Suns trade for Elfrid Payton

[Mainstreet]

Isaiah Thomas in his Cavs and Lakers debut looked like a completely different player. Guys that get traded want to prove right out of the gate that their team was wrong for getting rid of them.

This is true although the Suns have Payton's stats and NBA play to examine as well before this season. He looks to be a legitimate PG candidate going forward.

 

[devilalum]

Isaiah Thomas in his Cavs and Lakers debut looked like a completely different player. Guys that get traded want to prove right out of the gate that their team was wrong for getting rid of them.

Would you want a player that didn't do this?

 

[hcsilla]

I wonder if Randle could have been had for a second rounder or future first rounder.

Reportedly the Lakers have got several offers of 2nd rounders for Randle, refused them and demanded a 1st rounder, but haven't got it.

 

[pokerface]

This is true although the Suns have Payton's stats and NBA play to examine as well before this season. He looks to be a legitimate PG candidate going forward.

What is nice is the fact we have a decent number of games left to check out his game. It's like a summer league evaluation...but better.

 

[Raze]

I think you guys sound like a bunch of creepy old dads that don't like their daughter's new boyfriend because he needs a haircut.

He's a kid expressing his individuality. I never really paid any attention to his game before last night. It doesn't look to me like his hairdo effects his play at all. And I don't think his hair looks any stupider than Josh Jackson's. Even Devin Booker's eraser head looks silly to me but I like the individual expression. Reminds me of the 70s when everybody had crazy head and facial hair.

Much better than this.

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It does effect his game. There's actually no way it doesn't.

Two things to think about:

1. His hair extends into his peripheral vision. No matter what he has an unnecessary blind spot. When he's at rest he only loses a small portion off the top of his circle of vision. However, when he's in motion the hair bobs up and down cutting deeper into the circle. Sometimes going over half way.

2. I noticed he compensates by tilting his head back so he can increase his vision. He's doing himself harm by trying to play an elite game this way. It isn't natural to hold your head in that position. He also appears to have a nervous twitch with his neck on D. I would guess the hair has everything to do with that.

Therefore, he's sacrificing his lower peripheral to adjust for the upper. Also, a shot is a very delicate thing. Every centimeter of alteration matters to an elite shooter. Steph is absolutely exceptional at maintaining pure form. For a guy like Elfrid, a rough shooter, he can't afford to have any added obstacles.

A kid who wants to express himself can do whatever he wants. It's a free country, thank the Lord. However, a humble professional who wants to be the very best will sacrifice personal style to increase his game even if it's only fraction of gain. (Ie. swimmers shave their legs).

 

[BC867]

Good Lord, what the hell is it that you actually want? Would it make you feel better if they paid $10M for someone like Payton? ... Some people cannot be happy unless they are complaining about something. You get a decent, young player for nothing, and people still complain. Good Lord!

Stef, my friend, May 31st will be 40 years since I moved to the Valley from New Jersey and left behind their habit of sarcasm.

But I'll make an exception for your accusation . . . Why don't you send that same message to Scott Bordow, who wrote about the same concerns as I?

Below is his article on AzCentral.com. The same article in the Arizona Republic has the headline, "Could new Suns PG Payton be a rental?"

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...could-impact-elfrid-paytons-future/326596002/

I am certainly not a professional sportswriter. But he is. And he raised the same issue. The one you call not being happy unless I am complaining.

As Bordow, and the rest of us, I hope that Payton is not a rental. He is a tall, distributing, scoring, rebounding, defensive Point Guard who, as of this moment, is (potentially) the second most valuable player on the Suns behind Booker. That's how bad the Suns roster is.

Now let's draft a Center and take the next step . . . into the playoffs. Let's finally overwhelm Sarver's frivolous leadership with substance over (lack of) style.

 

[pokerface]

It does effect his game. There's actually no way it doesn't.

Two things to think about:

1. His hair extends into his peripheral vision. No matter what he has an unnecessary blind spot. When he's at rest he only loses a small portion off the top of his circle of vision. However, when he's in motion the hair bobs up and down cutting deeper into the circle. Sometimes going over half way.

2. I noticed he compensates by tilting his head back so he can increase his vision. He's doing himself harm by trying to play an elite game this way. It isn't natural to hold your head in that position. He also appears to have a nervous twitch with his neck on D. I would guess the hair has everything to do with that.

Therefore, he's sacrificing his lower peripheral to adjust for the upper. Also, a shot is a very delicate thing. Every centimeter of alteration matters to an elite shooter. Steph is absolutely exceptional at maintaining pure form. For a guy like Elfrid, a rough shooter, he can't afford to have any added obstacles.

A kid who wants to express himself can do whatever he wants. It's a free country, thank the Lord. However, a humble professional who wants to be the very best will sacrifice personal style to increase his game even if it's only fraction of gain. (Ie. swimmers shave their legs).

It's common sense that his hair is cutting into his vision. Or like you are saying he has to bend his head a certain way to adjust for it. Bottomline, I don't see how this is acceptable. But apparently it is??

 

[BC867]

Guys, he said he is going to cut it. His close friend, Warren, probably has some input there. We finally have a legitimate Point Guard who has the size and skills to grow into the starter spot.

Don't worry. Be happy.

 

[Raze]

Guys, he said he is going to cut it. His close friend, Warren, probably has some input there. We finally have a legitimate Point Guard who has the size and skills to grow into the starter spot.

Don't worry. Be happy.

Oh I am. I actually love the trade and think he's a great addition to the team. In December (?) I suggested we target him as a FA. I thought he'd be a good compliment to Book and come cheap on the signing. Hopefully, he can fall in love with this team and resign at a reasonable price.

 

[JS22]

*and also adds to the schizophrenia I feel about McD ... he gets so much wrong but if Payton and bender pan out, on top of warren and Booker he’s done a fair bit outstandingly right also.


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Even Jackson has been coming around. I don't love the moves McD has made, but at this point I'm along for the ride. I'm just impressed Sarver has let it go on for this long. I would be disappointed if McD didn't get at least another 2-3 seasons (after this one) to see how it plays out.

 

[Errntknght]

I expect him(Payton) to improve the team a great deal, especially if he goes all out on defense - that could be contagious. If Canaan recovers completely we'd have a solid backup, which you need if your starting PG plays hard on both ends of the floor. Ulis could possibly return to the form he showed in his first year (I say that because I don't understand what happened with him this year) - if he doesn't I wouldn't keep him around after next year. Josh Gray isn't totally out of the running, IMO - I like that he's not afraid to shoot but he has to convert at good percentage to compete.

I think there's a good chance we pay a high price for Payton in the upcoming draft. Two wins more or less can move a team several slots because seven teams are bunched so close. I'll be surprised if Payton doesn't give us at least two more wins - not that it's likely to be totally obvious whether he did or didn't. I think the team is poised to make a run - relatively speaking. For us .500 ball for a few weeks is very hot streak. Booker is about to return and Bender and Jackson are showing improvement and now we have an established PG to orchestrate the O. An uptick in defense is all thats needed - and we've seen it a few games so they can do it.

 

[GatorAZ]

I expect him(Payton) to improve the team a great deal, especially if he goes all out on defense - that could be contagious. If Canaan recovers completely we'd have a solid backup, which you need if your starting PG plays hard on both ends of the floor. Ulis could possibly return to the form he showed in his first year (I say that because I don't understand what happened with him this year) - if he doesn't I wouldn't keep him around after next year. Josh Gray isn't totally out of the running, IMO - I like that he's not afraid to shoot but he has to convert at good percentage to compete.

I think there's a good chance we pay a high price for Payton in the upcoming draft. Two wins more or less can move a team several slots because seven teams are bunched so close. I'll be surprised if Payton doesn't give us at least two more wins - not that it's likely to be totally obvious whether he did or didn't. I think the team is poised to make a run - relatively speaking. For us .500 ball for a few weeks is very hot streak. Booker is about to return and Bender and Jackson are showing improvement and now we have an established PG to orchestrate the O. An uptick in defense is all thats needed - and we've seen it a few games so they can do it.

He'll definitely cost us 4-5 spots in the tankathon but had the Suns not made the move they would've been so non-competitive to finish the year that it might've cost McD his job. I think the fact that this is a strong draft 1-7 and Payton is young/RFA it kinda evens out losing ground and McD knows he's safe.

 

[SweetD]

It does effect his game. There's actually no way it doesn't.

Two things to think about:

1. His hair extends into his peripheral vision. No matter what he has an unnecessary blind spot. When he's at rest he only loses a small portion off the top of his circle of vision. However, when he's in motion the hair bobs up and down cutting deeper into the circle. Sometimes going over half way.

2. I noticed he compensates by tilting his head back so he can increase his vision. He's doing himself harm by trying to play an elite game this way. It isn't natural to hold your head in that position. He also appears to have a nervous twitch with his neck on D. I would guess the hair has everything to do with that.

Therefore, he's sacrificing his lower peripheral to adjust for the upper. Also, a shot is a very delicate thing. Every centimeter of alteration matters to an elite shooter. Steph is absolutely exceptional at maintaining pure form. For a guy like Elfrid, a rough shooter, he can't afford to have any added obstacles.

A kid who wants to express himself can do whatever he wants. It's a free country, thank the Lord. However, a humble professional who wants to be the very best will sacrifice personal style to increase his game even if it's only fraction of gain. (Ie. swimmers shave their legs).

It does also make him keep his head up.

 

[95pro]

Payton’s hair makes it harder for the defense to read his eyes.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I expect him(Payton) to improve the team a great deal, especially if he goes all out on defense - that could be contagious. If Canaan recovers completely we'd have a solid backup, which you need if your starting PG plays hard on both ends of the floor. Ulis could possibly return to the form he showed in his first year (I say that because I don't understand what happened with him this year) - if he doesn't I wouldn't keep him around after next year. Josh Gray isn't totally out of the running, IMO - I like that he's not afraid to shoot but he has to convert at good percentage to compete.

I think there's a good chance we pay a high price for Payton in the upcoming draft. Two wins more or less can move a team several slots because seven teams are bunched so close. I'll be surprised if Payton doesn't give us at least two more wins - not that it's likely to be totally obvious whether he did or didn't. I think the team is poised to make a run - relatively speaking. For us .500 ball for a few weeks is very hot streak. Booker is about to return and Bender and Jackson are showing improvement and now we have an established PG to orchestrate the O. An uptick in defense is all thats needed - and we've seen it a few games so they can do it.

Dont forget Brandon Knight.

 

[leclerc]

I'm trying the best I can to forget him. Stop bringing his name up!




OT: His shot will often be off by a fraction of a hair. Hope he cuts it soon!

 

[Mainstreet]

Payton’s hair makes it harder for the defense to read his eyes.

Best pro hair argument yet!

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking back on the Payton trade it's difficult to believe the Suns only traded a second round pick for him. His stats, although they can be scrutinized for weaknesses, were those of a starter especially considering his age.

The market was really weak on PGs. Perhaps it is more understandable looking back, why Bledsoe only fetched a first round pick. Kyrie Irving was the exception. IT's value may primarily be that of an expiring contract.

 

[Hoop Head]

Looking at a few Magic forums the consensus on them trading Payton was primarily because they didn't intend on resigning him this offseason. They definitely weren't in a position to scare other teams away from signing him to an offer sheet because they'd match because they have no financial flexibility going forward so they were looking at losing him regardless of him being a RFA. Since they couldn't pay for him long term they got rid of him for whatever return they could get.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking at a few Magic forums the consensus on them trading Payton was primarily because they didn't intend on resigning him this offseason. They definitely weren't in a position to scare other teams away from signing him to an offer sheet because they'd match because they have no financial flexibility going forward so they were looking at losing him regardless of him being a RFA. Since they couldn't pay for him long term they got rid of him for whatever return they could get.

This may be how the Magic viewed it, but other teams failed to pull the trigger on acquiring Payton.

Even if Payton should not be kept by the Suns long term, it's hard to see he was not worth a first round pick such as the Bucks pick.

Credit McDonough for acquiring him with only a second round pick. He has acquired players such as Daniels and Payton for close to nothing.

 

[Hoop Head]

The only 1st round picks that were traded during this season have been Milwaukee's in the Bledsoe deal, the Blake Griffin trade sending the Piston's pick to the Clippers, and Cleveland's pick to the Lakers in the IT & Channing Frye for Clarkson & Nance trade.

Considering the value of those picks it's no surprise Payton couldn't fetch a 1st. That's what the Grizzlies were trying to get for Tyreke Evans and he's averaging 20ppg this year.

The only other 1st dealt this year, including this past offseason, was the Raptors sending their pick to Brooklyn for taking the contract off DeMarre Carroll and the Clippers traded away their first in the offseason to bring in Gallinari.

If you look at the trades that involved picks they were teams looking to acquire something they lost. The Lakers didn't own their 1st this year and the Cav's had 2, the extra was from the Kyrie trade. The Clippers were able to replace the one they sent out by trading Blake Griffin. Brooklyn didn't have their own pick this year so they took the one from Toronto.

The Suns with potentially 3 1st round picks are in really good shape for this draft, even if they only have 2. The Miami pick might hold more value than it normally would considering how the 1st's for this draft were regarded this year and what it took for teams to part with theirs.

 

[hcsilla]

The only 1st round picks that were traded during this season have been Milwaukee's in the Bledsoe deal, the Blake Griffin trade sending the Piston's pick to the Clippers, and Cleveland's pick to the Lakers in the IT & Channing Frye for Clarkson & Nance trade.

Plus NOP's for Mirotic.

 

[Raze]

I expect him(Payton) to improve the team a great deal, especially if he goes all out on defense - that could be contagious. If Canaan recovers completely we'd have a solid backup, which you need if your starting PG plays hard on both ends of the floor. Ulis could possibly return to the form he showed in his first year (I say that because I don't understand what happened with him this year) - if he doesn't I wouldn't keep him around after next year. Josh Gray isn't totally out of the running, IMO - I like that he's not afraid to shoot but he has to convert at good percentage to compete.

I think there's a good chance we pay a high price for Payton in the upcoming draft. Two wins more or less can move a team several slots because seven teams are bunched so close. I'll be surprised if Payton doesn't give us at least two more wins - not that it's likely to be totally obvious whether he did or didn't. I think the team is poised to make a run - relatively speaking. For us .500 ball for a few weeks is very hot streak. Booker is about to return and Bender and Jackson are showing improvement and now we have an established PG to orchestrate the O. An uptick in defense is all thats needed - and we've seen it a few games so they can do it.

This is very true. It makes it even more likely to effect us because Orlando would presumably take a step back as we take a step forward. Right now we're tied with wins.

 

[Mainstreet]

The only 1st round picks that were traded during this season have been Milwaukee's in the Bledsoe deal, the Blake Griffin trade sending the Piston's pick to the Clippers, and Cleveland's pick to the Lakers in the IT & Channing Frye for Clarkson & Nance trade.

Considering the value of those picks it's no surprise Payton couldn't fetch a 1st. That's what the Grizzlies were trying to get for Tyreke Evans and he's averaging 20ppg this year.

The only other 1st dealt this year, including this past offseason, was the Raptors sending their pick to Brooklyn for taking the contract off DeMarre Carroll and the Clippers traded away their first in the offseason to bring in Gallinari.

If you look at the trades that involved picks they were teams looking to acquire something they lost. The Lakers didn't own their 1st this year and the Cav's had 2, the extra was from the Kyrie trade. The Clippers were able to replace the one they sent out by trading Blake Griffin. Brooklyn didn't have their own pick this year so they took the one from Toronto.

The Suns with potentially 3 1st round picks are in really good shape for this draft, even if they only have 2. The Miami pick might hold more value than it normally would considering how the 1st's for this draft were regarded this year and what it took for teams to part with theirs.

Talking about Avery Bradley, Marc Stein said even second round picks were hard to come by.

"They wanted a first rounder for him and just couldn't get it," said Marc Stein on the Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast.

Stein also talked about how second round picks were difficult commodities to acquire at this trade deadline, which made first round picks nearly impossible to acquire.

The Suns should be in good shape this offseason.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/248956/Clippers-Sought-First-Round-Pick-For-Avery-Bradley

 

[Mainstreet]

Even future first round picks should hold good value.