Cardinal Tough Year II

[Mitch]

As most of you know, last year with the draft I was hoping the Cardinals would go out of their way to draft tough leader-type players---and I gathered a great deal of information to put forth a list of players that fit the criteria.

After listening to Rod Graves and Steve Keim in their podcast with Wolf...they made it clear that they way they position their draft board is around BPA...and that what they want are self-starter types...highly motivated leaders with high character, strong work ethics, leadership skills and strong football IQs.

In the podcast three of the players the panel focused on were Patrick Peterson, whom the Cardinals had rated 9.0 (Superstar/Pro Bowl rating) and then Sam Acho and David Carter---two players that fit the "Cardinal" criteria.

With this in mind I went through all the scouting reports at ESPN/Scouts' Inc. to see what players in this draft STRICTLY fit the "Cardinal" criteria---of course based on their assessments of leadership/motor/work ethic/character/toughness/competitiveness/stellar intangibles...and the following players were to ones who received the highest grades in those categories: (with ESPN Top 150 rankings in parenthesis where applicable)

QB:

Andrew Luck, Stanford (1)
Robert Griffin III, Baylor (2)
Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M (8)
Nick Foles, Arizona (39)
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma St. (40)
Nick Cousins, Michigan St. (53)
Kellen Moore, Boise St.

RB:

Trent Richardson, Alabama (4)
Doug Martin, Boise St. (41)
David Wilson, VT (54)
Edwin Baker, Michigan St. (120)
Tauren Poole, Tennessee (129)
Terrence Gananway, Baylor

WR:

Justin Blackmon, Oklahoma St. (7)
Kendall Wright, Baylor (23)
Marvin McNutt, Iowa (74)
Jarius Wright, Arkansas (89_
T.J. Graham, NC St. (98)
Nick Toon, Wisconsin (114)
Muhammed Sanu, Rutgers (117)
T.Y. Hilton, Florida Intl. (123)
Marvin Jones, California (142)
Danny Coale, VT (150)
Gerrell Robinson, ASU
Marquis Maze, Alabama

T:

Matt Kalil, USC (3)
Jonathan Martin, Stanford (26)
Mitchell Schwartz, California (62)
Zebrie Sanders, FSU (72)
Tom Compton, South Dakota (144)
John Cullen, Utah

G:

David DeCastro, Stanford (14)
Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin (43)
Tony Bergstrom, Utah (87)
Adam Gettis, Wake Forest (110)

C:

Peter Konz, Wisconsin (32)
Ben Jones, Georgia (115)
David Molk, Michigan (127)
Michael Brewster, Ohio St.
Moe Petrus, Connecticut

DT:

Michael Brockers, LSU (13)
Kendall Reyes, Connecticut (37)
Brandon Thompson, Clemson (51)
Alameda Ta'amu, Washington (63)
Derek Wolf, Cincinnati (69)
Mike Martin, Michigan (83)
Mike Daniels, Iowa (93)
Josh Chapman, Alabama (126)

DE:

Chandler Jones, Syracuse (22)
Vinny Curry, Marshall (57)
Jared Crick, nebraska (95)
Trevor Guyton, California (106)
Jake Bequette, Arkansas (138)
Bret Roy, Nevada

ILB:

Luke Keuchly, BC (10)
Dont'a Hightower, Alabama (19)
Bobby Wagner, Utah St. (133)
Sean Loiseau, Merrimack (MA)

OLB:

Courtney Upshaw, Alabama (21)
Lavonte David, Nebraska (28)
Shea McLellin, Boise St. (36)
Travis Lewis, Oklahoma
Miles Burris, SD St.
Tahir Whitehead, Temple

CB:

Morris Claiborne, LSU (5)
Stehpon Gilmore, South Carolina (18)
Chase Minnifield, Virginia (77)
Casey Hayward, Vanderbilt (99)
Ron Brooks, LSU (103)
Leonard Johnson, Iowa St. (112)
Ryan Steed, Furman (124)
Omar Bolden, ASU
Donnie Fletcher, BC

S:

Mark Barron, Alabama (11)
Harrison Smith, ND (35)
Brandon Taylor, LSU (68)
Brandon Hardin, Oregon St. (148)
Winston Guy, Kentucky
Eddie Pleasure, Oregon

It might be interesting to see if the players the Cardinals select are listed above.

 

[JeffGollin]

Missing from the list are Ingram and Perry. McClellan shows up as #3 OLB. Interesting.

But then, is Scouts Inc. the end-all for scouting info with respect to character, motor etc? Dunno.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think there is any such thing as Cardinal tough. It's more Cardinal smart.
After the first round I really believe the Cards have now started looking for players who are intelligent more than physical. Sam Acho for instance and Daryl Washington who got the comment from the Cards coaches that they were impressed with his intelligence. Ryan Williams:

But academics trumped football for Johnson (Ryan's Mom), who always stressed the importance of good grades. Williams got the message. He says he graduated from high school with a 3.4 grade-point average

John Skelton went to Fordham.

The only truly physical players on the team, Wilson and Dockett were taken before CKW arrived and have toned things down over the last couple of seasons. The Cards were talking a trade of tough guy Anquan Boldin before the 2009 season and the Cards haven't really wanted tough guy Lutui for two years.

So I think Nate Potter a 2011 Academic All American may be higher on the Cardinals board than many think.

Just like Denny Green wanted to draft guys from big time programs because they were used to winning I think CKW wants to draft guys who are smarter than the average player not tougher.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

With the benefit of advance scouting, Whiz and Grimm attended Cordy Glenn's Pro Day. Can't see how he'd be off their list.

 

[juza76]

What was the criteria of drafting Cody brown . 1 of the big bust i have ever seen in. Cardinals in the last 4 year

 

[WildBB]

I don't see any set formula for judging these players. One scouts self starter is anothers slacker. Some are more obvious than others. Coples is the prime culprit this year.

Watch him just prove everyone wrong.


Kirkpatrick and Jenkins have issues. But a lot to prove. So......

But I know the the Cards prefer higher character athletes. But these are college kids too, still maturing through the process.

Keuchly got busted his freshman year. Hasn't had a problem since. Seems to have gotten it together. Some of the above are more recent, so they come with more ????

 

[Pariah]

It might be interesting to see if the players the Cardinals select are listed above.

They're bound to take one or two. You just threw out, what, 75 names?

 

[Duckjake]

What was the criteria of drafting Cody brown . 1 of the big bust i have ever seen in. Cardinals in the last 4 year

I can't find much on why the Cards selected Cody Brown other than he was considered the best pass rusher still available and had played some OLB at UConn.

 

[Buckybird]

I can't find much on why the Cards selected Cody Brown other than he was considered the best pass rusher still available and had played some OLB at UConn.

Strickly a need pick, just like: Leinart, Levi & Rolle. Damn Graves

Let's just hope he doesnt go to the Big 10 & another #75 at OT.

 

[Duckjake]

Strickly a need pick, just like: Leinart, Levi & Rolle. Damn Graves

Let's just hope he doesnt go to the Big 10 & another #75 at OT.

Hey, I'm right there with you on the #75 but....

Leinart was the right pick. They didn't need anything really that year and could afford to take a QB of the future. A very good selection given Warner's age. Who knew that every single one of the 2006 QB class would struggle? I don't think Green would have drafted Leinart on his own though. He had passed on Aaron Rodgers the year before and remember Fishing Denny thought he could make anyone a great QB. However, the Bidwills took one look at Leinart and his Hollywood looks and background and started seeing $$$$ so Matt was the pick. Worked too. 1000's of good looking women in tight pink Leinart jersey's forced their husband's and boyfriends and girlfriends to buy club level seats at UPS! Great times bro. Great times.

Rolle wasn't a need pick either. We had Renaldo Hill who was a decent CB and David Macklin who was coming off a 4 INT season in 2004. Our 2004 Defense was the highest ranked since the 1994 group.

Larry Fitzgerald wasn't a need pick either. Boldin had just set all kinds of rookie records for a WR.

The need picks didn't start until Green left and the Cards started reaching for any guy named Brown who played a position where they needed help.

 

[Cardiac]

Strickly a need pick, just like: Leinart, Levi & Rolle. Damn Graves

Let's just hope he doesnt go to the Big 10 & another #75 at OT.

Maybe a bit or revisionist history? Leinart was considered a gift from above when he fell in our laps, hardly drafting need of BPA.

Rolle was definitley a need but Green was involved in the draft at that time and many had him rated where we picked him.

Levi was considered ..........oh never mind....REACH pick for sure and I believe Cody Brown was as well.

 

[Buckybird]

Hey, I'm right there with you on the #75 but....

Leinart was the right pick. They didn't need anything really that year and could afford to take a QB of the future. A very good selection given Warner's age. Who knew that every single one of the 2006 QB class would struggle? I don't think Green would have drafted Leinart on his own though. He had passed on Aaron Rodgers the year before and remember Fishing Denny thought he could make anyone a great QB. However, the Bidwills took one look at Leinart and his Hollywood looks and background and started seeing $$$$ so Matt was the pick. Worked too. 1000's of good looking women in tight pink Leinart jersey's forced their husband's and boyfriends and girlfriends to buy club level seats at UPS! Great times bro. Great times.

Rolle wasn't a need pick either. We had Renaldo Hill who was a decent CB and David Macklin who was coming off a 4 INT season in 2004. Our 2004 Defense was the highest ranked since the 1994 group.

Larry Fitzgerald wasn't a need pick either. Boldin had just set all kinds of rookie records for a WR.

The need picks didn't start until Green left and the Cards started reaching for any guy named Brown who played a position where they needed help.

Maybe a bit or revisionist history? Leinart was considered a gift from above when he fell in our laps, hardly drafting need of BPA.

Rolle was definitley a need but Green was involved in the draft at that time and many had him rated where we picked him.

Levi was considered ..........oh never mind....REACH pick for sure and I believe Cody Brown was as well.

I turned flips the day we took Leinart & thought he was a gift from above...until that fateful day in St. Louie. I really believe those 2 shoulders injuries took & drained Matt's confidence and mojo of what would've been a very solid NFL career. Matty checkdown was then created.

 

[Cardiac]

I turned flips the day we took Leinart & thought he was a gift from above...until that fateful day in St. Louie. I really believe those 2 shoulders injuries took & drained Matt's confidence and mojo of what would've been a very solid NFL career. Matty checkdown was then created.

I think most of did flips when Matty was picked.

I also agree the injuries had a huge negative impact on his mojo and therefore his career path.

Some things you can't fully measure, durability and inner strength.

 

[JeffGollin]

I can't find much on why the Cards selected Cody Brown other than he was considered the best pass rusher still available and had played some OLB at UConn.

Cody was considered a project - a linear guy with a little bit of flash who could somehow be transformed into an athletic pass rushing OLB. Didn't work out. Injuries didn't help. Sayonara.

 

[Cardiac]

Just listened to the podcast again and Rod Graves said a Cardinal player is what they like to call a winner. That's defined by someone who plays HARD, play TOUGH, PHYSICAL, SMART and they do the things necessary to excel at the game on and off the field.

Keim highlights Carter and Acho - To some people across the NFL those guys may have had certain holes from an ability stand point but what they made up for it in work ethic, intangibles, football character and intelligence those things are hard to read in guys. Guys like that have those have those compensating abilities really excite us and are the guys we try to focus on.

I didn't hear self motivated, high character or leadership qualities. Now if asked I'm sure they would agree with Mitch's paraphasing and interpatation, at least to a high degree. I know we have all heard Whiz talk about leadership and lockroom presence when they talk about FA's they have acquired.

Very huge undertaking Mitch, especially going through hundreds of prospects to try and figure out if they are "winners" as Graves puts it.

My thoughts are that they focus a bit more on talent level in rounds 1 & 2 and then go more with the "winner" attributes in the mid and later rounds.

I for one agree that have high character smart players is more important then just collecting a bunch of Moss's, TO's, Pacman Jones etc.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just listened to the podcast again and Rod Graves said a Cardinal player is what they like to call a winner. That's defined by someone who plays HARD, play TOUGH, PHYSICAL, SMART and they do the things necessary to excel at the game on and off the field.

Keim highlights Carter and Acho - To some people across the NFL those guys may have had certain holes from an ability stand point but what they made up for it in work ethic, intangibles, football character and intelligence those things are hard to read in guys. Guys like that have those have those compensating abilities really excite us and are the guys we try to focus on.

I didn't hear self motivated, high character or leadership qualities. Now if asked I'm sure they would agree with Mitch's paraphasing and interpatation, at least to a high degree. I know we have all heard Whiz talk about leadership and lockroom presence when they talk about FA's they have acquired.

Very huge undertaking Mitch, especially going through hundreds of prospects to try and figure out if they are "winners" as Graves puts it.

My thoughts are that they focus a bit more on talent level in rounds 1 & 2 and then go more with the "winner" attributes in the mid and later rounds.

I for one agree that have high character smart players is more important then just collecting a bunch of Moss's, TO's, Pacman Jones etc.

In the first round this tells me

Melvin Ingram
David DeCastro
Luke Keuchly
Cordy Glenn

 

[joeshmo]

My thoughts are that they focus a bit more on talent level in rounds 1 & 2 and then go more with the "winner" attributes in the mid and later rounds.

I think if you had to describe their draft strategy in one sentence, I think you would handily win the prize.

 

[Duckjake]

I think if you had to describe their draft strategy in one sentence, I think you would handily win the prize.

Wait I thought you didn't agree that the Cards were looking for Smart football players. Just guys who were regarded as top talent regardless of their intelligence on the football field?

 

[JeffGollin]

Wait I thought you didn't agree that the Cards were looking for Smart players.

There's a difference between rookies known for being smart players and veterans who have demonstrated that they are both smart and can play.

The former has to prove he can play. The latter already has.

This is especially true of smart less athletic guys because they haven't proved they're good enough physically (whereas smart vets like Marshall have proved they're up to the task athletically).

 

[Duckjake]

There's a difference between rookies known for being smart players and veterans who have demonstrated that they are both smart and can play.

The former has to prove he can play. The latter already has.

This is especially true of smart less athletic guys because they haven't proved they're good enough physically (whereas smart vets like Marshall have proved they're up to the task athletically).

Nice thoughts but they have nothing to do with what I have been talking about because Veteran players aren't part of the equation.

I really believe that the Cards brass are putting a premium on draft picks who are intelligent. They want more guys like Sam Acho and Daryl Washington.

 

[WildBB]

Nice thoughts but they have nothing to do with what I have been talking about because Veteran players aren't part of the equation.

I really believe that the Cards brass are putting a premium on draft picks who are intelligent. They want more guys like Sam Acho and Daryl Washington.

I know I do after the DRC fiasco.

 

[joeshmo]

Wait I thought you didn't agree that the Cards were looking for Smart football players. Just guys who were regarded as top talent regardless of their intelligence on the football field?

If you noticed I only mentioned 1st round prospects in the other thread. Now go back a read what Cardiac stated. But hey don't let facts get in the way. #DETAILS