moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
I like Aikman but HOF?!? One of the most overrated QB's ever, IMO. Why he is ALWAYS lumped in with the all-time greats is beyond me.
Any QB Will Do
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moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
Seems a bit too simplistic considering LT had Drew Brees and Philip Rivers at QB.
I agree that QB is important and that a team needs to have a good one but I don't agree that you HAVE to draft a QB #1 overall or be destined for failure. In general, I'd rather build a good team around a good QB over having a great QB with little depth or weapons.
Everyone knows that a superstar QB is more valuable than a superstar RB - but this is a silly way to try to prove it.
Seven of the top 14 and 10 of the top 18 career passing leaders, who all played in the Super Bowl era, have 0 Super Bowl wins. (Marino, Rivers, Moon, Tarkenton, Palmer, Testaverde, Bledsoe, Fouts, Ryan, Collins). Four of the QBs with no Super Bowl wins are in the Hall of Fame (and Rivers may go as well).
The ratio is exactly the same for the top career rushing leaders. Seven of the top 14 and 8 of the top 18 helped their teams win NFL Championships (Jim Brown played before the Super Bowl era). Five of the RBs without Super Bowl rings are in the Hall of Fame, and Peterson will go, as well as possibly James.
...dbs
Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Drafting a franchise type QB trumps every position in the draft!
The Browns haven’t had a franchise QB since they came back into the league, that’s 20 years my friends! Let that sink in.
I get that Barkley is a supposed “can’t miss” RB. There’s no such thing. If the Browns identify there’s a franchise QB in this draft, they better select him #1 because there are no assurances they finally get that guy. Hell the Giants could trade the pick or even select the QB they like as well.
If I were the Browns & they want both I personally would pick Barkley #1 & trade up from #4 to #2 & then select you’re guy. The Browns got the ammo to make it happen!
The Browns haven’t had a franchise QB since they came back into the league, that’s 20 years my friends! Let that sink in.
I get that Barkley is a supposed “can’t miss” RB. There’s no such thing. If the Browns identify there’s a franchise QB in this draft, they better select him #1 because there are no assurances they finally get that guy. Hell the Giants could trade the pick or even select the QB they like as well.
If I were the Browns & they want both I personally would pick Barkley #1 & trade up from #4 to #2 & then select you’re guy. The Browns got the ammo to make it happen!
Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
QB always trumps any position if you thinks he’s a franchise guy! No ifs ands or buts!!!
Teams simply don’t win consistently without them & generally don’t win SB’s without them.
GimmedaBall
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Agree. The Cowpie-Jerry Jones effect. Aikman is a QB who was elevated by his surrounding team more so than him at QB elevating the team. Playing on a SB champ 3X will do it for you. TA's individual QB stats are far from extraordinary.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
Vermont Maverick
Registered
Overrated Hugh Jackson is going to outsmart everybody. He’s going to take Matt Barkley thus getting his QB AND Barkley at the same time. Genius.
OP
OP
I understand how Cleveland feels. Do keep in mind that even the best QBs are 50/50 to fail. Top RBs are 80/20 to succeed. In fact Cleveland has gotten near 50/50on their QBs.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Most interesting strategy I have heard for Cleveland is taking a QB at both 1 AND 4 therefore doubling their shot at ensuring a franchise QB. Sounds crazy at first, but again, none of it matters unless you have a top QB.
I still see Cleveland taking Barkley at #1 and a QB at #4. I do not see number 2 and 3 draft positions going both QB. Even if they did go 2 and 3 as QB, at worst Cleveland gets to select from among what is left and in my opinion the difference between the first QB off the board and the third QB is minuscule. I don't see that great a difference among the top 5 that would make me go gaga over one from the other.
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
Maybe that is the combination they wanted all along. If that is true then taking SB number 1 overall is a major coup for them. If they took BM first no guarantee that SB is still there at 4, but if they take SB #1 I think there is a good chance BM will be there. The argument for or against is moot at this point unless you can see Cleveland's board. IMO
I’m not with Chopper on this one that would be a coup for them
Solar7
Go Suns
Not sure if I made the argument in this thread or another, but your QB needs to fit your offense and talent. They need to be mentally "there." And history is against the successive picks at QB in a draft of having success. Their franchise desperately needs to hit on "the guy." They can't keep putting it off and letting another team make the choice for them.
As fans, we may not see a huge difference between the #1 and #4 QB, but as a GM, you need to make that evaluation. It's why you have a job. There is absolutely no question of what you'd rather have as a franchise: an All-Pro RB, or All-Pro QB. QB every time.
Arz101
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This.
Barkley is not even at Adrian Peterson level in comparisons. Cleveland should get a QB and hope Barkely falls to 4.
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Zeno
Ancient
He actually was more productive in college, he had about 800 more yards from scrimmage, averaged more per carry, scored more TDs, had a lot more receptions than Peterson and does not have the durability concerns AP had coming out. Barkley also had better combine numbers across the board and is about 15 pounds heavier. So yes I would say he is beyond Adrian Peterson levels.
Arz101
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ys-the-best-rb-prospect-since-adrian-peterson
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Zeno
Ancient
That doesn't really support that he is not on Adrian Petersons level. Barkley is a better prospect coming out then AP was because he doesn't have the durability problems he had (which is the only reason AP fell to #7 in the draft).
Barkley has to prove it on the field as a pro player but if they were both in the same draft based on college production and workout numbers I have no doubt Barkley would be graded higher.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I have watched Larry Fitzgerald and Adrian Peterson be made worthless by bad QB play. Those are two generational talents whose team's were hardly competitive without top 15 QB play. There is no way you should prioritize a RB or WR without first having a top 15 QB in place.
moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
But by that rationale, the Cardinals should have passed on Fitzgerald. Which, maybe drafting Rivers would have been a better move but what has Rivers ever won without a Fitzgerald to throw to?
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Rivers is more valuable than Fitzgerald is. Sad but true.
moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
Can't say I agree. Rivers has had some great weapons at his disposal and never sniffed a Super Bowl. At least Fitz got there.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Rivers played in a AFCCG on a torn ACL.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
On a much more dysfunctional franchise Rivers has led his team to 106 total wins since 2006, and has only had two seasons below 8-8. Fitzgerald has had 99 total wins and 4 seasons under 8-8.
Also, let's consider that while Rivers is possibly a Hall of Fame QB, Larry will go down as one of the two best WRs in NFL history.
moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
But the argument is that you pass on everyone else and have to take a QB. Larry disproves that. Even without decent QB play for much of his career, he's so good that AZ has been able to compete and win games.
