Monday Morning 12/4/17 Questions and Thoughts

[Cards_Campos]

It's obvious that BA wanted no part of a coach who would threaten his power. He is my way or no way. And he thinks he is smarter than football. That he is a genius coach and his system works if you just run it right. It's almost senile a little if he thinks Amos is a good coach. We lack fundamentals on punt returns....kickoff returns....punting....kickoffs....THe and defending FGs. You could argue that we are inept in all of it. I bet we have a penalty on punt returns over 60% of the time!!! We miss fgs and When We dont just miss them. They get it blocked Not once but twice. If we had a solid coach who adjusted based on game instead of running the same thing over and over. We ran for 110 yards on like 11 carried to the Left side .....so the entire 2nd half he runs to the right....thinking he is brilliant. It's crazy. We have talent ...he just doesn't put them in good situations. He ia better than Whiz but saying that ...Whiz had awful QBs. We have good to very serviceable. He needs gone....we need a good young coach.

 

[Chopper0080]

I can't blame Keim on Garopollo. I heard(think it was Schefter, he does a spot on local radio here every week) that no one knew JG was made available and NE reached out to SF directly to make the deal.

Not quite accurate. John Lynch reached out to New England and was told Garopollo was not available, then Lynch asked if Brady was available if they were keeping Jimmy. Belichick almost didn't respond. That is what started the conversation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think Arians has to go whether it's by firing or forcing him to retire.

Bring in a strong offensive mind with a proven coaching staff. Shurmur?

Draft Baker Mayfield and make offensive linemen a priority in free agency. Restock the WR corps. Bring in at least one more coverman. Ask Mathieu to take a paycut or he will be released. Draft a young defensive lineman.

The Cardinals have a good amount of draft picks this year. I think the team also needs to seriously consider moving on from Keim. His track record on the OL is abysmal. Same can be said with CB as well. I don't know if I trust him anymore.

 

[Southpaw]

I think Arians has to go whether it's by firing or forcing him to retire.

Bring in a strong offensive mind with a proven coaching staff. Shurmur?

Draft Baker Mayfield and make offensive linemen a priority in free agency. Restock the WR corps. Bring in at least one more coverman. Ask Mathieu to take a paycut or he will be released. Draft a young defensive lineman.

The Cardinals have a good amount of draft picks this year. I think the team also needs to seriously consider moving on from Keim. His track record on the OL is abysmal. Same can be said with CB as well. I don't know if I trust him anymore.

Does Shurmur have a support staff?

Cards were high on Mahones but didn't pull off the draft day deal. I have read they are in on Josh Allen. But that is with this current braintrust.

8 qbs could be taken by the end of day 1. Sure would be nice if Gabbert could take a quantum leap by year's end and take away the qb priority pick.

 

[Chopper0080]

You don't get better releasing good players who you gave bad contracts. I agree that Mathieu is not going to live up to the salary Keim gave him, but they are using him more out of the slot which is helping him make more of an impact. Watching yesterday, our defense is better with him, and he almost has to be part of the plan moving forward. Maybe they can get him to lower from 14 to 10...I don't know. But, unless we move on from Keim or Bettcher, I don't believe you will see many players get cut. Count on a defense of Nkemdiche, Peters, Pierre, Jones, Golden, Reddick, Bucannon, Peterson, CB, Bethea, Mathieu, and Baker next year. Hell, they may offer Tramon Williams another one yer deal.

Keim isn't going to blow up the cap he just fixed by adding a ton of dead money. Veldheer, Iupati, Bucannon OR Mathieu may get cut, but I doubt more than one does. Also, keep in mind that Bucannon is a Keim 1st rounder (and he wants to show he is picking the right guys), Mathieu is a fan favorite (if we are losing yo uhave to have guys fans cheer for), and Veldheer and Iupati are considered the reasons we are struggling with their injuries.

I predict more of the same.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Does Shurmur have a support staff?

Cards were high on Mahones but didn't pull off the draft day deal. I have read they are in on Josh Allen. But that is with this current braintrust.

8 qbs could be taken by the end of day 1. Sure would be nice if Gabbert could take a quantum leap by year's end and take away the qb priority pick.

Fortunately the Cardinals will have more draft picks than usual. That means more ammunition to trade up if they like a QB that much. Baker Mayfield. Budda Baker. Maybe we just need to go get any Baker out there.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You don't get better releasing good players who you gave bad contracts. I agree that Mathieu is not going to live up to the salary Keim gave him, but they are using him more out of the slot which is helping him make more of an impact. Watching yesterday, our defense is better with him, and he almost has to be part of the plan moving forward. Maybe they can get him to lower from 14 to 10...I don't know. But, unless we move on from Keim or Bettcher, I don't believe you will see many players get cut. Count on a defense of Nkemdiche, Peters, Pierre, Jones, Golden, Reddick, Bucannon, Peterson, CB, Bethea, Mathieu, and Baker next year. Hell, they may offer Tramon Williams another one yer deal.

Keim isn't going to blow up the cap he just fixed by adding a ton of dead money. Veldheer, Iupati, Bucannon OR Mathieu may get cut, but I doubt more than one does. Also, keep in mind that Bucannon is a Keim 1st rounder (and he wants to show he is picking the right guys), Mathieu is a fan favorite (if we are losing yo uhave to have guys fans cheer for), and Veldheer and Iupati are considered the reasons we are struggling with their injuries.

I predict more of the same.

That defense you listed isn't too bad. The special teams is the biggest problem with this team. We need a legit PR/KR. Logan may have been that guy, but the fact that we only had one guy is a problem.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch - if Badger doesn't agree to a pay-cut, then we release him... I think the more interesting question is - will the Badger be led to believe by his agent that he can get top dollar or considerably more money elsewhere?

82CG---

I wouldn't stick a fork in the Honey Badger just yet. Put him on Seattle in that environment and defensive philosophy and he will be balling big-time again. There are no coaches in Arizona or teammates other than Budda Baker who can inspire Honey Badger to play once again like his hair is on fire. It's just no longer in the culture here, especially when BA&SK don't re-sign the best tacklers---not one of the top three tacklers from last years team (CC, TJ, DJS) were re-signed. Not one.

 

[82CardsGrad]

82CG---

I wouldn't stick a fork in the Honey Badger just yet. Put him on Seattle in that environment and defensive philosophy and he will be balling big-time again. There are no coaches in Arizona or teammates other than Budda Baker who can inspire Honey Badger to play once again like his hair is on fire. It's just no longer in the culture here, especially when BA&SK don't re-sign the best tacklers---not one of the top three tacklers from last years team (CC, TJ, DJS) were re-signed. Not one.

I'm not putting a fork in Badger at all Mitch. However, I think it's safe to say that he is presently overpaid and that the Cards need to cut his pay... and if he isn't willing to take the cut, then release him.

 

[cardncubfan]

Not quite accurate. John Lynch reached out to New England and was told Garopollo was not available, then Lynch asked if Brady was available if they were keeping Jimmy. Belichick almost didn't respond. That is what started the conversation.

I believe this happened during the off season & they were turned down. When the trade deadline came up the Pats must have changed their mind. What I read was the Pats called San Fran & asked if they still wanted JG for a 2nd.

 

[cardncubfan]

Chris Myers said, "Steve Keim tried to bring in Sean McVay before the Rams got to him." I actually rewinded the feed to confirm what i thought Myers said.

Yes, Gabbert struggled mightily in the 1st and 4th quarters. It was ugly. The FOX announcers were praising Gabbert for his play in the 2nd and 3rd quarters and there were some positives to dwell on a little bit, but not perhaps to the extent of which they were going.

What i don't get is---down 13 with 6 minutes left---backed up because of another meek KO return by B. Golden---why does BA have GB taking snaps from center when it's clearly time for a hurry-up offense out of the shotgun?

BA did the same thing behind in the 4th Q at Indy with Carson Palmer and do you remember that he fumbled the snap too that turned out to be a miracle recovery.

I am with you about trading up---my top 3 are Darnold, Jackson and Mayfield---any one of those three would be exciting. I acknowledge Rosen's arm talent but i don't see him as a leader (e.g. Jay Cutler).

I hope you are right about BA retiring. By his current demeanor he sounds like it.

Who is GB?

 

[Mitch]

Who is GB?

BG (typo, my bad).

 

[Mitch]

I'm not putting a fork in Badger at all Mitch. However, I think it's safe to say that he is presently overpaid and that the Cards need to cut his pay... and if he isn't willing to take the cut, then release him.

Gotcha. I worry about him thriving somewhere else, though. But we can't have it both ways.

This is another reason why I want a coaching change now. Get the current player re-energized & re-enthused---and in HB's case, perhaps willing to compromise on restructuring his contract. if we ever hoist a Lombardi, I want HB sipping out of it.

 

[Southpaw]

You don't get better releasing good players who you gave bad contracts.

Hmmm? Bill Belicheck does exactly this or at least he avoids giving bad contracts. i.e. Chandler Jones. I'll go with the BB m o.

 

[oaken1]

Keim needs to be proactive...
dont make BA fire his coach buddies... Keim needs to walk in their offices and take their key cards...done deal...
if BA dont like it he can bitch,..and he can walk if he chooses... but if he walks the team aint on the hook for his salary next year.

with Badger... explain reality to him...contract was based on expectations and he isnt meeting said expectations..he needs to take a serious cut..make the offer... if he refuses...cut him.

the team as a whole needs to understand the most basic philosophy in football.... perform or you are gone.

set nkemdiche down and show him the $80mil contracts the guys with his level of talent are signing in the nfl... then show him the $900k a year contract he is earning with his current performance...next year we have to decide rather or not to pick up his expensive fifth year option so somebody needs to try and turn the lights on for him now...or maybe its year after next...either way dudes play barely merits a roster spot right now.

 

[oaken1]

Gotcha. I worry about him thriving somewhere else, though. But we can't have it both ways.

This is another reason why I want a coaching change now. Get the current player re-energized & re-enthused---and in HB's case, perhaps willing to compromise on restructuring his contract. if we ever hoist a Lombardi, I want HB sipping out of it.

we only need to worry about badger thriving HERE... and if he aint thriving here he needs to go... no point in guaranteeing him nearly 20 million more... we cant help it if he starts playing better elsewhere...hey, if it turns a light on for him good for him...I am sure the Saints will be happy to have him

 

[daves]

I dont know man. After watching SF highlights of Gabbert I think BA put the chains on him with making him into a pocket QB which he naturally isnt. The dude can scramble and throw on the run accurately. If anything, I think the Cardinals coaches have ruined what he does best and that is improvise on the run. He def looked hesitant to leave the pocket IMO.

Heh, it's funny to read the complaints that Gabbert leaves the pocket too quickly, and now this. I think he's just a pretty mediocre QB behind a pretty poor line with pretty poor WRs except for Fitz. Oh well.

...dbs

 

[daves]

Keim needs to be proactive...
dont make BA fire his coach buddies... Keim needs to walk in their offices and take their key cards...done deal...
if BA dont like it he can bitch,..and he can walk if he chooses... but if he walks the team aint on the hook for his salary next year.

That's not necessarily true, if Keim has it in his contract that he has final say over hiring and firing of his assistants, as i suspect he does, though i don't know for sure.
...dbs

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Heh, it's funny to read the complaints that Gabbert leaves the pocket too quickly, and now this. I think he's just a pretty mediocre QB behind a pretty poor line with pretty poor WRs except for Fitz. Oh well.

...dbs

Your probably right. Im going withhold judgement on Gabbs as a QB going forward until I see a full season of work as a Cardinal. Hopefully we'll have more ups than downs?

 

[oaken1]

Your probably right. Im going withhold judgement on Gabbs as a QB going forward until I see a full season of work as a Cardinal. Hopefully we'll have more ups than downs?

it gets complicated...lol.... Gabs history gives you something to look at.... but the fact that it took Palmer about 7-8 games to really get a grip on this offense gives you something to think about too.
its easy to look at some players and profess that "bonehead" is innate ...
but then one looks at what Denver did with Jake Plummer....

.
regardless...it is in this teams best interest to trade up and get the guy they LOVE at QB in the draft...why?? because they could both work out....in which case we trade one,...or he walks and gets a fat contract in FA and we get a pick for him anyway.
sometimes its just in the cards to double down... now we just need to see if its in the Cardinals to do so.

 

[pmacLean]

A little perspective... Palmer came in and we went 10 wins, 11 wins and 13 wins in successive seasons.
In 2013, Palmer was the annointed starter and got ALL the snaps in OTAs and Training camp and practices. That cannot be said for Gabbert (yes, he was somewhat erratic SUnday, pipe down).

So here are the numbers on Palmers first 3 games as a Cardinal and Gabberts first 3 games as a Cardinal (with arguably, far fewer tools in the toolbox, due to injuries).

They both had 1 Win and 2 Losses.
.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS
Palmer....66....114...57.6....762....6.6.......3.....4....9
Gabbert...62....104...59.6....719....6.9.......6.....5....9

Awful quick on the 'he's a bust' trigger around here.

 

[Mitch]

A little perspective... Palmer came in and we went 10 wins, 11 wins and 13 wins in successive seasons.
In 2013, Palmer was the annointed starter and got ALL the snaps in OTAs and Training camp and practices. That cannot be said for Gabbert (yes, he was somewhat erratic SUnday, pipe down).

So here are the numbers on Palmers first 3 games as a Cardinal and Gabberts first 3 games as a Cardinal (with arguably, far fewer tools in the toolbox, due to injuries).

They both had 1 Win and 2 Losses.
.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS
Palmer....66....114...57.6....762....6.6.......3.....4....9
Gabbert...62....104...59.6....719....6.9.......6.....5....9

Awful quick on the 'he's a bust' trigger around here.

Plus, if you recall, Kurt Warner was throwing picks left and right his first year in Arizona...a number of them in the red zone. Practically everyone thought he was washed up. It takes time for any QB to fit into a new system and to develop chemistry with the WRs, TEs and RBs.

One major plus for Gabbert has been his chemistry with Larry Fitzgerald. Gabbert was 10/10 throwing to Fitz versus the Rams.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't think we're quite at the "blow up the coaches and front office" stage.

But I do think the prevailng mindset should be "Stuff is broken/We need to be proactive toward identifying the weakspots and choosing the best options for fixing them.

Some problems may require new coaches. Others might involve trades, free agent signings, draft strategies or part of the above. Some might involve "outside the box" remedies that might involve medical, rehab and strength/conditioning approaches and/or staff.

To be successful, this approach will take big picture skills, organizational discipline, open mindedness, the guts to make big moves where necessary and the ego-strength to stick to one's guns when applicable - not a fail-safe strategy (because nothing is in the NFL) but, IMHO, having the best odds for success.

All of which is to - say: "If BA is felt to be our best available HC option in 2018, keep him., but if you feel a new regime will definitely win more games, pull the trigger.

My gut says: "Keep the current HC and front office. Replace Goodwin, Amos and our WR coordinator. Commit to a mistake-free ST & an 8-deep across OL. Look to cherrypick a dominant WR and a can't-miss QBOF (if and where available)....and go from there.

 

[Paso Fino]

The Bears traded up and with the second pick got Trubisky. People in Chicago are whining some about him now. Its not so easy to get a QBOF that way if you do not have a good supporting cast.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Mayfield please!!!