Dare I say the "T" word . . . ?

[pokerface]

There is a lot of truth in what you say. Losing tends to produce more losing. Perpetual losing is not the way to solve a problem. Good management is more likely to solve the problem by doing things the right way. It's hard for the Suns to recruit a top free agent because of their losing culture. The Suns used to be one of the most winning teams in the NBA and they got their without perpetual tanking.

Yeah well no one is telling the players to lose. And management isn't playing the games. They changed the coach so now it is what it is.

 

[JS22]

So what is your plan? Trade our youth for vets and get a couple playoff series and have to rebuild all over again? Sorry but I'm more excited about landing a top pick than that junk.

McD has accumulated God-knows how many assets. So, yes, I would absolutely flip some of those assets plus a young player or two for an established difference maker. The Suns are going to have to try and add legitimate pieces via trades because they have greatly damaged their reputation. The only way a FA will sign here is if the Suns grossly overpay. (Throwing the max guys like Deandre Jordan or, more realistically, Aaron Gordon.)

Constantly, and purposely, tanking builds a losing culture. It creates situations like what we just experienced with Bledsoe. What did the organization expect? They benched their best player - during his best season - to try and move up a few spots to draft his replacement. Then they badmouthed him on his way out. Come on.

I love high draft picks as much as anyone else. But what I would like to see is the Suns try and build a real team around Booker. If they lose, they lose. But no more pulling crap like they did with Bledsoe and Chandler last season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah well no one is telling the players to lose. And management isn't playing the games. They changed the coach so now it is what it is.

People who believe persistent losing is the way to solve a problem... is the problem.

 

[pokerface]

McD has accumulated God-knows how many assets. So, yes, I would absolutely flip some of those assets plus a young player or two for an established difference maker. The Suns are going to have to try and add legitimate pieces via trades because they have greatly damaged their reputation. The only way a FA will sign here is if the Suns grossly overpay. (Throwing the max guys like Deandre Jordan or, more realistically, Aaron Gordon.)

Constantly, and purposely, tanking builds a losing culture. It creates situations like what we just experienced with Bledsoe. What did the organization expect? They benched their best player - during his best season - to try and move up a few spots to draft his replacement. Then they badmouthed him on his way out. Come on.

I love high draft picks as much as anyone else. But what I would like to see is the Suns try and build a real team around Booker. If they lose, they lose. But no more pulling crap like they did with Bledsoe and Chandler last season.

They should have just traded Chandler and Bledsoe last season then there would be no "crap"...and it still would have tanked us.

I don't care if the suns deal in this next offseason. We need another good draft first.

 

[pokerface]

People who believe persistent losing is the way to solve a problem... is the problem.

Our talent has been coming from the draft. Until something better comes along that's the reality we have to deal with...unless you are up for another Brandon Knight fiasco

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People thought adding another top 5 pick would improve them last season and we see how that is working out. We've drafted high for the last few years. At what point are we realistically going to see improvements because those have been suggested the last 2 drafts for sure.

Actually we focused on the top THREE picks (but we were lucky to have Jackson, whom most of us thought to be a top 3 player, fall to us).

But the truth is young players take time to develop. And today’s players are REALLY young. Last year bender was the youngest player in the league and lost a lot of time to injury. Chriss was a late comer to basketball and late riser in terms of talent. Booker was a one and done. Although we’ve been bad for 7 years, we are only beginning year 3 of the youth movement. Even Minnesota had to trade for a stud like butler to eventually start winning and they’ve got TWO NUMBER ONE PICKS on their roster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Constantly, and purposely, tanking builds a losing culture. It creates situations like what we just experienced with Bledsoe. What did the organization expect? They benched their best player - during his best season - to try and move up a few spots to draft his replacement. Then they badmouthed him on his way out. Come on.
.

“Constantly?” They’ve deliberately tanked ONE YEAR. They haven’t tanked yet this year. The didn’t tank the year before. They were, and are, just bad.

The badmouthing I agree with. No good comes of being a classless organization.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People who believe persistent losing is the way to solve a problem... is the problem.

Right. Because poker and I have ANY impact on the suns.

 

[3rdside]

http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/21339847/zach-lowe-phoenix-suns-eric-bledsoe-devin-booker-nba


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[pokerface]

Right. Because poker and I have ANY impact on the suns.

But what if we did??

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is a lot of truth in what you say. Losing tends to produce more losing. Perpetual losing is not the way to solve a problem. Good management is more likely to solve the problem by doing things the right way. It's hard for the Suns to recruit a top free agent because of their losing culture. The Suns used to be one of the most winning teams in the NBA and they got there without perpetual tanking.

Yep. We have become the Clippers of the 80s and 90s. Always in the top of the lottery and never able to improve. They were like the JV team for the rest of the league. It’s worse now because the players in the draft are more babies than ever-one year removed from high school and a crap shoot for the most part.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/21339847/zach-lowe-phoenix-suns-eric-bledsoe-devin-booker-nba


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Great, unbiased, article. And it seems to dispel any concerns that Booker is already clamoring for a trade or that anyone’s development is being harmed. Seems like just getting rid of Watson is altering the latter.

 

[pokerface]

Yep. We have become the Clippers of the 80s and 90s. Always in the top of the lottery and never able to improve. They were like the JV team for the rest of the league. It’s worse now because the players in the draft are more babies than ever-one year removed from high school and a crap shoot for the most part.

Where would the suns be without the players we drafted?

 

[Hoop Head]

http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/21339847/zach-lowe-phoenix-suns-eric-bledsoe-devin-booker-nba


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That's a really good read that I think all of the posters here should check out. It talks about the future of this team with the players on the roster now and where they're headed individually a bit more than as a team. Primarily focuses on Bender, Chriss, and Booker but mentions Warren, Jackson, and Ulis and briefly touches on the Watson/Triano coaching change.

 

[pokerface]

Yep. We have become the Clippers of the 80s and 90s. Always in the top of the lottery and never able to improve. They were like the JV team for the rest of the league. It’s worse now because the players in the draft are more babies than ever-one year removed from high school and a crap shoot for the most part.

Why wasn't Philly mentioned? Anti tankers like to bring up Philly...but they are 6-4 right now and probably will finish the season with a winning record.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Only one more year I promise.

I'll sleep better tonight

 

[Mainstreet]

Yep. We have become the Clippers of the 80s and 90s. Always in the top of the lottery and never able to improve. They were like the JV team for the rest of the league. It’s worse now because the players in the draft are more babies than ever-one year removed from high school and a crap shoot for the most part.

The 80s and 90s Clippers are a good comparison.

 

[Mainstreet]

Our talent has been coming from the draft. Until something better comes along that's the reality we have to deal with...unless you are up for another Brandon Knight fiasco

I do not believe trading for Knight should define future trades. The Suns have not been setting the world on fire with the draft especially picks in the top ten. Building a team properly requires a combination approach of signing free agents, trades and the draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

Right. Because poker and I have ANY impact on the suns.

I do worry about losing emanations coming from Pokerface and you effecting the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

Where would the suns be without the players we drafted?

Maybe further along in the rebuild process. This game can be played all day long.

 

[Mainstreet]

But what if we did??

Do you really want to go there?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I do not believe trading for Knight should define future trades. The Suns have not been setting the world on fire with the draft especially picks in the top ten. Building a team properly requires a combination approach of signing free agents, trades and the draft.

Yes. Exactly this. And you cannot allow an emphasis on the draft to keep you from doing the other things.

 

[pokerface]

Yes. Exactly this. And you cannot allow an emphasis on the draft to keep you from doing the other things.

Umm...I'm not sure what better options the suns have this season besides going after a big man in the draft.

 

[Raindog]

Umm...I'm not sure what better options the suns have this season besides going after a big man in the draft.

Exactly. The people advocating for "a combination of trades and free agent signings"... exactly what trades or free agent signings do you think the Suns could realistically make that would actually improve the team?

I always see pie-in-the-sky dreamers mentioning us eventually having enough cap space to sign two max free agents... as if somehow the likes of Lebron and Westbrook would ever in a million years sign here... or even guys like Paul George and Jimmy Butler would. You know who we would realistically end up using those max slots on? The likes of Brook Lopez and Khris Middleton, someone in that tier. The kind of guys who make you at best first round playoff fodder, even when teamed up with Booker.

As for trades, it's the same issue - we aren't trading for any top line players either. First of all, none of those players would accept a trade here even at gunpoint. And secondly, I keep hearing the same comical proposals of sending a package of the future first picks we have accumulated plus Bender and Chriss and whatever other dispensable prospects we currently own to the Knicks for Porzingis, or NO for Davis, etc... as if those teams would just give away their young studs for our castoffs and draft picks. It's completely delusional.

The plain fact is the only way the Suns are ever going to measurably improve to being an elite level franchise again is to get exceedingly lucky in the draft. And the best way to do that is to either continue to get very high picks in good drafts, or hit it out of the park on a number of lower picks. One way or the other depends on having and using good draft picks, and unfortunately you have to lose to get those good draft picks.

 

[BC867]

I do worry about losing emanations coming from Pokerface and you effecting the Suns.

I challenged Pokerface's post that we should tank "for the next couple of seasons", but never saw a response. So now his plan is three years in a row?

And that is not going to piss off Devin Booker? The Tank pissed off Bledsoe and his potential is nowhere near DBook's.

The Suns have Devin locked up? Yeah, until he tweets from the hairdresser's. (I didn't use a smiley face because it's not a joke.)