Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[AzStevenCal]

I hope so! Would love to be proven wrong here.

This is going to sound contradictory but I'm not very confident that you will be "proven wrong" so to speak. I have very little faith that we will turn it around this upcoming season. Even if we add the best player in this draft class we're still going to need at least 1 difference making veteran and I'm not sure where we go to find this guy.

 

[sunsfan88]

Except the next hire won't be his fourth. It will be his third. He has made two head coaching mistakes--Hornacek (who everyone thought was a great hire for a year and a half) and Watson (sorry, that one was just bad). Triano is just an interim after the firing of Watson. Now three is not good, but no need to exaggerated to make a point.

Triano was an interim hire. Nothing that you said changes that, there’s is no exaggeration here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Triano was an interim hire. Nothing that you said changes that, there’s is no exaggeration here.

Seriously, I've never before seen or heard of anyone counting an interim hire as the same as an actual coaching hire.? Geez if they do start counting the emergency replacement guy against the GM too, you can expect to see fewer in-season terminations. Which means we'd have likely been stuck with Watson all season. Ouch!

 

[Covert Rain]

For me it depends. If it’s an internal guy that was a placement holder I don’t count it. If it’s someone you brought in from the outside it definitely counts.

 

[sunsfan88]

Seriously, I've never before seen or heard of anyone counting an interim hire as the same as an actual coaching hire.? Geez if they do start counting the emergency replacement guy against the GM too, you can expect to see fewer in-season terminations. Which means we'd have likely been stuck with Watson all season. Ouch!

Well a coach becomes an interim coach with the expectation that he can do a better job than the one they fired and that if he does his job good enough then he perhaps stays on.

It’s a hire. Especially when it’s just 3 games into the season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well a coach becomes an interim coach with the expectation that he can do a better job than the one they fired and that if he does his job good enough then he perhaps stays on.

It’s a hire. Especially when it’s just 3 games into the season.

I don't know if that's true but I don't see the relevance regardless. To me, we didn't hire Triano. We fired Watson and plugged the leak with Jay. AFAIC, if the team doesn't have to fire Triano at the end of the season, he wasn't hired as Head Coach.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't know if that's true but I don't see the relevance regardless. To me, we didn't hire Triano. We fired Watson and plugged the leak with Jay. AFAIC, if the team doesn't have to fire Triano at the end of the season, he wasn't hired as Head Coach.

Agreed. If you want to hold it against McD for not firing Watson during the summer, that holds water. But Triano is not a head coaching "hire", just as when he isn't the head coach in a few months it is not because he was "fired", it's because there has not been a "head coach" since Watson got canned.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't know if that's true but I don't see the relevance regardless. To me, we didn't hire Triano. We fired Watson and plugged the leak with Jay. AFAIC, if the team doesn't have to fire Triano at the end of the season, he wasn't hired as Head Coach.

That’s because all assistant coaches sign a remainder of the season contract to become the interim head coach for remainder of the season. They do this because assistant coaches generally make very little $$ so to be fair to them, they give them a new interim HC contract with increased salary due to the increased responsibility. These are typically 1 year contracts. I learned this from football intially few years ago and then someone on a different forum told me it works the same way in basketball as well.

So yes, they technically don’t have to fire the interim if they don’t want him, his contract simply expires.

But it’s similar if it was a normal headcoach who had an expiring contract as well. For example, if Celtics never re-sign Brad Stevens and his contract runs out, he won’t be technically fired just the same way you said Triano won’t be fired either if he isn’t hired as the next HC.

Think about it this way, if McDonough had went and signed Jeff Van Gundy after firing Watson, would you still not count that as a hire? I doubt you would so you can’t disqualify a hire just because it was from within the team.

 

[Hoop Head]

Well a coach becomes an interim coach with the expectation that he can do a better job than the one they fired and that if he does his job good enough then he perhaps stays on.

It’s a hire. Especially when it’s just 3 games into the season.

It's more of a promotion than a hire. Triano was the most qualified assistant on the coaching staff to fill in while the Suns began their search for a real head coach to take over long term. He wasn't hired from outside, in which case I could understand the debate, but he was promoted because his boss was fired. Triano made it clear when he was named interim head coach that he was only the interim head coach because he had no plans or desire to be a head coach in the NBA. He was only handling things temporarily until the Suns could conduct a real coaching search to replace Watson. He changed his tune later but that shouldn't matter.

When Lindsey Hunter was named head coach a few years back when Gentry was fired, I could see that being viewed as a coaching hire because of circumstances around that move. He was chosen instead of other assistant coaches that held higher positions on the coaching staff than he did. He was not the lead assistant, which Triano was under Watson. The lead assistant or whatever title they carry with their team is who takes over when a coach is fired 9 times out of 10. It's not much of a debate, it's how the coaching hierarchy in the NBA works.

 

[Matt L]

I have to admit, I flip-flopped on this one. At this point, the negatives outweigh the positives. If I were the owner, I would contact Jerry West and ask him for counsel and if he would either be willing to join the front office or recommend someone to join the front office to be in charge of personnel.

 

[Hoop Head]

Jerry West just joined the Clippers front office this season, I doubt he leaves so soon. Since he's in LA, although not with the Lakers, I can't see him choosing to leave for any team other than the Lakers.

 

[Chaplin]

He was HIRED as the lead assistant coach, with the understanding that IF Watson was fired or incapacitated, he would be the guy to take over. That's one of the duties of a lead assistant. So yes, he was "hired" to do a job, and part of that job is taking over as head coach if Watson could not or should not be there.

I actually don't blame McD for making that hire and for making that decision, I just think Triano has done a terrible job.

 

[Matt L]

He was HIRED as the lead assistant coach, with the understanding that IF Watson was fired or incapacitated, he would be the guy to take over. That's one of the duties of a lead assistant. So yes, he was "hired" to do a job, and part of that job is taking over as head coach if Watson could not or should not be there.

I actually don't blame McD for making that hire and for making that decision, I just think Triano has done a terrible job.

I really can't disagree. He "looks" like a coach but the players are either tuning him out or he's in over his head. Either way, we got to hire someone else.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

We can always say McDumbass last real HC hire was Hornacek. So that means your Phx Suns have been floundering under interim HC coaches for the last 2 1/2 seasons. Is Saver just finishing paying off what he owes Horny before he springs for a real HC or is McDummy just that stupid?

 

[Hoop Head]

Triano doomed himself early on by saying he didn't want to be the head coach even though that was his current title, whether that was followed by an interim label or not it doesn't matter. Why were players going to go all out for someone who was only in place for the remainder of the year? When he changed his stance was after the Suns had been blown out by 40+ points. I'm not sure if he was serious or not, about being the coach full time beyond this season, but I think part of why did say that he was interested in remaining the HC was in an effort to get the players listening to him again because they had tuned him out.

The only time players seemed really engaged was after Watson was fired and I don't blame them for that. Triano was a breath of fresh air for them since he coached them to win rather than to go out and have a good time. I think it also helped how Bledsoe asked out at that time because that gave the remaining roster someone else to point blame at and since he was no longer on the roster they were able to go out there and play to win. Of course over time that enthusiasm died out and hearing their head coach talk about how he didn't want that job probably wasn't encouraging to the young players he was trying to teach.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm taking a fresh look at the GM position today for the Suns. I've always been supportive of McDonough but he is out of excuses with me after he cleared out some bad trades in Knight and Chriss. He has had time to grow as a GM and make his fair share of mistakes. There is always a learning curve. However, if the Suns have not shown dramatic signs of turning the corner after this season, the Suns need to look elsewhere for a GM.

It would be disconcerting to me after all these years of rebuilding if the Suns best starters at the PG, SF and PF positions are aging veterans that are obtained in trade this off season. Although I don't think it is likely to happen, the Suns could actually start a PG to be named later, Ariza and Anderson. Looking at it this way, I was hoping they would be further ahead with their development. Some of those youngsters need to start paying dividends.

 

[slinslin]

Triano doomed himself early on by saying he didn't want to be the head coach even though that was his current title, whether that was followed by an interim label or not it doesn't matter. Why were players going to go all out for someone who was only in place for the remainder of the year? When he changed his stance was after the Suns had been blown out by 40+ points. I'm not sure if he was serious or not, about being the coach full time beyond this season, but I think part of why did say that he was interested in remaining the HC was in an effort to get the players listening to him again because they had tuned him out.

The only time players seemed really engaged was after Watson was fired and I don't blame them for that. Triano was a breath of fresh air for them since he coached them to win rather than to go out and have a good time. I think it also helped how Bledsoe asked out at that time because that gave the remaining roster someone else to point blame at and since he was no longer on the roster they were able to go out there and play to win. Of course over time that enthusiasm died out and hearing their head coach talk about how he didn't want that job probably wasn't encouraging to the young players he was trying to teach.

The end result under Triano was worse than it was under Watson. We were dead last, he mismanaged the Chriss situation, we were dead last in offensive rating and defensive rating.

Triano is simply not a good coach, he had a bad track record, he was the head assistant under Watson who apparently did all wrong according to some.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm taking a fresh look at the GM position today for the Suns. I've always been supportive of McDonough but he is out of excuses with me after he cleared out some bad trades in Knight and Chriss. He has had time to grow as a GM and make his fair share of mistakes. There is always a learning curve. However, if the Suns have not shown dramatic signs of turning the corner after this season, the Suns need to look elsewhere for a GM.

It would be disconcerting to me after all these years of rebuilding if the Suns best starters at the PG, SF and PF positions are aging veterans that are obtained in trade this off season. Although I don't think it is likely to happen, the Suns could actually start a PG to be named later, Ariza and Anderson. Looking at it this way, I was hoping they would be further ahead with their development. Some of those youngsters need to start paying dividends.

I feel the same way but also am weary of a replacement for McD. I think James Jones would probably be promoted to the GM role and that would be fine with me. One issue with any GM change is the position that leaves Igor in. With Jones I think he would stand a better chance of being retained while another GM would probably want to insert his own coach. It's a tough position right now and I hope the Suns win to avoid any further drama but I have less faith in that happening after the Knight/Chriss trade than I did before it. It's not so much they were dealt but that we acquired someone like Anderson and if he's playing big minutes for us that points to more problems with McD has built this team. It didn't look great before the trade but the roster at least looked close to complete but if they're looking for a new starting PG and they just added a new starting PF then we're in more trouble than most fans thought before that deal was made. He should have had 4 of our 5 starters locked in already but he didn't, or at least that's how it appears.

 

[Mainstreet]

I feel the same way but also am weary of a replacement for McD. I think James Jones would probably be promoted to the GM role and that would be fine with me. One issue with any GM change is the position that leaves Igor in. With Jones I think he would stand a better chance of being retained while another GM would probably want to insert his own coach. It's a tough position right now and I hope the Suns win to avoid any further drama but I have less faith in that happening after the Knight/Chriss trade than I did before it. It's not so much they were dealt but that we acquired someone like Anderson and if he's playing big minutes for us that points to more problems with McD has built this team. It didn't look great before the trade but the roster at least looked close to complete but if they're looking for a new starting PG and they just added a new starting PF then we're in more trouble than most fans thought before that deal was made. He should have had 4 of our 5 starters locked in already but he didn't, or at least that's how it appears.

I think you are completely right. If the Suns change GMs James Jones is likely the best choice. They would need to maintain stability while pivoting. Igor needs to be given every chance to succeed.

I'm hoping Igor had a big say in the decision to part ways with Knight and Chriss. It would make me feel better if Igor has examined the talent and gives his input on who stays and who leaves. The Suns need some fresh eyes when it comes to evaluating talent. The Suns could be in trouble if they are playing musical chairs at this stage.