2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Mainstreet]

Brogdon will become a free gent next summer although I'm sure the Bucks will do every thing they can to keep him.

I'm not sure why the Bulls would trade Dunn.

 

[Hoop Head]

Brogdon was a player that Kidd really liked and that Bledsoe trade came before Kidd got canned. I'm not sure if his lobbying the Bucks to keep Brogdon played a role in that trade or not but with Bledsoe on the verge of another contract they'll need to choose one or the other. The Bucks aren't a team known to spend into the luxury tax so it's highly unlikely they'll pay both. I wonder what it would take to get him but I would be fine with the Bucks pick returning to them for him. I would rather not include Bender with him but I wouldn't let that stop a deal from happening. If the Suns were willing to sacrifice cap space next summer to bring him then I'm sure they could make it happen by taking on a contract like Henson's with Brogdon.

 

[Errntknght]

Brogdon will become a free gent next summer although I'm sure the Bucks will do every thing they can to keep him.

I'm not sure why the Bulls would trade Dunn.

The bigger question in my mind is why they let Jerian Grant go - he played 20 more games than Dunn, 25$ more minutes, had the same assist rate and turned the ball over half as much! They still have Cameron Payne, who had decent numbers.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Let's just fix the bad deal we made with Bledsoe and send Milwaukee their pick back for Brogdon.

I searched news to see what the Bucks think of Brogdon. Take it fwiw, but Gery Woelfel (who seems to be at least a somewhat valid professional who covers Milwaukee sports) thinks the Bucks are looking to make a trade, and mentioned Brogdon on his show as one of the players being shopped.

https://storage.pinecast.net/podcas...86f6d7b/WPBP_Packers_Gutekunst_is_the_man.mp3

Starts around 22:30.

 

[Mainstreet]

The bigger question in my mind is why they let Jerian Grant go - he played 20 more games than Dunn, 25$ more minutes, had the same assist rate and turned the ball over half as much! They still have Cameron Payne, who had decent numbers.

Sometimes it boggles the mind.

 

[Mainstreet]

Brogdon was a player that Kidd really liked and that Bledsoe trade came before Kidd got canned. I'm not sure if his lobbying the Bucks to keep Brogdon played a role in that trade or not but with Bledsoe on the verge of another contract they'll need to choose one or the other. The Bucks aren't a team known to spend into the luxury tax so it's highly unlikely they'll pay both. I wonder what it would take to get him but I would be fine with the Bucks pick returning to them for him. I would rather not include Bender with him but I wouldn't let that stop a deal from happening. If the Suns were willing to sacrifice cap space next summer to bring him then I'm sure they could make it happen by taking on a contract like Henson's with Brogdon.

I wouldn't want to give up more than the Bucks pick and filler to trade for Brogdon now because he will be a free agent next summer. I would rather wait until free agency.

 

[Hoop Head]

The bigger question in my mind is why they let Jerian Grant go - he played 20 more games than Dunn, 25$ more minutes, had the same assist rate and turned the ball over half as much! They still have Cameron Payne, who had decent numbers.

The Bulls have made quite a few questionable moves over the last few years. Trying to figure out what they would want in a trade or who they would make available would be tough. Their management hasn't quite been on Sacramento's level lately but they did call the King's bluff on matching Zach Lavine's contract that will be paying him north of $20 million a year for 4 years.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wouldn't want to give up more than the Bucks pick and filler to trade for Brogdon now because he will be a free agent next summer. I would rather wait until free agency.

If Brogdon is the pg of the future for us, I do not mind giving up something now. Having that extra year to develop together as a team has significant value. But it has to be a real plan, not just throwing up another trial balloon.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Brogdon is the pg of the future for us, I do not mind giving up something now. Having that extra year to develop together as a team has significant value. But it has to be a real plan, not just throwing up another trial balloon.

I would be ok with that also but we don't know how Brogdon would fit so there is a risk involved. I think the risk is too much to give up more than the Bucks pick plus salary filler like Daniels or Chandler. The front office would need to be damn sure he's their guy going forward and that he would sign an extension here. He's a good defender, decent playmaker, and ok shooter but he's not established enough to give up much in a trade for him. The asking price should be reasonable, regardless of how the Suns feel about him. He is a backup with the Bucks and paying a price similar to what a more established player would cost would be a bad trade.

 

[Phrazbit]

Brogdon is absolutely a trial balloon.

As much as this board are not fans of Bledsoe, the Bucks were dramatically better with Bledsoe out there vs Brogdon. The Bucks wouldn't have traded for Bledsoe in the first place if Brogdon was an up and comer.

Of the guys mentioned over the last bit of posting, only Walker is not question mark. He's a really good player, no doubt. But... obviously expensive.

I'm really skeptical of Rozier and I have no interest in trading with Danny Ainge as he seemingly wins every transaction.

I wasn't a Beverly fan BEFORE his knee fell apart, I wouldn't give up anything for him at this point.

Fultz... is somewhat interesting on his own, except that he will cost WAY more than TJ Warren. The author of that article is nuts to think the Sixers are ready for that level of embarrassment.

I'm not a Dunn fan. He is a bad shooter and a putrid defender. I just don't see how a guy can hack it being terrible at both.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I just love Brogdon's fit next to Booker. He's an incredibly efficient scorer at the point guard position. He shot 49% from the floor, 39% from the 3, and 88% from the free throw line. That's not far off from 50/40/90, and he's a really good defender.

I don't think he's an all-star, but that's not necessarily what you need or even want next to Booker and Ayton. You don't need a volume scorer; you need a high efficiency shooter who plays strong defense and makes good decisions.

Brogdon had a lot less hype after his ROY performance (granted, in a very down year for rookies), but he actually raised his ppg from 10 to 13 in his sophomore campaign.

What's nice is that the Suns should have good intel. I was watching highlights from the game where Brogdon scored 32 on 11-14 shooting against the Suns, and the broadcasters mentioned that the coach who worked with him daily during the season was...Joe Prunty.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Brogdon is the pg of the future for us, I do not mind giving up something now. Having that extra year to develop together as a team has significant value. But it has to be a real plan, not just throwing up another trial balloon.

Again, unless the price is right, like the Bucks pick, I'd prefer to wait until he is a free agent if the Suns have interest.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Honestly. I think that Igor really likes Shaq. His tape from last year is impressive. His numbers are impressive, and his summer league looked good too. The things that Shaq needs to work on are the things that Igor is known to be able to fix.

I think every trade, every prospect is being compared against Shaq. That's why BK is gone. Igor became convinced that Shaq was the better player.

I just hope he can live up to it. Shaq Harrison is the PJ Tucker of point guards.

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[JCSunsfan]

Let's put it this way. If Shaq Harrison could shoot 35% from 3, would you be content with him as our starting pg?

I remember nothing but positive comments from this board last year about him during game threads. He certainly has the size, athleticism, and speed to play pg. His athleticism ranks with Marcus Smart. His handle is not exceptional but good enough. He is a willing passer but not a magician. His motor is over the top and his D is relentless. His 3 point shot is poor, but he is a great finisher at the rim.

He certainly could run the break. He can also bring the ball up and then feed Booker to run the half court offense.

If a pg we trade for is not a better fit than Shaq, what's the point in trading?

 

[GatorAZ]

Let's put it this way. If Shaq Harrison could shoot 35% from 3, would you be content with him as our starting pg?

I remember nothing but positive comments from this board last year about him during game threads. He certainly has the size, athleticism, and speed to play pg. His athleticism ranks with Marcus Smart. His handle is not exceptional but good enough. He is a willing passer but not a magician. He is motor is over the top and his D is relentless. His 3 point shot is poor, but he is a great finisher at the rim.

He certainly could run the break. He can also bring the ball up and then feed Booker to run the half court offense.

If a pg we trade for is not a better fit than Shaq, what's the point in trading?

Sounds like you’re describing a young Derek Fisher but I don’t his shot ever getting there.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sounds like you’re describing a young Derek Fisher but I don’t his shot ever getting there.

He shot 44% from three in summer league (low volume though).

 

[GatorAZ]

I agree 3&D point guards are the way to go when you have a SG of Booker’s caliber. When you look at elite SG’s of recent memory they never had those distributing type PG’s.

MJ - Armstrong and Harper
Kobe - Fisher
Wade - trash PG’s
T-Mac - trash PG’s

Other than Harden/Paul I’m trying to think of teams where their backcourt were the strength of the team and won anything significant... Isiah/Dumars? KJ/Hornacek?

 

[Hoop Head]

Let's put it this way. If Shaq Harrison could shoot 35% from 3, would you be content with him as our starting pg?

I remember nothing but positive comments from this board last year about him during game threads. He certainly has the size, athleticism, and speed to play pg. His athleticism ranks with Marcus Smart. His handle is not exceptional but good enough. He is a willing passer but not a magician. His motor is over the top and his D is relentless. His 3 point shot is poor, but he is a great finisher at the rim.

He certainly could run the break. He can also bring the ball up and then feed Booker to run the half court offense.

If a pg we trade for is not a better fit than Shaq, what's the point in trading?

Shaq is a backup, at best. He'll probably see spot minutes starting if there is an injury but he lacked the ability to feed the ball into Ayton during Summer League, which is a problem. He's only played with 1 or 2 other scorers at a time and has no experience with a team with 3 guys who can knock down 3's and a lowpost option as well. We'll see what he can do but I won't hold my breath. There is a reason he was in the G-League and made his NBA debut last season. He's not a good 3pt shooter, not that good at driving to score, has trouble making entry passes inside, and has only been guarding backups and fringe NBA players.

I would be pleasantly surprised if he can shoot better than 35% from 3 and keeps an assist to turnover ratio better than a 1.5. If he starts, I think he'll struggle to even get 10 points on his own. He won't need to be a scorer but since he's not a good facilitator he needs to give us something on offense but I don't see what that might be right now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree 3&D point guards are the way to go when you have a SG of Booker’s caliber. When you look at elite SG’s of recent memory they never had those distributing type PG’s.

MJ - Armstrong and Harper
Kobe - Fisher
Wade - trash PG’s
T-Mac - trash PG’s

Other than Harden/Paul I’m trying to think of teams where their backcourt were the strength of the team and won anything significant... Isiah/Dumars? KJ/Hornacek?

Well, the game has changed. And even with Durant and Green, it's not unreasonable to point to Curry and Thompson as the strength of the Warriors.

 

[GatorAZ]

Well, the game has changed. And even with Durant and Green, it's not unreasonable to point to Curry and Thompson as the strength of the Warriors.

Klay is an excellent two-way player but he’s never been more important for the Warriors than Green is. Teams that have their two best players in the backcourt (besides Houston) are Portland & Washington. Those two teams are unbalanced and don’t have much upside.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Klay is an excellent two-way player but he’s never been more important for the Warriors than Green is. Teams that have their two best players in the backcourt (besides Houston) are Portland & Washington. Those two teams are unbalanced and don’t have much upside.

Take him and Curry out of that lineup and I'm not sure how many minutes you could afford to have Green out there. He's the ultimate complementary player but you have to have strong players to complement. And whether you agree they are or not, as I said before, it's not unreasonable to consider the two guards to be the strength of that team.

 

[GatorAZ]

Take him and Curry out of that lineup and I'm not sure how many minutes you could afford to have Green out there. He's the ultimate complementary player but you have to have strong players to complement. And whether you agree they are or not, as I said before, it's not unreasonable to consider the two guards to be the strength of that team.

Green’s impact to that team is backed up in every RAPM stat there is. They are a different team when he’s on/off the court. The 73-win team before Durant got there he was #2 in the league behind LeBron in RPM.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2016/sort/RPM

 

[GatorAZ]

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[JCSunsfan]

Shaq is a backup, at best. He'll probably see spot minutes starting if there is an injury but he lacked the ability to feed the ball into Ayton during Summer League, which is a problem. He's only played with 1 or 2 other scorers at a time and has no experience with a team with 3 guys who can knock down 3's and a lowpost option as well. We'll see what he can do but I won't hold my breath. There is a reason he was in the G-League and made his NBA debut last season. He's not a good 3pt shooter, not that good at driving to score, has trouble making entry passes inside, and has only been guarding backups and fringe NBA players.

I would be pleasantly surprised if he can shoot better than 35% from 3 and keeps an assist to turnover ratio better than a 1.5. If he starts, I think he'll struggle to even get 10 points on his own. He won't need to be a scorer but since he's not a good facilitator he needs to give us something on offense but I don't see what that might be right now.

I would not be pleasantly surprised at 35% from three, I would be ecstatic.

If he does that, he is more than a back up pg.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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Wow that was boring.