2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[AzStevenCal]

does anyone know an easy way to look up the Suns' record last year when Canaan played?

Basketball Reference. He played in 20 games for us, started once, and we went 9 - 11 during that stretch.

 

[SirStefan32]

Basketball Reference. He played in 20 games for us, started once, and we went 9 - 11 during that stretch.

Well, if the Suns don't sign anyone else, I want Isaiah to start.

 

[elindholm]

does anyone know an easy way to look up the Suns' record last year when Canaan played?

9-11

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/canaais01/gamelog/2018

Edit: I overlooked Poop Head's correction but I would assume that he is right, not having time to double-check it myself.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, if the Suns don't sign anyone else, I want Isaiah to start.

Yeah, if he's all the way back it's a no-brainer IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

does anyone know an easy way to look up the Suns' record last year when Canaan played?

BasketballReference.com lists that, the Suns were 8-11 with Canaan for 20 games, 1 of them a start. View a player's game log though and it'll tell you right above the box with their stats.

I originally said 9-11 but that was the record for all teams he played for last season, 1 of those was a win with the Rockets though. He only played in 19 games with the Suns.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/canaais01/gamelog/2018

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[BC867]

I want Isaiah to start[/B].

Yeah, if he's all the way back it's a no-brainer IMO.

Stef & Steve, it would be great if Canaan could pick up where he left off before the injury.

But I, too, feel that his playing behind an experienced facilitator would be best for our roster, particularly Ayton, and for Booker not needing to bring up the ball to be involved in assists.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Stef & Steve, it would be great if Canaan could pick up where he left off before the injury.

But I, too, feel that his playing behind an experienced facilitator would be best for our roster, particularly Ayton, and for Booker not needing to bring up the ball to be involved in assists.

I like Canaan as our starting PG based on who we have but he is ideally a backup. The problem is, I don't see anyone available that would solve our problem. Upgrading the backup isn't going to do much for us, we need to find a starter. And if we can't find that starter, I'd much prefer we don't throw away assets for an almost negligible improvement.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Likewise, welcome aboard @1Sun.

I agree the Suns need at least a stop-gap point guard until the Suns develop or trade for one.

question is at what cost?

 

[1Sun]

question is at what cost?

Considering the future of the franchise (i.e., the development of Ayton, Jackson, Bridges and Booker) is at stake, and that any of them becoming disgruntled or regressing could set the franchise back at least 5 years, I would say at any cost other than Ayton, Jackson, Bridges and Booker. I would even consider including Jackson (albeit reluctantly) if it meant getting someone like Lillard or an extended Kemba Walker.

 

[1Sun]

Welcome to the board! Great post, I agree with virtually all of the points you make. The Suns can't afford to play with inexperienced PG's yet again for an entire season. Last year happened partially because Bledsoe asked out. They had all of last season, the draft, and all of free agency to find someone to man that position and all they've done is add some 2nd round fringe NBA talent to the other fringe NBA talent they have as PG's currently. 4 G-Leaguer's don't equal 1 NBA player.

Going into training camp and starting the season without anyone other than Harrison, Canaan, Okobo, and Melton will only point to the incompetence of this front office in how they consistently fail to build a balanced roster. It's bad for the coaches that have been hired and puts them in an uphill battle trying to push players into unfamiliar positions to get the most of the roster as a whole. It's not just the coaches who suffer without a real NBA PG though, it's also the other players on the court when it comes to looking to someone to initiate plays. This is the first time we've lacked a PG but it's not the first time McD has given a rookie head coach a 15 man roster that is missing an NBA level talent at a key position. How he expects them to cover for his mismatched rosters though is the real issue. He's been the constant in the last 3 coaching staff's that have failed here, 4 if you count Triano.

I agree with your premise to a point, Poop Head.

In my opinion, Earl Watson was such an awful head coach that I don't think he would have succeeded even with a roster of the strength of the Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets or Boston Celtics. While his Kumbayah approach might have made for a nice player/coach buffer and player-relationship-builder and glorified cheerleader as an assistant, when it comes to strategic decision-making, both in games and in preparation for games, Watson didn't have anywhere near the intelligence needed even to come close to competing or keeping up with other head coaches in the NBA. (Sadly, I believe that Torey Lovullo is the MLB equivalent of Earl Watson in that respect, which is why I believe he is far better suited to being an MLB bench coach than an MLB manager.) Earl Watson really never had any business being a head coach at any level, let alone the NBA. Where Ryan McDonough lost me as a GM was when he retained Watson as the permanent head coach without much due diligence to try to bring in someone, anyone, more capable of the job. In my opinion, McDonough should have been fired right on the spot for that.

With respect to Jeff Hornacek, as his tenure with the Knicks confirmed after his tenure with the Suns, he is just way too nice and soft to instill any measure of discipline and accountability at the NBA level. He could never get through to the ego of the NBA player, and as a result, he was destined to fail even if there were no holes at any position, unless every single rotation player bought into the team and his system 100%. Highly unlikely with the mentality of millennials. There will always be an ego or two on an NBA team that needs to be kept in check.

Now in terms of Jay Triano, I don't think he is a particularly good coach, but I do believe he wouldn't have been so ineffective, and his teams wouldn't have appeared to be so awful, had he not had the gaping hole at point guard last year.

Most significant, however, where I am very much on your page is that with Igor Kokoskov, making him start without a competent starting level NBA point guard would be setting him up to fail, especially where his offensive system depends on smart decision making, ball movement and synchronicity among players.

As I said in my first post, in order for this season to be anything positive, regardless of record, this team desperately needs a point guard of a better level than what we have on the roster.

 

[JCSunsfan]

question is at what cost?

How is a stop gap pg going to be better than what we have? At least every pg we have plays D and does not dominate the ball offensively.

 

[Mainstreet]

question is at what cost?

For a stopgap PG the maximum I would go is the Bucks pick but I'm not sure I do that.

A 2nd round pick and an an expiring contract might be able to get someone like Beverley or Teo.

 

[1Sun]

How is a stop gap pg going to be better than what we have? At least every pg we have plays D and does not dominate the ball offensively.

Take a good hard look at how dispirited Ayton and Bridges were this summer playing with what are now our top two point guards. We do not want, and this franchise cannot afford, 82 games of that, under any circumstances.

 

[Cheesebeef]

everything you guys are saying is WHY I WANTED MCD FIRED AFTER THE SEASON.

Y'all are talking either sending the last of our only remaining assets out for a freaking band-aid and trusting the GM who put us in such a crappy position to do it. And if he doesn't, then you fire him after the season, bringing in a new GM, with none of the assets we had and sticking him with a coach he didn't pick.

Look... our GM sucks. He has continually put this team in terrible positions. Endorsing him making any more and continue the track record of giving away assets for things that won't move the needle at all will.

And to be honest, I have a REAL hard time seeing so many people are now giving McD just THIS year to prove himself or else. Y'all wanted him to make the biggest decision a team has in picking it's coach and playing with assets. This is a you broke it, you bought it situation. The lack of foresight in keeping a disastrous GM and letting him make huge decisions continues to boggle the mind.

 

[SirStefan32]

Stef & Steve, it would be great if Canaan could pick up where he left off before the injury.

But I, too, feel that his playing behind an experienced facilitator would be best for our roster, particularly Ayton, and for Booker not needing to bring up the ball to be involved in assists.

Oh I don't think anyone really disagrees with you, I certainly do not. I would prefer a 25 year-old John Stockton, but we have to deal with reality that they don't have him on the roster.

 

[Errntknght]

You always stop one level short of the real problem - Sarver. If he fires McD, then he will be the one picking the next GM. I doubt if I'm the only one who trembles at the thought of him taking another stab at it.

 

[BC867]

I like Canaan as our starting PG based on who we have but he is ideally a backup. The problem is, I don't see anyone available that would solve our problem. Upgrading the backup isn't going to do much for us, we need to find a starter. And if we can't find that starter, I'd much prefer we don't throw away assets for an almost negligible improvement.

If there is not a serviceable starting Point Guard available, I guess we have no choice but to go with Canaan. Is there really no one available with starter experience?

Oh I don't think anyone really disagrees with you, I certainly do not. I would prefer a 25 year-old John Stockton, but we have to deal with reality that they don't have him on the roster.

It doesn't have to be a John Stockton. Just a versatile Point Guard with starter experience who can facilitate, pop some 3's and play some D. And cover the need for Booker to play the Point. It shouldn't be a case of all or nothing.

Our hope for building around Booker and Ayton doesn't need a superstar Point Guard. Just a solid role player.

 

[SirStefan32]

If there is not a serviceable starting Point Guard available, I guess we have no choice but to go with Canaan. Is there really no one available with starter experience?



It doesn't have to be a John Stockton. Just a versatile Point Guard with starter experience who can facilitate, pop some 3's and play some D. And cover the need for Booker to play the Point. It shouldn't be a case of all or nothing.

Our hope for building around Booker and Ayton doesn't need a superstar Point Guard. Just a solid role player.

Names?

 

[BC867]

You always stop one level short of the real problem - Sarver. If he fires McD, then he will be the one picking the next GM. I doubt if I'm the only one who trembles at the thought of him taking another stab at it.

No, you're not the only one, which is why I sent letters to the other investors (who make up 70% of the ownership), urging them to consider naming a new Managing General Partner.

Sarver's history is hiring an inexperienced GM without the credentials to stand up to him. One whom he can control. And one who will come cheaply.

Evidently, that real problem (as you say) is . . . a real problem.

 

[elindholm]

Names?

The Suns' bargaining position for a PG would be stronger if they'd held the unprotected MIA pick instead of dumping it for yet another wing. But that would have required patience and foresight, which we know are not in the skill set of this front office.

 

[BC867]

Names?

Oh, Stef, I wish I were that much of a fanatic that I had the answer.

Guys, is it a foregone conclusion that a serviceable, experienced NBA Point Guard is not available? With all due respect, I really find that hard to believe.

Any who fit that description would be better than the "none" we have now. All it takes is one, with Canaan backing him up at this stage of his career.

Even if he does not have a dependable 3-point shot, why does it have to be the Point Guard position to open the floor? As long as he can facilitate and play D.

 

[SirStefan32]

Oh, Stef, I wish I were that much of a fanatic that I had the answer.

Guys, is it a foregone conclusion that a serviceable, experienced NBA Point Guard is not available? With all due respect, I really find that hard to believe.

Any who fit that description would be better than the "none" we have now. All it takes is one, with Canaan backing him up at this stage of his career.

Even if he does not have a dependable 3-point shot, why does it have to be the Point Guard position to open the floor? As long as he can facilitate and play D.

And that's the problem I have with your posts. You complain about something, but offer no specific solution. PGs who can distribute, shoot, and defend don't grow on trees. Few that actually exist are not on the market. Even the better PGs in the league can't do all 3. Lillard, Walker, Dragic can't defend. It's easy to criticize and ask for point guards who can distribute, shoot, and defend, but we live in reality and not in some fantasy where young John Stocktons and Chris Pauls grow on trees.

 

[SirStefan32]

The Suns' bargaining position for a PG would be stronger if they'd held the unprotected MIA pick instead of dumping it for yet another wing. But that would have required patience and foresight, which we know are not in the skill set of this front office.

So, I am not going to agree or disagree completely because we don't know what Bridges is going to look like and we have no idea what the value of Miami 1st pick is. You are right, they would probably be in a better bargaining position, but I doubt it would be significantly better. If I have 20k in the bank, and I want to buy something that costs 50k, crying about 3K I spent on something else doesn't really make any sense. I'd still be 27k short.

 

[1Sun]

Names?

The other day, John Gambadoro mentioned Kris Dunn and Delon Wright as possibilities. Either of those would work for me, as would Dinwiddie, Tyus Jones, George Hill and Ricky Rubio (familiarity with Kokoskov's system), to name a few.

My top target remains Kemba Walker (I think he is an underrated defender, by the way), but I don't think a package of Warren (even with his coming home appeal), one of the rookie point guards and the Milwaukee pick comes close to getting a deal done, and I don't think taking one of their longer term bad contracts in exchange for Chandler's expiring deal moves the needle enough to get a deal done, either. It is here that we really could have used the Miami pick (though I AM a big fan of Mikal Bridges as a prospect).

 

[elindholm]

So, I am not going to agree or disagree completely because we don't know what Bridges is going to look like and we have no idea what the value of Miami 1st pick is. You are right, they would probably be in a better bargaining position, but I doubt it would be significantly better. If I have 20k in the bank, and I want to buy something that costs 50k, crying about 3K I spent on something else doesn't really make any sense. I'd still be 27k short.

Except that we know the perceived value of the pick to be greater than 3K, because the Suns reportedly offered a lot of other sweeteners to PHI and they held out for that pick.