Mike Budenholzer - Officially Suns new Head Coach - NOW FIRED on 4/14/2025

[Hoop Head]

It's weird to me that the media are only now coming to this realization, when it was blindingly obvious the instant the Durant trade was consummated.

I think that speaks to how modern media is always prisoners of the moment. I recall this dark stretch being mentioned by most outlets back when the KD trade was made but they didn't explore the negative side much and hyped KD. They didn't discuss it much because what's there to discuss watching the team fall short in real time. They did talk about the shortcomings but seemed to omit the future while Vogel was here and scapegoated him. Once Budenholzer arrived and the wheels were falling off, it was obvious the issues weren't coaching so much as overall construction.

 

[Cheesebeef]

True, but for that matter, is there any reason not to? Someone has to be on the roster.

Yes. The team needs more draft picks, especially in the years we aren’t going to get killed by pick swaps.

This team is going to win 15-25 games whether Booker is on the team or not. We saw that before CP3 and we’ve seen that without KD. And that arena is gonna be empty with a team that bad regardless if Booker’s on it. So there’s literally nothing to be gained in keeping him and there could be if we traded him.

I’m betting the Hawks could be stupid enough to try and salvage Trey Young… or the Spurs could be a great option. As they’re overflowing with picks, young talent and Hawks picks… and this is morbid, but the outside possibility that Wemby’s thrombosis derails his career.

Just doing nothing accomplishes absolutely nothing while trading him could bring young talent in a variety of ways.

 

[taz02]

There are reasons to pay Booker the max. Fan draw, and loyalty are important. He's a great player who doesn't make waves or create distractions when the team is in the tank and players come here to play with him.

The problem, he's not good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I see no way out of this mess without trading him.

However, if we can somehow move on from Beal, clear some cap space, and get a significant haul for KD the rebuild might not take as long as we think.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think waiting on an extension makes sense for both sides in regards to Booker. We can see what we get from the KD trade, what happens with Beal, and how competitive the team will be. If it looks bleak, Booker can bail. If it doesn't then he we can talk new money. I think a flat deal for a lesser amount could make sense for all parties involved if Booker trusts Ishbia to continue cutting checks to make the team competitive. The aprons limit Ishbia's ability to do much of anything with his checkbook except make the hole larger. So Booker on a deal that starts at the max and stays the same salary for the next 3-4 years, or whatever the extension covers, provides a little extra wiggle room. He can have a trade kicker included so if he is dealt then he gets the increase as kickers can be up to 15% of a deal, I believe. That way if it doesn't work, Booker can leave and still get his money.

 

[taz02]

I think waiting on an extension makes sense for both sides in regards to Booker. We can see what we get from the KD trade, what happens with Beal, and how competitive the team will be. If it looks bleak, Booker can bail. If it doesn't then he we can talk new money. I think a flat deal for a lesser amount could make sense for all parties involved if Booker trusts Ishbia to continue cutting checks to make the team competitive. The aprons limit Ishbia's ability to do much of anything with his checkbook except make the hole larger. So Booker on a deal that starts at the max and stays the same salary for the next 3-4 years, or whatever the extension covers, provides a little extra wiggle room. He can have a trade kicker included so if he is dealt then he gets the increase as kickers can be up to 15% of a deal, I believe. That way if it doesn't work, Booker can leave and still get his money.

I'm not sure it makes sense for Booker. If I'm Booker, I'll take the max money possible as soon as possible. The LAST thing the suns want, or need is a battle with a disgruntled Booker over a few million bucks.

Trade him or pay him.

 

[elindholm]

The problem, he's not good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I see no way out of this mess without trading him.

There is no way the Suns are sniffing a championship during the remainder of Booker's career, regardless of who he is playing for. Realistic aspirations for the Suns are much, much lower. We will be into the 2030s before they even win another playoff series.

 

[Covert Rain]

There is no way the Suns are sniffing a championship during the remainder of Booker's career, regardless of who he is playing for. Realistic aspirations for the Suns are much, much lower. We will be into the 2030s before they even win another playoff series.

This. There is no way if Book is your best player. Outside of a major trade to get another #1, we are destined to ride out Book's career as a middling team.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

two playoff teams canned their coach right before the playoffs but we didn't - their coaches far exceeded what bud (puke emoji) did but we let bud finish the year

i think it's because we fired monty and vogel - because bud will be the third in a row to go

i think this was smart - it'll be hard enough landing any sought after coaching talent but if we had made bud walk the plank while the ship was sinking... idk who would still want to come here

i miss monty

 

[CardNots]

two playoff teams canned their coach right before the playoffs but we didn't - their coaches far exceeded what bud (puke emoji) did but we let bud finish the year

i think it's because we fired monty and vogel - because bud will be the third in a row to go

i think this was smart - it'll be hard enough landing any sought after coaching talent but if we had made bud walk the plank while the ship was sinking... idk who would still want to come here

i miss monty

I miss monty’s assistant who we let get away

 

[Superbone]

I miss monty’s assistant who we let get away

Willie Green. I hope we have a shot at getting him from NO.

 

[Hoop Head]

I miss Sophie

 

[95pro]

I miss Sophie

And Linsey

 

[Superbone]

And Linsey

Is Pflugraad (sp?) next?

 

[Hoop Head]

Is Pflugraad (sp?) next?

She's just "Not Lindsey" to me.

 

[1982baskets]

I will buy more effective but not way better. He was awful too. He reminded much of Pringles who had zero ability to make in game adjustments. When things went south it seemed you were not coming back from that on his teams. He was a better defensive coach but that is about it IMO. Also, this was never a Bud team. We didn't have his type of players. We didn't have centers that could shoot the 3 after Nurk was gone (not that he was great). He didn't build this roster. I am not saying he didn't under perform as a coach. I am saying as long as this team wasn't built for his type of team? He was doomed.

I respect your opinion, but if Jones/Matt had any sense they would have seen that a team that was very ordinary on defense and a not so great fitting big 3 end up with nearly 50 wins. This season, that may have been a third seed. Point is, if you really back the coach, you have to look into his history and what he was able to accomplish and how. Vogel won with defensive players and great defensive anchors. In Indiana he had Hibbert and a lot of good role players who defended. In LA, he had Anthony Davis/Dwight Howard and again good role players.

All we really needed to do to avoid this horrendous situation was make some moves to help Vogel get a better defensive roster. Now you put elite defense around talents like KD/Book/Beal, you may still not win the West but at least you have a chance to do some damage and maybe win the West. You had a fighting chance with Vogel. When we fired him and blamed him, we pretty much sealed our fate.

As I said, Nurk is not even a good defender. He made Nurk look like a solid starting Center and he may Grayson look like he belonged as a starter. We had no point guard and we had not real defensive quality players. We should have been more patient. There's no easy way out of this. No matter what, with Beal/Durant investments, we need to see out a few years. Now we're in a way worse place than we were a year ago. We could and should be competitive and were under Vogel. Under Bud, we weren't even competitive.

 

[Covert Rain]

I respect your opinion, but if Jones/Matt had any sense they would have seen that a team that was very ordinary on defense and a not so great fitting big 3 end up with nearly 50 wins. This season, that may have been a third seed. Point is, if you really back the coach, you have to look into his history and what he was able to accomplish and how. Vogel won with defensive players and great defensive anchors. In Indiana he had Hibbert and a lot of good role players who defended. In LA, he had Anthony Davis/Dwight Howard and again good role players.

All we really needed to do to avoid this horrendous situation was make some moves to help Vogel get a better defensive roster. Now you put elite defense around talents like KD/Book/Beal, you may still not win the West but at least you have a chance to do some damage and maybe win the West. You had a fighting chance with Vogel. When we fired him and blamed him, we pretty much sealed our fate.

As I said, Nurk is not even a good defender. He made Nurk look like a solid starting Center and he may Grayson look like he belonged as a starter. We had no point guard and we had not real defensive quality players. We should have been more patient. There's no easy way out of this. No matter what, with Beal/Durant investments, we need to see out a few years. Now we're in a way worse place than we were a year ago. We could and should be competitive and were under Vogel. Under Bud, we weren't even competitive.

You will get no argument from me in terms of construction of the roster. Getting Beal was a HUGE mistake. Redundancy at the position, constantly hurt and to me didn't help defensively at all. I said before the Beal trade they needed to get another big in there to anchor the defense. I know @Mainstreet and I were beating that drum. I don't dispute Vogel was a better defensive coach than Bud but Vogel didn't do much else well. In terms of Nurk he was great for about a half season then even under Vogel that seemed to vanish the 2nd half.

As it turns out Vogel and Bud were both bad choices. They went after coaches who won a title. It's not a bad tactic but we found out that unless those coaches have the type of teams they had success with? It doesn't matter much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK so he (James Jones) can only get players on a small budget. He still fails to address obvious weaknesses in size and athleticsm. We've been small and weak on the inside for ages.

And we see teams successfully identify and develop undrafted talent. Jones claim to fame for this squad is Dunn and oso. Zero other surprises.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It really is. We don't exactly know who's responsible for what but the whole tone of our moves changed greatly at that point. Leads me to strongly believe that Ishbia was the driving force. It's all unlimited money driven without foresight.

The reality is we are all just guessing who pulled what strings. Only ishbia, bartelstrun, jones and like zeke kbow. And we have zero say. So just back and watch I guess.

 

[leclerc]

I want Sophie back.

 

[1982baskets]

^
I think Vogel was a good choice. Bud, no. Vogel's run was 49 wins and you saw some defense and competitiveness. We're overlooking that if Vogel was the coach that team would be focused on improving their defense around a core that was established that included Nurk/Grayson. Instead they made Nurk/Grayson look worse under Bud.

It's as if they have this mentality of a coach should transform a mediocre team to a title team and there's no in between. With Bud we were mediocre, borderline bad. With Vogel we were competitive and playoff level. With Vogel I felt if the team had made a few solid moves in the offseason last year they would have come back better this year.

No matter what coach you bring in, you're not winning a title with this group. However that doesn't mean you can't be good. You don't have to be this bad. That's all I have been arguing for a while. Baby steps. Slowly get better. The West was really pretty much a crapshoot this year. Luka got traded. AD got traded. KAT got traded. Nuggets fired their coach. We may have been able to get into the top 4 and make a little run. With slightly better defense and some more pieces to the team last year that won 49.

 

[CardNots]

^
I think Vogel was a good choice. Bud, no. Vogel's run was 49 wins and you saw some defense and competitiveness. We're overlooking that if Vogel was the coach that team would be focused on improving their defense around a core that was established that included Nurk/Grayson. Instead they made Nurk/Grayson look worse under Bud.

It's as if they have this mentality of a coach should transform a mediocre team to a title team and there's no in between. With Bud we were mediocre, borderline bad. With Vogel we were competitive and playoff level. With Vogel I felt if the team had made a few solid moves in the offseason last year they would have come back better this year.

No matter what coach you bring in, you're not winning a title with this group. However that doesn't mean you can't be good. You don't have to be this bad. That's all I have been arguing for a while. Baby steps. Slowly get better. The West was really pretty much a crapshoot this year. Luka got traded. AD got traded. KAT got traded. Nuggets fired their coach. We may have been able to get into the top 4 and make a little run. With slightly better defense and some more pieces to the team last year that won 49.

Can you maintain a fan base being not as bad?

 

[Yuma]

What incident led to Bol Bol falling out of Suns rotation?

Suns big man Bol Bol went from surprise addition to the rotation to a nonfactor midway through last season. So, what happened?

arizonasports.com

Bol Bol was REALLY in Coach Bud's doghouse. The article says he didn't come to Plumlee's defense versus Adams, so Coach Bud benched him basically for the rest of the season.

 

[Hoop Head]

What incident led to Bol Bol falling out of Suns rotation?

Suns big man Bol Bol went from surprise addition to the rotation to a nonfactor midway through last season. So, what happened?

arizonasports.com

Bol Bol was REALLY in Coach Bud's doghouse. The article says he didn't come to Plumlee's defense versus Adams, so Coach Bud benched him basically for the rest of the season.

If it was Book, KD, Beal, or a guard involved in a ruckus then I can see being mad at Bol² for not being involved and having his teammates back but Plumlee was ejaculating dudes left and right towards the end of the season so I don't blame Bol² for wanting to steer clear.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Happy 420 3 candy cube edibles on blessed day)) lol

And to new hc workin in phoenix whoever may be

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Happy 420 3 candy cube edibles on blessed day)) lol

And to new hc workin in phoenix whoever may be

happy 420 man