next year or the next. His game didn't develop as expected and I could see it taking a couple of trips to the D League for the light to come on for him. Bachynski has true NBA center size and the quickness to continue blocking shots at the next level. He needs to get serious in the weight room but he has the frame we want.

Steve

I'm glad someone else is intrigued about Bachynski.