2024 Free Agency thread

[RON_IN_OC]

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[GatorAZ]

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We’ve been vindicated! @Russ Smith

 

[RON_IN_OC]

We’ve been vindicated! @Russ Smith

This also probably sets the floor for Hollywood next off-season if he just has another meh year.

 

[daves]

McBride would be the only possibility IMO.

Hate to do it after only 2 years but he is only on a 4 year not a 5 and would def be cheaper now than after next year imo. Next year if he continues on This path is gonna be a HUGE contract.

Not possible:

Renegotiations: Rookie contracts for drafted players can't be renegotiated or altered in any way until after the last regular-season game of the third contracted year.

 

[bankybruce]

Not possible:

Interesting that is applies only to drafted players. It looks like UDFAs can extend after year 2 instead of 3 for drafted players. Prudy would be better off have he not been picked and signed in SF instead.

 

[daves]

Just a reminder about the historical success rate of signing Big Johns. I originally posted this back in September based on these articles by Mike Sando in the Athletic. Sando listed the top 11 free agent signings of 2022 and 2023 by APY.

I'd say the majority of teams deeply regret these deals. Status column is mine, based on info in the article and updates I made today:

2022 :

Rank	Player	Signed By	APY	Status
1	Von Miller	BUF	$20M	missed 11 games; zero stats in 2023
2	Christian Kirk	JAC	$18M
3	Chandler Jones	LV	$17M	went off the deep end, cut
4	J.C. Jackson	LAC	$16.5M	traded -> NE, then cut
5	Brandon Scherff	JAC	$16.5M
6	Allen Robinson	LAR	$15.5M	traded -> PIT, then cut
7	Terron Armstead	NO	$15M	Pro Bowler
8	Haason Reddick	PHI	$15M	Pro Bowler
9	Foyesade Oluokun	JAC	$15M	literally never heard of him but OK
10	Marcus Williams	BAL	$14M	injured; missed 11 games
11	Za'Darius Smith	MIN	$14M	traded -> CLE

18% Pro Bowlers, 27% starters, 18% suffered major injuries, 36% bust/traded/cut by the signing team.

2023 (ditto):

Rank	Player	Signed By	APY	Status
1	Derrick Carr	NO	$37.5M	underperformed
2	Jimmy Garoppolo	LV	$24.25M	6 games, 77.7 passer rating, 33.9 QBR, injured, cut
3	Javon Hargrave	SF	$21M	Pro Bowl
4	Jawaan Taylor	KC	$20M	underperformed
5	Tremaine Edmunds	CHI	$18M	underperformed
6	Mike McGlinchey	DEN	$17.5M
7	Dre'Mont Jones	SEA	$17.2M
8	Orlando Brown Jr.	CIN	$16M
9	Jessie Bates III	ATL	$16M	Pro Bowl
10	Zach Allen	DEN	$15.9M	underperformed
11	Odell Beckham Jr.	BAL	$15M	13 games, 565 yards, 3 TDs, cut

18% Pro Bowlers, 27% decent starters, 36% underperforming starters, 18% cut.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Fuller will be released first.

If he has another year where he's among the worst starting CBs in the league, he will.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If he has another year where he's among the worst starting CBs in the league, he will.

He wasn't. False premise.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He wasn't. False premise.

He was according to Pro Football reference.

He gave up 8 TDs.

Antonio Hamilton was better than Fuller last year.

For reference, Kei'Trel Clark gave up a lower passer rating. Fuller sucked. He's just a name at this point.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He was according to Pro Football reference.

He gave up 8 TDs.

Antonio Hamilton was better than Fuller last year.

For reference, Kei'Trel Clark gave up a lower passer rating. Fuller sucked. He's just a name at this point.

Ridiculous, per usual. You cherry pick stats without looking at the bigger picture. Anyone who thinks Antonio Hamilton was better than Fuller isn't worth engaging...Antonio Hamilton is sitting at home like you and me and Fuller was just signed to a multi-year deal.

What is the point of arguing with someone who thinks Justin Jones is the equivalent of Zach Allen and Antonio Hamilton is better than Kyler Fuller? It's beyond parody.

 

[Russ Smith]

We’ve been vindicated! @Russ Smith

Yeah keep laughing Shane. When he's tearing up the league I'll have the last laugh!

(-:

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ridiculous, per usual. You cherry pick stats without looking at the bigger picture. Anyone who thinks Antonio Hamilton was better than Fuller isn't worth engaging...Antonio Hamilton is sitting at home like you and me and Fuller was just signed to a multi-year deal.

What is the point of arguing with someone who thinks Justin Jones is the equivalent of Zach Allen and Antonio Hamilton is better than Kyler Fuller? It's beyond parody.

Hehe PFF

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ridiculous, per usual. You cherry pick stats without looking at the bigger picture. Anyone who thinks Antonio Hamilton was better than Fuller isn't worth engaging...Antonio Hamilton is sitting at home like you and me and Fuller was just signed to a multi-year deal.

What is the point of arguing with someone who thinks Justin Jones is the equivalent of Zach Allen and Antonio Hamilton is better than Kyler Fuller? It's beyond parody.

Teams sign bad and washed up players all of the time. The Cardinals once though D'Anthony Baptiste belonged on a roster.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels.

You know you're losing a football argument when you turn to PFF.

 

[oaken1]

Just a reminder about the historical success rate of signing Big Johns. I originally posted this back in September based on these articles by Mike Sando in the Athletic. Sando listed the top 11 free agent signings of 2022 and 2023 by APY.

I'd say the majority of teams deeply regret these deals. Status column is mine, based on info in the article and updates I made today:

2022 :

Rank	Player	Signed By	APY	Status
1	Von Miller	BUF	$20M	missed 11 games; zero stats in 2023
2	Christian Kirk	JAC	$18M
3	Chandler Jones	LV	$17M	went off the deep end, cut
4	J.C. Jackson	LAC	$16.5M	traded -> NE, then cut
5	Brandon Scherff	JAC	$16.5M
6	Allen Robinson	LAR	$15.5M	traded -> PIT, then cut
7	Terron Armstead	NO	$15M	Pro Bowler
8	Haason Reddick	PHI	$15M	Pro Bowler
9	Foyesade Oluokun	JAC	$15M	literally never heard of him but OK
10	Marcus Williams	BAL	$14M	injured; missed 11 games
11	Za'Darius Smith	MIN	$14M	traded -> CLE

18% Pro Bowlers, 27% starters, 18% suffered major injuries, 36% bust/traded/cut by the signing team.

2023 (ditto):

Rank	Player	Signed By	APY	Status
1	Derrick Carr	NO	$37.5M	underperformed
2	Jimmy Garoppolo	LV	$24.25M	6 games, 77.7 passer rating, 33.9 QBR, injured, cut
3	Javon Hargrave	SF	$21M	Pro Bowl
4	Jawaan Taylor	KC	$20M	underperformed
5	Tremaine Edmunds	CHI	$18M	underperformed
6	Mike McGlinchey	DEN	$17.5M
7	Dre'Mont Jones	SEA	$17.2M
8	Orlando Brown Jr.	CIN	$16M
9	Jessie Bates III	ATL	$16M	Pro Bowl
10	Zach Allen	DEN	$15.9M	underperformed
11	Odell Beckham Jr.	BAL	$15M	13 games, 565 yards, 3 TDs, cut

18% Pro Bowlers, 27% decent starters, 36% underperforming starters, 18% cut.

add Pro bowlers and decent starters for positive and the others as negative and you are sitting right at 50/50

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Teams sign bad and washed up players all of the time. The Cardinals once though D'Anthony Baptiste belonged on a roster.

Yep, Fuller is washed, which is why every list had him as one of the top corners available, not your boy Ham. Good D'Anthony Baptiste reference though...it's both relevant and useful in this discussion.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels.

You know you're losing a football argument when you turn to PFF.

It's not just PFF - there are plenty of sources that think Fuller was one of the best available on the market. I can guarantee you that if Fuller were signed by the Cards, you'd be touting it as a genius move. Can't take you seriously on the subject, especially with your nonsense about "Antonio Hamilton was better". Just hilarious stuff.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't know, but there won't really be relevant free agents available then, anyway.



I'll never forget the Week 16 game when the offense playing much better scored 16 points against the Chicago Bears or Week 18 when they scored 20 points at home against a Seahawks team that refired their coach 10 days later.

Yes. The Cardinals were actually “lucky” to win 4 games. Several things broke right for them in my opinion in terms of wins. Unfortunately.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yep, Fuller is washed, which is why every list had him as one of the top corners available, not your boy Ham.

Cool story. The numbers say otherwise

I see your second favorite logical fallacy is appeal to authority just after strawman.

It just goes to show how silly a list is when they rank a guy high who was gave up a higher passer rating than Clark and Hamilton.

Good D'Anthony Baptiste reference though...it's both relevant and useful in this discussion.

It's completely relevant. Maybe the relevance buzzes right past your head. Just being on an NFL roster doesn't make you a good player. Just because you got signed to a big contract it doesn't mean that you are any good.

Fuller has a long history of solid play, but he was dog poo last year

It's not just PFF - there are plenty of sources that think Fuller was one of the best available on the market.

Neato and he got less total money than SMB.

I can guarantee you that if Fuller were signed by the Cards, you'd be touting it as a genius move.

Eh I tend to look at passer rating allowed on DBs. I wouldn't have been happy with Fuller.

Can't take you seriously on the subject, especially with your nonsense about "Antonio Hamilton was better". Just hilarious stuff.

Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. He sucked bro. If you had a defense that all gave up what Fuller gave up, you'd probably have a historically bad defense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes. The Cardinals were actually “lucky” to win 4 games. Several things broke right for them in my opinion in terms of wins. Unfortunately.

You could argue the flip side that the Cardinals were unlucky to win 4 games. It's a dumb concept that doesn't actually exist. You are your record.

 

[SoonerLou]

Lucky, unlucky.

All I know is we look awful in divisional games against the 49ers and Rams. And we couldnt put away the Seahawks.

And there were people who thought the Rams would have nearly as bad of a season as us. We need to crush the draft because Im not sure we moved the needle much in terms of divisional games. Maybe hope the Seahawks coach is awful, but he's been getting "Defensive McVay" acclaim so we'll see.

 

[DVontel]

but he's been getting "Defensive McVay" acclaim so we'll see.

Like Brandon Staley?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually many here have said they feel this would be a full 2 year rebuild and expect bigger things in year 3 you’re not alone.

Then that’s a three year rebuild

 

[Mulli]

Then that’s a three year rebuild

Or a reload or a reset?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because even if the Cardinals have the cash it's still not smart to blow it on a few free agents. The Raiders went and signed Wilkins and have only signed five other players because they blew their was on one guy...one guy who has mostly been a plus run defender and finally rushed the passer in a contract year.

I initially wanted Wilkins, but my opinion changed when I started to consider: 1) the Cardinals need probably three DL 2) overall improvement from a mid tier DL to Wilkins isn't really all that high.

I think the Cardinals are about the same but they had A LOT of roster openings to fill. You sign a big free agent and you probably can't fill other openings.

He wasnt really contributing much to begin. I'll change my tune on this issue if the draft doesn't fill the WR position with a player or two. I prefer two WRs, but that could change with a vet being added during the second wave.

The Cardinals have added talent. I don't see the problem.

The Cardinals have signed FAs.

Do you think that this team could be a bear playoff team this year? I don't. I think they can be entertaining, and feisty, but a playoff team expectation is sheer lunacy.

Just look at the Arians turn around again, and you'll see that the team was built through the draft and free agency supplemented draft picks. That the model that works and it's essentially what Mont is doing.

Now he has to hit on picks at a greater rate than Keim.

Hmm Chris makes a good point. In your opinion this was a 7-10 team last year if kyler wasn’t hurt. This season kyler isn’t hurt. Wouldn’t you expect a 7-10 team to try to make the leap to playoff team?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kendall Fuller is nearly 30. Yeah let's sign a guy that won't be playing at a high level on the next playoff team!

SMB is the guy low candidate who has a chance to really outplay his contract.

A historically bad deep threat. @kerouac9 posted his numbers earlier this off season and he was among the worst deep threats in the past 20 years.

I fully expected the Cardinals to resign him because it was the Cardinals thing to do.

They could but it would necessarily be smart too.

What big free agent did they sign?

Why would it not be smart to win 9 or 10 games?

 

[kerouac9]

We traded him to Denver.