Cardinals Still Seeking True Identity

[Totally_Red]

Excellent write-up Mitch. Thx for taking the time to put that together.

It did look like the Cardinals switched to running the ball a lot because that's what the SKins were giving them. But you have to find a way to use your pro-bowl wide receivers. We are not going to win games on the road by running the ball period. It ain't gonna happen. Like you mentioned, it was throwing the ball to Q that beat the Niners, not the ground game.

 

[Mitch]

Excellent write-up Mitch. Thx for taking the time to put that together.

It did look like the Cardinals switched to running the ball a lot because that's what the SKins were giving them. But you have to find a way to use your pro-bowl wide receivers. We are not going to win games on the road by running the ball period. It ain't gonna happen. Like you mentioned, it was throwing the ball to Q that beat the Niners, not the ground game.

Yeah, TR...after basically ignoring Q the entire first half for the sake of trying to pound Edge for 3-4 yard gains.

I will say this...if Q stays healthy this year, I'd give him a 3 year $25M extension with $12.5M up front. Think he'd reconsider and take it?

 

[CardLogic]

Good stuff in this thread. It's so much more enjoyable to read game analysis than the typical QB and Gravess threads.

There is some merit to your conclusions Mitch. Perhaps Whis did get a bit too enamored with the way they controlled the game in SF. The Cardinals need to start fast with a wide open offense; with the lead and the opponents defense scrambling, that's the time to pound James over and over and take the game out of the hands of the opponents offense.

Also agree with the poster, was it fuego?, that suggested the conservative game plan was due to being on the road and not wanting to give up the turnovers. Turns out the Cards had two critical turnovers anyway. Might as well have opened 'er up!

 

[Mitch]

Good stuff in this thread. It's so much more enjoyable to read game analysis than the typical QB and Gravess threads.

There is some merit to your conclusions Mitch. Perhaps Whis did get a bit too enamored with the way they controlled the game in SF. The Cardinals need to start fast with a wide open offense; with the lead and the opponents defense scrambling, that's the time to pound James over and over and take the game out of the hands of the opponents offense.

Also agree with the poster, was it fuego?, that suggested the conservative game plan was due to being on the road and not wanting to give up the turnovers. Turns out the Cards had two critical turnovers anyway. Might as well have opened 'er up!

The thing about the 49er game, CL, is that Warner and the team were still just getting used to the fact that he'd won the starting QB job...which is why it was a great time to take some of the pressure off of him as he and the team were focusing on the task at hand.

Let's not forget, however, that the decision to come out at halftime throwing to Boldin turned the momentum totally in the Cards' favor. Other teams fear Q more than any other Cardinal (save perhaps Adrian Wilson...but obviously in a different way)...and if Q's getting his, they start to feel shaky.

But...when the team and Warner had two weeks of realizing that he was once again the starting QB, look at how relaxed and focused he was throwing the ball versus the Dolphins.

It's just too bad Whiz didn't make the moves earlier so the Cards could come into the season where they left off last year on offense. In three games, they've looked like last year's offense down the stretch in just one of the games.

Hopefully this will change.

 

[bg7brd]

It seems to me Whiz and Warner are trying to meet half way. Warner's wide open throw all day style contrasts with Whiz's patient ball control style. I give them both points for giving in a little and as long as Kurt can stay away from turnovers I think Whiz will loosen the leash.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Lots of good points raised, especially the contention that we are trying to be a smash mouth running team when our personnel says we should think otherwise. Many were worried before the year about Kurt starting because of the turnovers last year, but while he's not turning it over (save one tipped int), it seems like he's playing neutered. We've had our best drives when Kurt is throwing it all over the field. We have so many weapons at receiver and one of the more accurate qb's in the game. I really think the team must start using the pass to set up the run.

 

[red desert]

Thanks for the effort, Mitch. It is spot on.

 

[Mitch]

Great stuff Mitch. I think the staff is paranoid about turning over the ball that they are afraid to truly open things up. It looks like it was to our detriment in that last game.

I hope we take the ball next week and go get 7 right quick.

Again - great stuff Mitch.

Thanks, AF. With Warner you have to allow for some turnovers and revel in the fact that when you turn him loose he can light up the scoreboard.

You can't play conservatively in the NFL and win any more. You just can't.

 

[Longcolts]

Lots of good points raised, especially the contention that we are trying to be a smash mouth running team when our personnel says we should think otherwise. Many were worried before the year about Kurt starting because of the turnovers last year, but while he's not turning it over (save one tipped int), it seems like he's playing neutered. We've had our best drives when Kurt is throwing it all over the field. We have so many weapons at receiver and one of the more accurate qb's in the game. I really think the team must start using the pass to set up the run.

If this is the case then Kurt needs to let if fly and let his receivers run under the ball. Twice he's thrown passes to burners and both times they've had to come "back" to the ball. One of those times it has cost him dearly, even if it was a fluke bounce.

 

[Mitch]

Thanks for the effort, Mitch. It is spot on.

Thanks, Red Desert. Does this look somewhat familiar?

Dear Red:

Hope is good thing, Red, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

Your friend,

Andy Dufresne

 

[NeverSayDieFan]

Right on target, Mitch....

It ALWAYS amazes me how we, the fans, can clearly see some things that the coaches miss. I do think Whiz' is going to be the BEST coach we've had since Coryell, but he is still settling into his role. I think we are quick to forget that this is year #2 in this system. There will be "growing pains" for everyone involved. GO CARDS!!

 

[Mitch]

It ALWAYS amazes me how we, the fans, can clearly see some things that the coaches miss. I do think Whiz' is going to be the BEST coach we've had since Coryell, but he is still settling into his role. I think we are quick to forget that this is year #2 in this system. There will be "growing pains" for everyone involved. GO CARDS!!

Well said, NSDF.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Mitch...Great Write up...Better than most Sports Networks...And I agree with 98% of what you say.

I do think the reason why Whis hasn't opened it up to much...Is because of what went on with the QB situation. I hope no one here thinks I am drudging that back up, but I feel Whis made a decision to Start Warner and there are alot of fans that were shocked by that. Also I think management wanted Leinart for a few reasons (For a later debate). But he now must sink or swim with Warner...and he doesn't want to start out going full bomb attack and have him throwing 40 times a game. I think we would be better off, but you have to realize Denny Green brought in Warner to do that. Throw alot and attack the defenses...and we had Q and Fitz, and also BJ. And it really never worked. If Warner struggles then his(Coach Whiz) decision of starting him looks bad. We could score 30 a game, but if you remember last years San Fran game. we put up 30 points by throwing all around the place and yet still lost 36-30 to a fairly bad team.

I do love your spread offense with Q in the back field though. You know what is funny about that. Look at Miami, they came and played us with this fairly vanilla type offense and got smoked. Then 1 week later out of the blue, they had Pennington playing receiver and Ronnie Brown looking like Tim Tebow. The wrinkle in itself shocked New England. I don't think New England is that bad, but when all of a sudden you have Ronnie Brown taking snaps and throwing the ball. The pre game plan kinda went out the window. I think a few years down the road. That style of football will be used more. Not just what they did, but imagine switching game plans drastically from week to week. ALmost impossible to game plan for it.


Great job and go Cards.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Thanks, Red Desert. Does this look somewhat familiar?

Dear Red:

Hope is good thing, Red, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.

Your friend,

Andy Dufresne

Great Great movie. Shawshank Redemption

 

[Mitch]

Mitch...Great Write up...Better than most Sports Networks...And I agree with 98% of what you say.

I do think the reason why Whis hasn't opened it up to much...Is because of what went on with the QB situation. I hope no one here thinks I am drudging that back up, but I feel Whis made a decision to Start Warner and there are alot of fans that were shocked by that. Also I think management wanted Leinart for a few reasons (For a later debate). But he now must sink or swim with Warner...and he doesn't want to start out going full bomb attack and have him throwing 40 times a game. I think we would be better off, but you have to realize Denny Green brought in Warner to do that. Throw alot and attack the defenses...and we had Q and Fitz, and also BJ. And it really never worked. If Warner struggles then his(Coach Whiz) decision of starting him looks bad. We could score 30 a game, but if you remember last years San Fran game. we put up 30 points by throwing all around the place and yet still lost 36-30 to a fairly bad team.

I do love your spread offense with Q in the back field though. You know what is funny about that. Look at Miami, they came and played us with this fairly vanilla type offense and got smoked. Then 1 week later out of the blue, they had Pennington playing receiver and Ronnie Brown looking like Tim Tebow. The wrinkle in itself shocked New England. I don't think New England is that bad, but when all of a sudden you have Ronnie Brown taking snaps and throwing the ball. The pre game plan kinda went out the window. I think a few years down the road. That style of football will be used more. Not just what they did, but imagine switching game plans drastically from week to week. ALmost impossible to game plan for it.


Great job and go Cards.

Great point about the Dolphins, CC. Classic case of maximizing the use of the personnel...and doing something that kept the other team off balance and on its heels. Glad we dodged that bullet, huh!?!

 

[Mitch]

Great Great movie. Shawshank Redemption

Great call, CC.

Red Desert and I go way way back...as many of us do here at ASFN...and it has felt like we've all been imprisoned by years of disappointment and false hopes...

But, maybe...just maybe...we are ready to crawl through our five football fields of the foulest stink there ever was, and like Dusfresne..."come out smelling sweet on the other side."

Repeat after me: Zay-Wah-Tahn-Neyo!

 

[Cards_Campos]

Great point about the Dolphins, CC. Classic case of maximizing the use of the personnel...and doing something that kept the other team off balance and on its heels. Glad we dodged that bullet, huh!?!

Boy you are not lying. That is actually a shocker and may prove we may not be jinxed. LOL....Because in the past...That is the kinda of shtuff that would happen to us....Some team who hasn't won a game since NAM....comes in with a college offense and smokes us. Look at back at our history. First win ever by Tampa Bay...against the Cards...49ers win 2 games all year...both against us....Vinny Testerverde is rubbing his bunyons with Crack cream watching old Everybody Loves Raymond episodes...and 3 days later looks like Joe Montana. Maybe more than anything, Miami not doing that to us a week before .....shows God may have released his full Nelson on us.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Great call, CC.

Red Desert and I go way way back...as many of us do here at ASFN...and it has felt like we've all been imprisoned by years of disappointment and false hopes...

But, maybe...just maybe...we are ready to crawl through our five football fields of the foulest stink there ever was, and like Dusfresne..."come out smelling sweet on the other side."

Repeat after me: Zay-Wah-Tahn-Neyo!

Hey I haven't been here nearly that long, and I know I rub some the wrong way. But I have been a Cardinal fan for 32 years. I have seen the most unbelievable ways to lose games known to man...And I remember when I was 12 years old wearing my Cardinal jacket in Dayton, Ohio...and I was walking down the street...some kids were picking on some other kids and stealing their stuff....they came up to me and said sweet jacket...give it to me...I said"No"...and they tried to take it and one of them said ..."AHH forget it man....it's a Cardinal Jacket" They ran off laughing...and I sat there mad...Because they made fun of the Cardinals

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If this is the case then Kurt needs to let if fly and let his receivers run under the ball. Twice he's thrown passes to burners and both times they've had to come "back" to the ball. One of those times it has cost him dearly, even if it was a fluke bounce.

True, although I would imagine that can also be a rhythm thing as well, although one long pass went for a TD, the other for a tough luck INT. Anytime Fitz or Boldin is 1 on 1 with a corner, Warner should be able to take advantage of the matchup, like he did on our good drives against SF and Miami.

 

[Longcolts]

True, although I would imagine that can also be a rhythm thing as well, although one long pass went for a TD, the other for a tough luck INT. Anytime Fitz or Boldin is 1 on 1 with a corner, Warner should be able to take advantage of the matchup, like he did on our good drives against SF and Miami.

I remember hearing Kurt say that he was afraid of overthrowing DRC in San Fran, and then he under throws Breaston on a fly pattern. He needs to get it in his head that they have the speed to get there. The long pass to Larry wasn't a speed pattern, basically because Fitz doesn't have that kind of speed.

 

[Mitch]

I remember hearing Kurt say that he was afraid of overthrowing DRC in San Fran, and then he under throws Breaston on a fly pattern. He needs to get it in his head that they have the speed to get there. The long pass to Larry wasn't a speed pattern, basically because Fitz doesn't have that kind of speed.

Kurt Warner is all about chemistry...he has plenty of it with Q and Fitz because he's so familiar with them.

How many times did Warner throw to DRC in practice?

He and Breaston have been making so chemistry thus far, but it's not completely unusual for a QB to sometimes underthrow a receiver.

The deep pass he threw to Fitz was picture perfect.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i really think it's pretty simple why we're not throwing 40 times a game - Whiz is limiting the chances of turnovers with a QB who the more you see of him, the more you see turnovers. Wiz comes from the Pittsburg mentality of winning the battle of turnovers which will put you in the best position to win the game, problem is, he doesn't have a defense that generates those turnovers like Pitt did and he doesn't have the absolute smash-mouth running game that he had in Pitt, so he's playing some kind of hybrid to limit mistakes, keep his team in games and win 'em at the end. Basically, I think he's playing the hand he's been dealt until he gets new cards (no pun intended) which would be a QB he can inherently trust with the ball, a DC who knows what he's doing or a running game that can't be stopped and truth be told, he doesn't even need all of them, he just needs one to drop, but I don't believe he thinks he has that... man, this is just a ramble at this point.

you want Warner throwing the ball 40 times a game and we're going to lose more ball games than we win.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The deep pass he threw to Fitz was picture perfect.

no it wasn't. a picture perfect pass lands over the WR's shoulder, rather than making him turn back for the ball. It was a good pass because it didn't slow Fitz down all that much, but it wasn't picture perfect.

 

[Osbern61]

Look at back at our history. First win ever by Tampa Bay...against the Cards...

Actually tampa bay got its first win the week before vs New Orleans. Still a bad moment for the Cards, and I got a severe ribbing at school the next day.

 

[bg7brd]

As much as we all want to complain about the loss, we were only one mental mistake and one bad luck play from winning a tough road game. If we can curb the stupid mental mistakes we'll win more than our fair share of games.