Durant to the Warriors

[chickenhead]

What I keep going back to when thinking about Durant to GSW is this: What problem does Durant solve for the team? GSW won 73-games without Durant, primarily by shooting the lights out of the gym. The only weakness GSW had last season was that it didn't have an abundance of tough guys, and when the few tough guys went down (Green with the suspension and Bogut with the knee), it was kicked to the ground by a tougher, more physical Cleveland team.

Durant is the antithesis of physical. He's another finesse player who is a great scorer, just like Klay and Curry. Who's going to guard the interior?

I get the move as you can't go wrong with having as many All-Star players on the roster as possible, but this move benefits Durant far more than it does GSW.

On The Ringer NBA Show Chris Ryan said Steph to the Hornets--mark it down. He wasn't suggesting that GS was bringing on KD as insurance; more that brining on KD made Curry's departure more likely. But you never know, in a couple years KD could be re-signing with GS and Curry and even Klay could be elsewhere.

 

[Russ Smith]

This will be the last time I try to address your ridiculous apples to oranges comparisons. Even if you assume UA or Kentucky is being underhanded or unethical or whatever in how they recruit kids I don't think anyone would suggest they're taking the easy way out. They would say things about their morals or being low character human beings not that they're weak-willed which is all we're saying about KD.

KD like I said earlier is the guy who ditches his buddies to play with a bunch of strangers during open court because they're better. He's the kid who's Mommy and Daddy forcibly transfer him to a better Little League team so he doesn't have to be so sad and occasionally have to deal with losing. I just really don't have respect for him as a competitor after this. Doubt he cares but it's the truth and countless of his peers likely feel same way I do.

And also isn't there scheduled to be a lockout this next offseason? The new CBA is going to nuke this super team so fast that I doubt they get more than a 2-3 year run and that's only if there is a 2017-2018 season to be played.

It's the easy way out. We need better players lets just lower our standards so we can get them.

The irony is if you've actually followed Durant's career he's done this the whole way through. 3 different prepschools playing with super teams(he was at Oak Hill with Michael Beasley one year) trying to get his grades up so he could qualify for college, AAU program was a super team.

When he gets to the NBA he spends 9 years with one team, far longer than LeBron or Shaq did. And again it's not like OKC had lost to the Warriors several years in a row, they'd played them exactly once. He also lost to Dallas, to San Antonio and I think Memphis so was he allowed to go to any of those teams?

Comparing NBA to rec league basketball is silly, they have nothing in common.

 

[Russ Smith]

What I keep going back to when thinking about Durant to GSW is this: What problem does Durant solve for the team? GSW won 73-games without Durant, primarily by shooting the lights out of the gym. The only weakness GSW had last season was that it didn't have an abundance of tough guys, and when the few tough guys went down (Green with the suspension and Bogut with the knee), it was kicked to the ground by a tougher, more physical Cleveland team.

Durant is the antithesis of physical. He's another finesse player who is a great scorer, just like Klay and Curry. Who's going to guard the interior?

I get the move as you can't go wrong with having as many All-Star players on the roster as possible, but this move benefits Durant far more than it does GSW.

I tend to agree with one caveat. The reason the Warriors lost is in the last 3 games Cleveland went after Steph and Klay and dared the other 3 to beat them and only Green stepped up(in game 7). Barnes missed so many open shots it was scary. Barnes is now replaced with Durant, you can't defend them the same way now because there's 4 guys not 3.

He also makes them longer and bigger since he's bigger than Barnes, but he's not a tough player.

 

[Russ Smith]

On The Ringer NBA Show Chris Ryan said Steph to the Hornets--mark it down. He wasn't suggesting that GS was bringing on KD as insurance; more that brining on KD made Curry's departure more likely. But you never know, in a couple years KD could be re-signing with GS and Curry and even Klay could be elsewhere.

Actually wouldn't stun me at some point it's his home and it's where his dad is. Steph seems to like the Bay area right now but it's his current home not his home.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You really think there will be a lockout? I know there's been talk of it but it stands to reason that ESPN and TNT have an escape built into their deal if the games aren't played. At this point I'm quite certain that ESPN would thank their lucky stars if they could find a way out of this TV deal. Given all the big dollar contracts coming out this season and next season, it's hard to believe that the players or the owners could be so shortsighted as to take that risk. Guess we'll see.

There's almost for sure going to be a lockout. Owners in every market aren't happy they have to pay mediocre players obscene salaries and small market owners aren't happy with this KD move. Adam Silver probably isn't pleased with the lack of parity as it was a driving factor behind last lockout. And for the players they still feel ripped off over last CBA revenue split and the stars feel massively underpaid in this market. Plus Chinese basketball has opened up significantly so the mid-tier guys can go make money there during a lockout while the stars will always have their endorsement $. It's going to be a mess.

I don't know how that affects KD and Steph being unrestricted FA's after this lockout but if rules are put in place (for example unlimited individual player salaries with a fairly hard cap) to prevent super teams like the 2011 lockout put in place then one of them will likely not be a Warrior when the league re-opens. The only reason this Warriors team with KD exists is because of the salary cap spike. If the new CBA rolls that back or puts in other rules like I just mentioned the Warriors won't be a 4 headed monster for very long.

 

[Russ Smith]

There's almost for sure going to be a lockout. Owners in every market aren't happy they have to pay mediocre players obscene salaries and small market owners aren't happy with this KD move. Adam Silver probably isn't pleased with the lack of parity as it was a driving factor behind last lockout. And for the players they still feel ripped off over last CBA revenue split and the stars feel massively underpaid in this market. Plus Chinese basketball has opened up significantly so the mid-tier guys can go make money there during a lockout while the stars will always have their endorsement $. It's going to be a mess.

I don't know how that affects KD and Steph being unrestricted FA's after this lockout but if rules are put in place (for example unlimited individual player salaries with a fairly hard cap) to prevent super teams like the 2011 lockout put in place then one of them will likely not be a Warrior when the league re-opens. The only reason this Warriors team with KD exists is because of the salary cap spike. If the new CBA rolls that back or puts in other rules like I just mentioned the Warriors won't be a 4 headed monster for very long.

It certainly could lead to a lockout but it's not guaranteed. Why would the owners care about paying out obscene salaries when the new tv contract is roughly 3 times what the old one was? They got about 900 million a year in tv revenue in the old deal, they will get about 2.6 billion on this one. That doesn't mean the cap is 3 times as high but the extra 24 million isn't close to the amount of extra tv money the owners get to spend.

The reason for a quite possible lockout is the players not the owners believe it or not. In the last one the players share went from 57 to 50 percent. The players have been complaining ever since then they want a higher %, even with the insane salary jump this year and next, they're going to want more than 50 percent. The way the CBA is structured, a % of the tv money is guaranteed to the owners, that is even in the event of a lockout they get to keep money to pay expenses, the players salaries are NOT guaranteed in a lockout so if there's a lockout the players don't get paid but the owners do. So the owners, who are already in most cases filthy rich, can afford to hold out longer in a lockout than the players can.

It's certainly possible they have a lockout but one of the things I suspect the owners are counting on is public opinion, after 2 years of watching Mozgov and Dellavadova get unreal salaries the fans aren't going to feel much sympathy when the players union says we want 52% not 50. The Warriors situation is they already extended Green 5 years 85 million I think he'll be in year 2 of that next season. Steph's deal has to be done but they get the 2nd year bump in the salary cap to do that. Assuming Durant does what he should he'll opt out to sign a new deal so the Warriors could get iffy then having to sign both Curry and Durant to big deals at the same time, but by then you could see someone like Iguodala move out to clear more cap room if they need it. It won't be easy but they can fit both guys if the cap goes up as much as expected unless one or both guys is extremely demanding in their salary. Steph is playing for 12 million right now his contract should more than double. IIRC Klay's deal expires the year after Curry's so that's where it gets really dicey as they'd be doing another deal with their 3rd star player in 2 years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, in the last agreement the league's big win was reducing the percentage of basketball related income that goes directly to players salaries and that's really the only reason there might be a lockout. Sure, there are other issues but that's the one the Players Association had an issue with. But with all this money available, I'm not sure they will have the rank and file support for a lockout that they envisioned when they first hired Michelle Roberts.

I doubt the NBA will agree to increase the players share of BRI but if ESPN was even remotely smart, they protected themselves heavily in case of any kind of work stoppage. If it allows them to exit their deal, I'm positive they will jump at it or at least renegotiate the terms. Both sides will risk killing the golden goose here if they do something that jeopardizes their deal.

 

[Russ Smith]

If nothing else this is perfect evidence of why players and ex players should never open their mouth about another player doing something. Because it's almost guaranteed someone will dig and find out something you said or did a few years earlier that makes you look bad now.

Barkley has been all over tv this morning on ESPN saying how disappointed he is in Durant, how it's not competitive and how he'd have never done it himself. And within minutes people dug up a quote from Barkley going to Houston where he said he was fed up with the Suns and threatened to retire if they didn't trade him. he then gave them a list of teams he would accept a trade to, all of which were teams he considered to be contenders. He said he was tired of being stuck on a team without a chance at a title so he agreed to go to Houston for one last run as they had Hakeem and Drexler. While there he agreed to take less money one season so they could sign Pippen. They were going to pay him 12 million the next year to make up for it so he did it. Then Drexler retired so the 4 some didn't happen but they did get Pippen. The next year Barkley said I got my contract and it said 8 million not 12, I asked them what happened to my other 4 million and they said we decided to keep it.

He said I went there because I wanted to win a ring, we didn't win a ring and I didn't get paid what they promised so I was mad, didn't keep in shape and got fat.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If nothing else this is perfect evidence of why players and ex players should never open their mouth about another player doing something. Because it's almost guaranteed someone will dig and find out something you said or did a few years earlier that makes you look bad now.

Barkley has been all over tv this morning on ESPN saying how disappointed he is in Durant, how it's not competitive and how he'd have never done it himself. And within minutes people dug up a quote from Barkley going to Houston where he said he was fed up with the Suns and threatened to retire if they didn't trade him. he then gave them a list of teams he would accept a trade to, all of which were teams he considered to be contenders. He said he was tired of being stuck on a team without a chance at a title so he agreed to go to Houston for one last run as they had Hakeem and Drexler. While there he agreed to take less money one season so they could sign Pippen. They were going to pay him 12 million the next year to make up for it so he did it. Then Drexler retired so the 4 some didn't happen but they did get Pippen. The next year Barkley said I got my contract and it said 8 million not 12, I asked them what happened to my other 4 million and they said we decided to keep it.

He said I went there because I wanted to win a ring, we didn't win a ring and I didn't get paid what they promised so I was mad, didn't keep in shape and got fat.

Barkley was at the end of his career, playing for a team that just won 41 games and was fading fast, not close to an MVP anymore, and was going to a Rockets team that was a fading, old, 48 win second round swept playoff team. Durant is right in the middle of his prime and a year in year out MVP candidate going to one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league that has gone to back to back Finals. There's no comparison between the two... as usual.

And when Barkley DID go there, there wasn't an outcry of OMG he went to the Rockets because everyone expected him to go to the Lakers or Celtics... which is still one of the weirdest/most baseless theories I've ever heard as to why KD is being criticized for gravy training this early in his career.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It certainly could lead to a lockout but it's not guaranteed. Why would the owners care about paying out obscene salaries when the new tv contract is roughly 3 times what the old one was? They got about 900 million a year in tv revenue in the old deal, they will get about 2.6 billion on this one. That doesn't mean the cap is 3 times as high but the extra 24 million isn't close to the amount of extra tv money the owners get to spend.

The reason for a quite possible lockout is the players not the owners believe it or not. In the last one the players share went from 57 to 50 percent. The players have been complaining ever since then they want a higher %, even with the insane salary jump this year and next, they're going to want more than 50 percent. The way the CBA is structured, a % of the tv money is guaranteed to the owners, that is even in the event of a lockout they get to keep money to pay expenses, the players salaries are NOT guaranteed in a lockout so if there's a lockout the players don't get paid but the owners do. So the owners, who are already in most cases filthy rich, can afford to hold out longer in a lockout than the players can.

It's certainly possible they have a lockout but one of the things I suspect the owners are counting on is public opinion, after 2 years of watching Mozgov and Dellavadova get unreal salaries the fans aren't going to feel much sympathy when the players union says we want 52% not 50. The Warriors situation is they already extended Green 5 years 85 million I think he'll be in year 2 of that next season. Steph's deal has to be done but they get the 2nd year bump in the salary cap to do that. Assuming Durant does what he should he'll opt out to sign a new deal so the Warriors could get iffy then having to sign both Curry and Durant to big deals at the same time, but by then you could see someone like Iguodala move out to clear more cap room if they need it. It won't be easy but they can fit both guys if the cap goes up as much as expected unless one or both guys is extremely demanding in their salary. Steph is playing for 12 million right now his contract should more than double. IIRC Klay's deal expires the year after Curry's so that's where it gets really dicey as they'd be doing another deal with their 3rd star player in 2 years.

The owners don't want to pay for crap no matter what the dollar amount is. Have you read all the anonymous quotes from NBA executives this week not just in relation to KD but to the system as a whole? When things like this occur the NBA squashes it quickly. See the Decision and lockout one year later that resulted in a CBA over that in short time gutted a Miami roster of everyone with a pulse outside big 3. If Silver and 29 of 30 owners want competitive balance they'll get it.

 

[SO91]

Is it a bitch move because he chose to go to a better team than the one he was on, or because he chose the team that beat him this past year? Or is it both?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is it a bitch move because he chose to go to a better team than the one he was on, or because he chose the team that beat him this past year? Or is it both?

it's the combo platter for me.

 

[SO91]

it's the combo platter for me.

Ok. So picking a winning team, or a team better than the one you were on would be considered a bitch move, right? If I'm wrong and misunderstood, please correct me. So if we had gotten KG a few years back during the SSOL years, we would call it a bitch move as well, right?

I think it would have been with KG, and it is with KD, but honestly the NBA is different now. It won't matter in 10-15 years if he wins a ring or two.

 

[Chaplin]

Ok. So picking a winning team, or a team better than the one you were on would be considered a bitch move, right? If I'm wrong and misunderstood, please correct me. So if we had gotten KG a few years back during the SSOL years, we would call it a bitch move as well, right?

I think it would have been with KG, and it is with KD, but honestly the NBA is different now. It won't matter in 10-15 years if he wins a ring or two.

I happen to think it's KD's way of taking the easy out to get a championship. Why bother working hard if you don't have to?

 

[chickenhead]

If we can forget the alleged failings of Durant’s personal ambition for a moment, it’s interesting to just remember that right after losing the title, Lacob said he was going to be “very aggressive” in the off-season. He certainly delivered on that promise. Rather than comparing the Warriors to the Lakers and Celtics, this is more Yankees-esque. The expanding salary cap has basically turned basketball into baseball for the moment.

The Warriors are in an interesting window. Unlike the Giants/A’s and 49ers/Raiders, they don’t have a direct competitor across the bay. The Kings are close but in a different market (and stink). The closest NHL team is in San Jose. Their somewhat “natural” rivals the Lakers are down as well, and have their own crosstown competition with the Clippers. Southern California overtook Northern California with the postwar military-industrial economy, Silicon Valley has pulled it back. If any team was a sleeping giant, it was the Warriors. Maybe Lacob thinks he can make it into a worldwide franchise like the Yankees, Cowboys, Man U.

Or maybe they’ll win a title or two before imploding, and by then we’ll be stuck with the Lakers again.

 

[PDXChris]

Funny, now both the Cavs (LeBron, Kyrie) and Warriors (KD, Green) have high profile Swoosh athletes. Almost like Under Armor will have to take a back seat now with Steph being the second best player on the team.

Ok, tinfoil hat is off now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok. So picking a winning team, or a team better than the one you were on would be considered a bitch move, right? If I'm wrong and misunderstood, please correct me. So if we had gotten KG a few years back during the SSOL years, we would call it a bitch move as well, right?

I think it would have been with KG, and it is with KD, but honestly the NBA is different now. It won't matter in 10-15 years if he wins a ring or two.

Again... Major differences there. One, KG was playing for an AWFUL franchise that wasn't anywhere close to contention and his prime was just about over while he would have been going to a team that has NEVER won a title and kept falling short, as opposed to KD, still being WELL in his prime, playing for a title contender year in year out and going to a team that already won the title and went to back to back Finals.

 

[Russ Smith]

Barkley was at the end of his career, playing for a team that just won 41 games and was fading fast, not close to an MVP anymore, and was going to a Rockets team that was a fading, old, 48 win second round swept playoff team. Durant is right in the middle of his prime and a year in year out MVP candidate going to one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league that has gone to back to back Finals. There's no comparison between the two... as usual.

And when Barkley DID go there, there wasn't an outcry of OMG he went to the Rockets because everyone expected him to go to the Lakers or Celtics... which is still one of the weirdest/most baseless theories I've ever heard as to why KD is being criticized for gravy training this early in his career.

You seem to not actually read what I write you just knee jerk respond. Barkley literally said on Mike and Mike today that Durant is trying to cheat his way to a title that he didn't earn and that I would never have done that in my career. I wanted to be the man that carried my team to a title not got carried along. and yet in 2012 on live tv in Philadelphia he openly said at that stage of my career I was not a great player anymore, just good, and I wanted to win a title so I demanded a trade to a team that had enough talent that I wouldn't have to carry the team. He said that 4 years ago and now he's saying I would never have done that in my career. Which is why Fox and Yahoo and even ESPN, who had him on this morning, are now calling him out for contradicting his earlier comments.

I'm not the one saying anybody doing this is doing something wrong, you are. I'm just saying people like Barkley need to stop calling out other people because inevitably everyone that does it gets exposed for having done or said something similar themselves.

It's like correcting spelling on the internet, inevitably the person that does it winds up speling werds inkorrectly in their post.

 

[Russ Smith]

The owners don't want to pay for crap no matter what the dollar amount is. Have you read all the anonymous quotes from NBA executives this week not just in relation to KD but to the system as a whole? When things like this occur the NBA squashes it quickly. See the Decision and lockout one year later that resulted in a CBA over that in short time gutted a Miami roster of everyone with a pulse outside big 3. If Silver and 29 of 30 owners want competitive balance they'll get it.

Yes but there's a big difference between being mad enough to leak stuff to the media and being mad enough to have a lockout and kill the golden goose.

 

[Russ Smith]

I happen to think it's KD's way of taking the easy out to get a championship. Why bother working hard if you don't have to?

There might be some of that but I think a large part of it is the realization they weren't keeping OKC's roster together and never were going to because they don't want to pay the luxury tax. Once he knew that(harden) and then Ibaka and then knew Westbrook is leaving, he said ok I want to go.

Then it became a question of where and again this is a guy who literally last year when asked what kind of coach he wanted OKC to replace Brooks with said someone like Steve Kerr. I want a coach who emphasizes movement of the ball on offense. People actually blasted him for saying it because he was in so many isos for Brooks but he said that wasn't by choice, that was the offense we ran, I want to play in a ball movement system. We'll see if he was being honest or not but he said that literally last year.

People are acting like this decision happened because they lost to the Warriors. There's a reason Warriors fans have been saying for months Harrison Barnes went Nick Anderson this year for awhile. AS soon as the rumors broke Durant was interested in the Warriors Barnes went into a funk for awhile because he realized if that happened, he was gone. This was 6 months ago if not longer.

Curry and Thompson have been recruiting Durant for months now. He didn't just decide after game 7 dammit I can't win I'm joining the Warriors.

 

[Russ Smith]

If we can forget the alleged failings of Durant’s personal ambition for a moment, it’s interesting to just remember that right after losing the title, Lacob said he was going to be “very aggressive” in the off-season. He certainly delivered on that promise. Rather than comparing the Warriors to the Lakers and Celtics, this is more Yankees-esque. The expanding salary cap has basically turned basketball into baseball for the moment.

The Warriors are in an interesting window. Unlike the Giants/A’s and 49ers/Raiders, they don’t have a direct competitor across the bay. The Kings are close but in a different market (and stink). The closest NHL team is in San Jose. Their somewhat “natural” rivals the Lakers are down as well, and have their own crosstown competition with the Clippers. Southern California overtook Northern California with the postwar military-industrial economy, Silicon Valley has pulled it back. If any team was a sleeping giant, it was the Warriors. Maybe Lacob thinks he can make it into a worldwide franchise like the Yankees, Cowboys, Man U.

Or maybe they’ll win a title or two before imploding, and by then we’ll be stuck with the Lakers again.

They are huge in Asia and the Philippines. Worldwide no idea, but they have a huge fan base in certain countries.

They are of course building a new arena too so I think Lacob is simply thinking I want to make sure we're really good when that new arena opens up. We sell out every game, we have a waiting list, the chances to raise ticket prices at the new place mean lots more money coming in if we have a good enough team when it opens.

Hell I remember in HS going to half price Tue night games, 3.50 to sit in the 7 buck seats and then move down as far as the ushers would let us move. I can't even get tickets at face value now, unless I know someone who has them. And that's going to get tougher now.

 

[mojorizen7]

Every coach in the NBA will tell you the playoffs are an entirely different animal.

Well, not EVERY coach.

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[Sunburn]

I'm one of the biggest critics of Kevin Durant the player and Kevin Durant the person but I simply don't have a problem with what he did here. It's a "bitch move" because he did what was best for him? Unreal. It's not like he threw a temper tantrum and demanded to be traded. He put in 9 years in a small market and wanted his chance at fame and a ring. Big deal. In 10 years no one, and I mean no one of consequence, will be discounting whatever he accomplishes. We've seen obvious ring grabs before and when it's worked out, that guy gets to retire with Champion on his resume and everything else is just noise.

So you admit he is ring chasing now?

 

[AzStevenCal]

So you admit he is ring chasing now?

I think he wanted out of OKC one way or the other. I think he chose Golden State because it gave him his best opportunity to win a ring. I think he took the 2 year deal with an opt out solely for financial reasons. I've felt this way all along, it's not a change in position. I guess maybe it didn't come across clearly but if you look at my first post about "money grab" (post 44 of this thread), I highlighted and was disagreeing with CR's suggestion that the 2 year deal proved it was ring chasing.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Yes but there's a big difference between being mad enough to leak stuff to the media and being mad enough to have a lockout and kill the golden goose.

If ESPN backed out then the NBA would go out to bid again with the Game 7 ratings in their back pocket and get even more money. Zero owners are worried about about television revenue going away because of a lockout. None of them's primary business is basketball, it's a toy for them not a golden goose.