Suns @ Clippers 11-28-18

[Chaplin]

That's my intent, and if for some reason you're getting a different message, I'm sorry.

My goal is to try to convince others on this board to see the same truth I see, so that my fellow fans do not settle for less from the franchise and team than we deserve as fans, particularly those of us who have been die-hard fans for 40+ years.

It’s not a truth—that’s what you’re not seeing. It is an opinion that you continually write in every post you write. Repeating something ad nauseum, especially on this site, isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. In fact it will end up doing the opposite.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was hoping we would draft Montrezl Harrell, I was hoping we would sign him in the offseason, oh well.

I'm a Harrell fan as well. He could play PF and backup center for the Suns. He would give the Suns some needed bulk and toughness inside.

Actually the Suns could have acquired some needed depth with the money they spent on Ariza.

 

[1Sun]

It’s not a truth—that’s what you’re not seeing. It is an opinion that you continually write in every post you write. Repeating something ad nauseum, especially on this site, isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. In fact it will end up doing the opposite.

I disagree, but to the point, I respect your right to disagree with me, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to stop trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[1tinsoldier]

It is an opinion that you continually write in every post you write. Repeating something ad nauseum...

it's opinion that we all write
and nauseam works both ways
especially when the thought police start patrolling the board in favor of one point of view

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree. He was intimidated by two very physical players. I’m saddened by this fact.

Let me ask you, how often have we seen Ayton actually drive to the hoop? His athleticism should dictate that he would excel at it, but I’m not sure we’ve seen him exhibit this skill consistently.

The Suns needed to give Ayton some easy entrance passes or some pick and roll situations where he rolls to the basket to get him going. This might have helped build his confidence.

If Ayton needed to see how it's done against bigger competition he needs to look no further than TJ Warren.

You're right, with a step or two from around the free throw line area he could easily dunk the ball.

 

[Cheesebeef]

it's opinion that we all write
and nauseam works both ways
especially when the thought police start patrolling the board in favor of one point of view

if that's directed at me, it's off base considering I share 1sun's POV. I just don't need to repeat it 20 times a day. He's surpassed BC's "we need a big man!" mantra which is saying a ton considering how obnoxious that became.

 

[sdscard4]

Fire Wilks! Aww crap wrong team

 

[WildBB]

if that's directed at me, it's off base considering I share 1sun's POV. I just don't need to repeat it 20 times a day. He's surpassed BC's "we need a big man!" mantra which is saying a ton considering how obnoxious that became.

Do you think Okobo will be the answer? I mean we're not making the playoffs this year again even with a starting point traded over, imo. Getting some more tenacity, muscle and rebounding seem to me was the more obvious need this team lacks, and should be addressed now. We thought it was in the draft....but alas...

 

[1tinsoldier]

if that's directed at me, it's off base considering I share 1sun's POV. I just don't need to repeat it 20 times a day. He's surpassed BC's "we need a big man!" mantra which is saying a ton considering how obnoxious that became.

no. i really don't remember who said what from day to day
the only time i thought an opinion was being repeated in a troll-like fashion is when someone kept pushing that we trade for Lonzo Ball
otherwise, every new game i read the reviews and process what is relevant
if the problems are the same, i expect to see the same kind of remarks
this is a public forum so i assume there are plenty of readers who do not read every post and are not exposed to the repetition
2 days ago if you asked me what 1sun's opinion on Igor is i wouldn't have a clue
ask me in another 2 days and i'll probably forget (well, maybe not. i'll remember the comparison to 1sun and 1tin)

someone "ignored" me. i struggle to remember who. it doesn't matter

 

[Cheesebeef]

Do you think Okobo will be the answer? I mean we're not making the playoffs this year again even with a starting point traded over, imo. Getting some more tenacity, muscle and rebounding seem to me was the more obvious need this team lacks, and should be addressed now. We thought it was in the draft....but alas...

I have no clue if Okobo's the answer but this is yet another season to try and develop young talent so he might as well get his run while watch this team in misery.

 

[Superbone]

Ayton has to own this matchup against a 30 year large but immobile center.

That he did not. Worst game of his rookie year thus far.

 

[Errntknght]

Do you think Okobo will be the answer? I mean we're not making the playoffs this year again even with a starting point traded over, imo. Getting some more tenacity, muscle and rebounding seem to me was the more obvious need this team lacks, and should be addressed now. We thought it was in the draft....but alas...

The odds are against Okobo being the answer, at least not in the near term. In any case the answer at PG is by no means the whole answer for the team - as you said, tenacity and muscle are greatly needed. At least the team is playing harder now. Holmes was a good step in the right direction but we need more and Harrell would have been a great pickup for us... much better than Ariza, for instance. Of course, on a one year deal it wouldn't make a great difference.

I'm in the camp of reducing Ariza's playing time, and his play was a surprise. It shouldn't have been because when I look over his whole career his offensive numbers have been dwindling toward what we are seeing - he's almost exactly on his career average numbers across the board. He seems to have fallen off on defense more than on offense but I haven't dug up his numbers for D, scant as they are.

Ariza's offensive numbers are very close to average among all SF's so he's not dragging the team down there. The guy who is dragging us down on offense, is Josh Jackson. Eliminate his offensive stats and the rest of the the main 9 contributors is actually close to the league average. His killer stat is turnovers and his shooting percentages are low.

 

[95pro]

The odds are against Okobo being the answer, at least not in the near term. In any case the answer at PG is by no means the whole answer for the team - as you said, tenacity and muscle are greatly needed. At least the team is playing harder now. Holmes was a good step in the right direction but we need more and Harrell would have been a great pickup for us... much better than Ariza, for instance. Of course, on a one year deal it wouldn't make a great difference.

I'm in the camp of reducing Ariza's playing time, and his play was a surprise. It shouldn't have been because when I look over his whole career his offensive numbers have been dwindling toward what we are seeing - he's almost exactly on his career average numbers across the board. He seems to have fallen off on defense more than on offense but I haven't dug up his numbers for D, scant as they are.

Ariza's offensive numbers are very close to average among all SF's so he's not dragging the team down there. The guy who is dragging us down on offense, is Josh Jackson. Eliminate his offensive stats and the rest of the the main 9 contributors is actually close to the league average. His killer stat is turnovers and his shooting percentages are low.

Okobo has very little chance to be THE answer, but at this point we just need to develop him as much as we can right now. It's what we are stuck with.

Ariza probably has the most minutes played. We can't accept close to average from a guy starting and playing the most minutes per game. To say he's not dragging us down solely due to his average offensive numbers is quite the opposite, he needs to be above average in offense and defense given his minutes per game and the fact that he starts as well.

JJ, we can't give up on him, we know what he might be capable of. I'm hoping this is more of sophomore slump and maybe it's taking him a little longer to fight through the dynamics of the suns franchise right now.

 

[1Sun]

Okobo has very little chance to be THE answer, but at this point we just need to develop him as much as we can right now. It's what we are stuck with.

Ariza probably has the most minutes played. We can't accept close to average from a guy starting and playing the most minutes per game. To say he's not dragging us down solely due to his average offensive numbers is quite the opposite, he needs to be above average in offense and defense given his minutes per game and the fact that he starts as well.

JJ, we can't give up on him, we know what he might be capable of. I'm hoping this is more of sophomore slump and maybe it's taking him a little longer to fight through the dynamics of the suns franchise right now.

Average??? Ariza's numbers are among the worst in the NBA in terms of offensive and defensive efficiency and advanced metrics (such as plus-minus).

 

[95pro]

Average??? Ariza's numbers are among the worst in the NBA in terms of offensive and defensive efficiency and advanced metrics (such as plus-minus).

just going off of Errntknght's post I quoted.

 

[taz02]

Its hard to argue that 1sun isn't repetitive but there is only so much to talk about.

I know before the season he completely hounded the PG situation to death, however he was spot on with his assessment.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Its hard to argue that 1sun isn't repetitive but there is only so much to talk about.

I know before the season he completely hounded the PG situation to death, however he was spot on with his assessment.

Blocked. Still plenty to read here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Its hard to argue that 1sun isn't repetitive but there is only so much to talk about.

I know before the season he completely hounded the PG situation to death, however he was spot on with his assessment.

He was? He said if we didn't add a good point guard we'd be lucky to win 10 games and he also said that we should trade away our best players because our current point guards would ruin Ayton, Booker and the other young guys, setting them back at least 5 years. Almost to a person, we agreed with him that our point guard situation sucked, it was the hyperbole that followed that caused the problems.

 

[leclerc]

Ayton, Bridges and Ayton have combined for 9 points.

Ayton, Bridges and Ariza? We should feed Ayton more so he gets close to 20 ppg. Maybe not the easiest game for him tonight, but going forward we need another guy who can average 18+ besides Booker and Warren. I guess Bridges, Jackson, Crawford could get 10-20 from time to time, but not consistently. So let's see more of Ayton in set plays and him being active this week! Not only from the sloppy lobs from Booker please. Let's see some fire, DA!

 

[leclerc]

On a positive note, Jackson has been playing pretty well the last few games.

I agree. Jackson is getting better. Bridges is getting more time. Warren is consistently great. Let's hope Okobo gets consistent minutes. I love what I've seen of his game so far. He can hit it from three and in mid range, his passing is sound, his defense is not matador olé by a long shot. We're much more competitive lately than a couple of weeks ago, so there are positives here if you are willing to see it.

 

[leclerc]

Starting 5

1- Okobo
2- Booker
3- Warren
4- Ariza
5- Ayton

Finishing 5

1- Booker
2- Bridges
3- Jackson/Crawford
4- Warren
5- Holmes

I removed Ariza from finishing 5. He's longer than say Jackson, but I'm not sure he's better. Also I'd like to see more of Crawford in crunch time. He's a killer.

 

[leclerc]

What about Holmes and Ayton playing together. Move Ariza to the bench and put Holmes out there with Ayton.

Couldn't hurt to try, but I would rather have Ayton play closer to the hole and let Okobo run the point, so he will have someone who is capable of throwing an entry pass, you know, get the angle right, put it on his off hand, if he's able to shield off his defender. We knew this stuff when we played in my city some 20-30 years ago, so I guess even though this is not something that is well known in the states, it's been practised in France, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm all for giving Holmes some minutes at PF - alongside Ayton. It might be good to have them start together, as it might help Ayton when he's facing a tough match up. In reality he's not overmatched but he seems to think he is. About five minutes of PT for Holmes then sub him out so he's ready to relieve Ayton at the quarter mark.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton, Bridges and Ariza? We should feed Ayton more so he gets close to 20 ppg. Maybe not the easiest game for him tonight, but going forward we need another guy who can average 18+ besides Booker and Warren. I guess Bridges, Jackson, Crawford could get 10-20 from time to time, but not consistently. So let's see more of Ayton in set plays and him being active this week! Not only from the sloppy lobs from Booker please. Let's see some fire, DA!

Yes, I meant Ariza there. The Suns play Ayton too far away from the basket for my liking. I'd like for the Suns get him the ball closer to the basket.

 

[WildBB]

I removed Ariza from finishing 5. He's longer than say Jackson, but I'm not sure he's better. Also I'd like to see more of Crawford in crunch time. He's a killer.

Agree about Crawford. But he also can't guard. Jackson time is coming with better consistency. But another reason for concern is that he doesn't look much stronger then last season either.