What Have I Got Against Murray?

[BW52]

Don't divert like a politician. Lol. My point was my point..sample size my friend.

And no, I don't have them memorized by heart.. but I've seen enough and read enough from tons of different sources and I'm not convinced until multiple eyeballs confirm what I'm seeing as well.

I am not diverting.You simply refuse to believe your boy has questions and concerns brought up by a legitimate source.You are in denial my friend.

 

[dscher]

I am not diverting.You simply refuse to believe your boy has questions and concerns brought up by a legitimate source.You are in denial my friend.

One source. One. I'll be here when you have more for me...

 

[BW52]

One source. One. I'll be here when you have more for me...

heres 3 to start with-OURLADS,NFL.com,Draft network

 

[Krangodnzr]

You mean like Brian Jordan. I’m not saying Murray leaves after a year. However 3 years in, if he’s been taking a beating, baseball may seem very attractive. He’d belong to the A’s. He’d likely get $10 mil to sign if healthy. At 24 then he could be in the majors by 26. You can play baseball for many more years than football

And if he is leaving, the Cardinals wont be interested in him anyway because he's failed.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Didn't seem to help the Rams very much.



What is Murray is trash and Josh Rosen turns out to be the player you projected him to be 10 months ago? There's nothing behind this reasoning.

The difference is that Rosen showed next to nothing in his one season in the NFL to make me believe in him.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I generally enjoy your comments but for a QB who has never played without a talented supporting cast I would want to know how he could handle probably losing more games in a month than he did in college as a starter.To me that's a legit question.ITs not punishing anyone its wondering how he would hjandle a situation he likely never faced before.Can he possibly stay cool and level-headed in the midst of a 3 or 4 game losing streak...that a real question and a concern.IF you think that's dumb that's your opinion and your business .IDK.

Not only that but getting hit like he has never been before multiple times How would his body hold up if he took the shots that Rosen took last and please Do Not say it Wont happen because he is so elusive

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I generally enjoy your comments but for a QB who has never played without a talented supporting cast I would want to know how he could handle probably losing more games in a month than he did in college as a starter.To me that's a legit question.ITs not punishing anyone its wondering how he would hjandle a situation he likely never faced before.Can he possibly stay cool and level-headed in the midst of a 3 or 4 game losing streak...that a real question and a concern.IF you think that's dumb that's your opinion and your business .IDK.

I don’t see you saying the same about Bosa or quinnen and they both played in supremely talented defenses. I mean bisa’s was so talented that Bosa supporters defend his low snap counts because of the incredible talent surrounding him. But we don’t see that used to the same extent detracting from him as kyler. And ironically, kyler as QB is the straw that stirs the offensive drink whereas a defense is only as good as the sum of the whole. In other words, kyler likely has greater impact on the success of the offense than has either quinnen or Bosa on their defenses success.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not only that but getting hit like he has never been before multiple times How would his body hold up if he took the shots that Rosen took last and please Do Not say it Wont happen because he is so elusive

Everyone that gets to the nfl gets hit like they never have before. Won’t know how that translates until we see it I guess. Wilson hasn’t crumbled. Neither has brees. They’re a slight bit taller but far from the norms.

 

[kerouac9]

The difference is that Rosen showed next to nothing in his one season in the NFL to make me believe in him.

Am I going to find out otherwise if I go back and look at some threads from six months ago?

 

[Solar7]

And if he is leaving, the Cardinals wont be interested in him anyway because he's failed.

Ah, yeah, exactly what we want as a team. The ol' "he failed and we busted" at #1. Surely, no way we want to keep the guy we pick at #1 for 10+ years, he's just any given pick.

Murray doesn't have to fail to leave. He can leave because he got his bell rung and can make money playing a sport where he doesn't get CTE.

Even if he makes minors-in-baseball money, what else do we think Kyler's gonna do? Be a CPA? I'm not calling him dumb, but the guy can go sit on his pile of already-earned millions after two seasons and go play another sport.

 

[Solar7]

I don’t see you saying the same about Bosa or quinnen and they both played in supremely talented defenses. I mean bisa’s was so talented that Bosa supporters defend his low snap counts because of the incredible talent surrounding him. But we don’t see that used to the same extent detracting from him as kyler. And ironically, kyler as QB is the straw that stirs the offensive drink whereas a defense is only as good as the sum of the whole. In other words, kyler likely has greater impact on the success of the offense than has either quinnen or Bosa on their defenses success.

We can isolate performances from Q or Bosa. We can watch hand placement. Drive. Individual competitions where they're literally contacting someone else on every play.

Kyler's super talented, but it's like playing NFL Blitz. His effect on the field depends on who gets open and wins their matchups, from a film perspective. I mean, please feel free to share a bunch of tight window Murray throws with me, that will dazzle.

Murray's success is of course much more important for the overall offense, but his failure is rock bottom for every other player. Bosa and Q can contribute and focus on that singular matchup, not the whole field.

Everyone that gets to the nfl gets hit like they never have before. Won’t know how that translates until we see it I guess. Wilson hasn’t crumbled. Neither has brees. They’re a slight bit taller but far from the norms.

Height's not really the point when it comes to durability. It's the frame, it's the style of play. Wilson is this incredible anomaly, I can't fight that, but he proved it time and time again. He always took every opportunity to prove he was the guy. Brees wasn't a guy predicated on the run. He shirked other expectations. They're still both taller, heavier, built more for the position.

In the modern era, Kyler's comp is probably more like Troy Smith.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Everyone that gets to the nfl gets hit like they never have before. Won’t know how that translates until we see it I guess. Wilson hasn’t crumbled. Neither has brees. They’re a slight bit taller but far from the norms.

So true

 

[BW52]

I don’t see you saying the same about Bosa or quinnen and they both played in supremely talented defenses. I mean bisa’s was so talented that Bosa supporters defend his low snap counts because of the incredible talent surrounding him. But we don’t see that used to the same extent detracting from him as kyler. And ironically, kyler as QB is the straw that stirs the offensive drink whereas a defense is only as good as the sum of the whole. In other words, kyler likely has greater impact on the success of the offense than has either quinnen or Bosa on their defenses success.

So by your words Bosa /Williams are parts of a whole and dependent on their teammates.So is Murray the only offensive guy out there and those other 10 guys are just decorations?Murray can`t be the straw without having other parts to the whole.Why should I say the same criticism about Bosa/Williams? Their supporters aren`t claiming they are " transcendent once a lifetime players are they?You roll with the hype you are going to get more scrutiny.Good pass rushers/run stuffers/disruptive defensive players can have a effect on a offense and cause offensive gameplans to change..Bosa has also been rated a the top prospect for nearly a year.Bosa was also Big 10 Dlineman of the year as a Soph.So that also shows talent.Murray is just as dependent on his teammates for success as anyone else.Thats the way I see it.

 

[kerouac9]

Everyone that gets to the nfl gets hit like they never have before. Won’t know how that translates until we see it I guess. Wilson hasn’t crumbled. Neither has brees. They’re a slight bit taller but far from the norms.

Bree’s had a shoulder injury that caused Miami to pass on him. He missed 5 games in 2003 where Doug Flutie started.

Russ hasn’t missed a practice as a pro due to injury.

 

[Chopper0080]

That's if you assume that Rosen is a good player.

What if Rosen is trash and Murray keeps playing at the level he always has?

It isn't about good or bad...it is about Rosen+Bosa/Williams being better than Murray alone. Because the facts are that Murray comes with more risks than Rosen.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Rams picked poorly. They could have turned those 3 1st rd picks into Luke Kuechly, Deandre Hopkins, and Khalil Mack. They would still have had another second round pick.

Are you confident that Keim will draft any better?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I got asked this in a chat room this morning. The answer is nothing. I just don’t think he’s the best pick. There’s a good chance he can play in this league but he’s not as certain to be an impact player as others. In that respect most scouts with whom I’ve talked, have him 7th. I guess I’m thinking BPA. What concerns us?
1. Only 1 year as a college starter
2. Played in a weak league defensively
3. Seemed to prefer baseball but was lured by signing figure. He could go back at any point.
4. He looked okay against Bama but not unstoppable.
5. Height is a realistic concern.
6. Overall size is a durability concern. He’ll be hit more often and harder in the NFL than in college.
7. Limited in scheme to a run/pass offense which increases the chance of injury.
8. Not clear he possesses the advanced skills, like reading defenses, that indicate film study ethic.
There were other minor concerns and issues that applied only to the Cards like cap impact. These, however, were enough to make me stick with Rosen.

Totally fair criticism. I believe #7 is the median I have seen across multiple rankings.

This is really going to be about how the organization really feels about Rosen going forward.

I also think your comments are reasonable and fair.

All prospects are just prospects until they aren't. No one can absolutely know for sure. Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, Manning, etc..... No one knows for sure.

 

[Chopper0080]

I also think your comments are reasonable and fair.

All prospects are just prospects until they aren't. No one can absolutely know for sure. Rodgers, Mahomes, Luck, Manning, etc..... No one knows for sure.

Some prospects come with more red flags than others. When you discount those red flags you look like a donkey.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Some prospects come with more red flags than others. When you discount those red flags you look like a donkey.

Donkey, donkey?

Move this to P&R!

 

[Krangodnzr]

It isn't about good or bad...it is about Rosen+Bosa/Williams being better than Murray alone. Because the facts are that Murray comes with more risks than Rosen.

Maybe. Maybe not.

This is why I'm comfortable with taking Williams/Bosa and sticking with Rosen, but I think the upside with Murray is greater.

 

[Chopper0080]

Maybe. Maybe not.

This is why I'm comfortable with taking Williams/Bosa and sticking with Rosen, but I think the upside with Murray is greater.

The upside with Jamarcus Russell was super high, but he failed because of known red flags. Are Murray's work ethic red flags that bad...no, but he has more of them.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Totally fair criticism. I believe #7 is the median I have seen across multiple rankings.

This is really going to be about how the organization really feels about Rosen going forward.

Yep. I see number 7 as well as the real concern.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The upside with Jamarcus Russell was super high, but he failed because of known red flags. Are Murray's work ethic red flags that bad...no, but he has more of them.

Russell was literally a drug addict. He came from the hood and had a poor support network.

Murray is a good kid by ALL accounts. His parents are well grounded people and are supportive. He grew up middle class.

Lincoln Riley had one, short conversation with Murray's dad. Everyone around the OU program said that Murray's dad had no contact with anyone. This overbearing father criticism has no basis in reality. He is an introvert, and has done a poor job managing the media. That's a criticism, sure, but it's not the same as imbibing purple drank like Jamarcus Russell.

Vince Young is another guy who had character red flags. One scout I heard write about him, said he red flagged him because he grew up in the hood with a single mother and virtually no male role models in his life. That was his big undoing, he didn't know how to handle the spot light. I don't think that will be the case with Murray since his father and uncle were around pro sports.

 

[Chopper0080]

Russell was literally a drug addict. He came from the hood and had a poor support network.

Murray is a good kid by ALL accounts. His parents are well grounded people and are supportive. He grew up middle class.

Lincoln Riley had one, short conversation with Murray's dad. Everyone around the OU program said that Murray's dad had no contact with anyone. This overbearing father criticism has no basis in reality. He is an introvert, and has done a poor job managing the media. That's a criticism, sure, but it's not the same as imbibing purple drank like Jamarcus Russell.

Vince Young is another guy who had character red flags. One scout I heard write about him, said he red flagged him because he grew up in the hood with a single mother and virtually no male role models in his life. That was his big undoing, he didn't know how to handle the spot light. I don't think that will be the case with Murray since his father and uncle were around pro sports.

and despite all of this, Murray still is "not a grinder".

 

[Chopper0080]

Rosen was the entitled one, and he never had questions about his work ethic. Murray is a super athletic and no one is worried that he is not the hardest worker.