Why JG and DP were fired

GimmedaBall

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Why JG and DP were fired---speculation as to why it happened.

(1) MO/MB wanted to maintain KM’s potential trade value. When JG came out and said that JB would start even if KM were healthy, that sleight-of-hand to have KM presented with value went in the trash can. Teams took note of what the HC thought of his QB and that a backup QB was starting over him. DP may well have had a role in that decision to sit KM—which put his head on the block as well. Had the Cards gone on to any kind of respectable record with that decision, perhaps JG/DP would still be here. Add a 1-11 record with JB and flushing any trade value for KM—too much for MO/MB to forgive. KM walked away with a good chunk of the salary cap and the Cards did not recover a pair of sweatsocks in return.

(2) MO/MB were looking into a QB in this draft. We had that #3 and were in prime position to get a QB. Early on, Simpson was rated at QB1 with others falling somehwere behind. When Simpson faltered (injuries) and Mendoza rose in ranking, Cards now had two QB at the top of the wish-list. When it became clear that the Raiders were taking Mendoza, that left the Cards to consider Simpson.

My guess is that MO ordered JG to fire DP. That would still leave open the hiring of MLF as our OC (still a promotion over his role with the Rams). The goal would be to pair Simpson with a ‘West Coast’ OC in MLF.

JG refused to fire his OC DP, and the result was that he and DP were fired and MLF was brought in not as the OC but the HC. That would give some rationale as to why the DC Rallis was retained and only the O side of the ball was let go. It looked to me that the DP was able to cobble together a reasonable O with JB—even with all the injuries to the OL and RB—and outcoached DC Rallis. DP put together one offensive playbook for KM and then---on the fly---put in an entire new playbook for JB. That was some adjustments to make mid-season. His firing had more to do with the KM benching and the desire to have a ‘West Coast’ OC (now a HC) for a QB like Simpson. (Even Beck looks to have the skill set to run a West Coast O.)

Of course, that plan went for naught because the Rams also had their eye on Simpson as a future QB when age/retirement caught up with Stafford. Did the Rams outflank the Cards by keeping their interest in Simpson secret? Or did the Cards outflank the Rams in having to use that #13 pick when the Cards allowed rumors to flow that they were going to move back into the low first round to take Simpson?

Rams are in a ‘win-now’ window with their aging QB. Still, they did not trade down for more picks or take a player at #13 who would step in and provide immediate help this season. Another top CB would have been nice. Rams might have been able to trade off #13, get more picks and get both Simpson + other assets. That is, if they were not concerned that another team would then jump them for Simpson if they vacated #13. MO may have played the Rams to take that QB instead of a top WR or D player. Now, that is a debate for another thread. LOL.
 

oaken1

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I think you're overcomplicating things. The Occam's Razor answer is that JG had a historically bad run for a Cardinal's coach. Let that sink in. Yes, it was that pathetic.
And...worse than losing...
He embarrassed the organization, and Mike Bidwill, when he assaulted a player on the sideline for making a bone head play.
That move likely cost him the locker room... it certainly cost him the support of his owner...not even Mike's long time buddy Steve keim could survive publicly humiliating the organization.
 

oaken1

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Why JG and DP were fired---speculation as to why it happened.

(1) MO/MB wanted to maintain KM’s potential trade value. When JG came out and said that JB would start even if KM were healthy, that sleight-of-hand to have KM presented with value went in the trash can. Teams took note of what the HC thought of his QB and that a backup QB was starting over him. DP may well have had a role in that decision to sit KM—which put his head on the block as well. Had the Cards gone on to any kind of respectable record with that decision, perhaps JG/DP would still be here. Add a 1-11 record with JB and flushing any trade value for KM—too much for MO/MB to forgive. KM walked away with a good chunk of the salary cap and the Cards did not recover a pair of sweatsocks in return.

(2) MO/MB were looking into a QB in this draft. We had that #3 and were in prime position to get a QB. Early on, Simpson was rated at QB1 with others falling somehwere behind. When Simpson faltered (injuries) and Mendoza rose in ranking, Cards now had two QB at the top of the wish-list. When it became clear that the Raiders were taking Mendoza, that left the Cards to consider Simpson.

My guess is that MO ordered JG to fire DP. That would still leave open the hiring of MLF as our OC (still a promotion over his role with the Rams). The goal would be to pair Simpson with a ‘West Coast’ OC in MLF.

JG refused to fire his OC DP, and the result was that he and DP were fired and MLF was brought in not as the OC but the HC. That would give some rationale as to why the DC Rallis was retained and only the O side of the ball was let go. It looked to me that the DP was able to cobble together a reasonable O with JB—even with all the injuries to the OL and RB—and outcoached DC Rallis. DP put together one offensive playbook for KM and then---on the fly---put in an entire new playbook for JB. That was some adjustments to make mid-season. His firing had more to do with the KM benching and the desire to have a ‘West Coast’ OC (now a HC) for a QB like Simpson. (Even Beck looks to have the skill set to run a West Coast O.)

Of course, that plan went for naught because the Rams also had their eye on Simpson as a future QB when age/retirement caught up with Stafford. Did the Rams outflank the Cards by keeping their interest in Simpson secret? Or did the Cards outflank the Rams in having to use that #13 pick when the Cards allowed rumors to flow that they were going to move back into the low first round to take Simpson?

Rams are in a ‘win-now’ window with their aging QB. Still, they did not trade down for more picks or take a player at #13 who would step in and provide immediate help this season. Another top CB would have been nice. Rams might have been able to trade off #13, get more picks and get both Simpson + other assets. That is, if they were not concerned that another team would then jump them for Simpson if they vacated #13. MO may have played the Rams to take that QB instead of a top WR or D player. Now, that is a debate for another thread. LOL.
That's creative.
The only part I might concede...
Coach flower certainly made Monti aware of his former employer and now rival being infatuated with Simpson...possibly allowing Monti to manipulate the Rams into spending a higher pick on a player that won't contribute
 

FB94

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I think you're overcomplicating things. The Occam's Razor answer is that JG had a historically bad run for a Cardinal's coach. Let that sink in. Yes, it was that pathetic
Agree with this straight forward view. The football was bad. Only ? I have is why Rallis was retained. Either JG held him back from running the defense philosophy he wanted, or MB wanted to save $
 

imaCafan

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What is Rallis' salary? Maybe somewhere between 1-2 million? I know MB is cheap, but that isn't that much compared to the overall picture.
 
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GimmedaBall

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this is the reason

Benjamin Albright (or equivalent) reported that JG was going to stay until JG refused to make any (significant) changes to his staff
Do you have a source for that comment---it would help make my point on why JG was fired.
 
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GimmedaBall

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Agree with this straight forward view. The football was bad. Only ? I have is why Rallis was retained. Either JG held him back from running the defense philosophy he wanted, or MB wanted to save $
That's the puzzle that bumps the changes to the coaching staff beyond the 'Occam's Razor' rationale of accepting the 'simple' answer. The 'simple' answer would have been to fire the entire staff and/or not renew them all (and even MO if we want to get real).

Why did DC Rallis get to stay? I believe more of the games were lost as a result of the D not being able to hold on to the lead than were lost because the O did not put up the points (I'll have to go back and look at each game and determine the 'pivot' point where the game was lost. My first impression was that more was on the D than the O. Anyone have this answer at their fingertips?))

In my view, I think DP did a good job under the circumstances. He worked with KM and tailored the O to what KM dictated; when KM went down, he revamped it for JB. Did we see the same adjustments either in game or over the course of the injury-plagued season from Rallis and his D????

Also, Occam's Razor does NOT mean that the simple answer is the 'correct' answer. It is the one to try on first---and when the issue is complicated, the simple answer may not be sufficient. (Had to edit and put the NOT in there. LOL)
 
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GimmedaBall

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And...worse than losing...
He embarrassed the organization, and Mike Bidwill, when he assaulted a player on the sideline for making a bone head play.
That move likely cost him the locker room... it certainly cost him the support of his owner...not even Mike's long time buddy Steve keim could survive publicly humiliating the organization.
When that happened, I recall a debate as to what impact it would have.

I'm not sure if JG's anger cost him the locker room---have you seen any player comment that came out against him for his public display of anger & aggression vs. DeMarc? I haven't.

There were players gathering around DeMarc on the sidelines trying to console him when JG came up and thumped him. I think JG was actually doing what plenty of the players would have liked to do---that bonehead play was part of the reason the Cards lost a game they were winning. All the effort went down the tubes with the flip of the ball.

If that happened back on the streets when I was a kid, we wouldn't have needed the coach to thump DeMarc---he would have got a smack down from other players.

That apparently didn't keep JG from moving on. Green Bay is in a closer window to the play-offs and SB than the Cards and they made the quick hiriing decison to bring JG aboard.
 
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BurqueCardFan

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And...worse than losing...
He embarrassed the organization, and Mike Bidwill, when he assaulted a player on the sideline for making a bone head play.
That move likely cost him the locker room... it certainly cost him the support of his owner...not even Mike's long time buddy Steve keim could survive publicly humiliating the organization.
Funny, that's the one thing Gannon did that I absolutely approved of. Finally showed a little fire. He should have been grabbing face masks. That's how bad that play was from Demercado.
 

Harry

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I think you're overcomplicating things. The Occam's Razor answer is that JG had a historically bad run for a Cardinal's coach. Let that sink in. Yes, it was that pathetic.
A defensive coach who couldn’t adapt his system to the personnel. He tried instead to fit square pegs into round holes. This will be a curious year.
 

Zalixar

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A defensive coach who couldn’t adapt his system to the personnel. He tried instead to fit square pegs into round holes. This will be a curious year.

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GimmedaBall

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A defensive coach who couldn’t adapt his system to the personnel. He tried instead to fit square pegs into round holes. This will be a curious year.
Any thoughts as to why JG and DP were fired (or not renewed) and DC Rallis is still on board? Was Rallis following JG's mandate on how to run the D OR was Rallis given leeway to make the decisions on D??

My impression---at least on game day with JG on the sidelines with his headset---was that our DC Rallis was making the in-game calls. JG looked to be an interested observer who would chime in every so often??? My impression was that JG was letting his co-ordinators handle their responsibility.
 
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GimmedaBall

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Yes. For example, Kyler Murray was not traded.

QED
So, you don't know. You think maybe it was because JG ruined his trade value by declaring JB would start even if KM was healthy?

quod erat demonstrandum
 

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