Your reaction to the Jonathan Gannon hire?

Reaction to Gannon hire?


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slanidrac16

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I'm more concerned with philosophical changes at the moment until we get to camp.

Both Monti and Gannon come from teams with a history of playing rookies. No matter what round or UDFA. The Cards have had this weird reticense to play rookies baked in since Keim and BA took over. BA always had an obvious distrust of them and I wonder if that passed to Keim and on to others.

I'm more concerned with a change in ethos, culture and energy and from what I can tell all the new hires bring that.

That will do until we see more of them.
I agree. It always befuddled me why we wouldn’t play rookies especially when your season is tanked.
 

Crimson Warrior

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Honestly, it depends on who he hires as a coordinator but with him being focused on the defensive side of the ball, I’m sure he’s going to have a say in the overall strategy/tactics/adjustments that the DC has. He might even want to call plays, who knows how he’ll delegate.

Agree 100%, you are absolutely right of course.

I guess what I'm hoping for is that he finds a good young DC and let's his smart people be smart while he goes about improving the culture of the team, leading all his coaches and players, and keeping Bidwill from making any more cringy speeches in the locker room.
 

slanidrac16

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It’s pretty hard to beat a team like The Chiefs when your offense gives up a fumble 6 and a punt return to the 5 yard line.
I can understand the concern of many, but two good coordinators are going to be needed to solidify this choice.
None of us know how this will turn out. I wanted an experience coach too. That would not necessarily mean automatic success. there are first time coaches that have had success.
Gannon did something right. Lead the league in sacks, wouldn’t that be nice? You can slice and dice stats all day long. Giving up yards in the middle of the field when you’re up by 17 still shows up in the stat line, but it really isn’t relevant.
Let’s give this guy a chance instead of coming up with preconceived notions of certain failure.
 

BritCard

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It’s pretty hard to beat a team like The Chiefs when your offense gives up a fumble 6 and a punt return to the 5 yard line.
I can understand the concern of many, but two good coordinators are going to be needed to solidify this choice.
None of us know how this will turn out. I wanted an experience coach too. That would not necessarily mean automatic success. there are first time coaches that have had success.
Gannon did something right. Lead the league in sacks, wouldn’t that be nice? You can slice and dice stats all day long. Giving up yards in the middle of the field when you’re up by 17 still shows up in the stat line, but it really isn’t relevant.
Let’s give this guy a chance instead of coming up with preconceived notions of certain failure.

I'm ok with all the names out there so far. I'd like to see EB at OC obviously but Petzing seems like a smart up and comer. Maybe he's the next Andy Reid? Who knows? I like that he's done WR, TE and QB roles so he has a good idea of all the disciplines.

And Rallis/Zimmer on the defensive side are good options.
 

kerouac9

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I'm more concerned with philosophical changes at the moment until we get to camp.

Both Monti and Gannon come from teams with a history of playing rookies. No matter what round or UDFA. The Cards have had this weird reticense to play rookies baked in since Keim and BA took over. BA always had an obvious distrust of them and I wonder if that passed to Keim and on to others.

I'm more concerned with a change in ethos, culture and energy and from what I can tell all the new hires bring that.

That will do until we see more of them.
This is Fake News and I have no idea where it comes from. Keim (with BA and then Kliff) had a problem playing rookies who basically ended up sucking themselves out of a job early in their rookie years.

If you could play, then you'll get onto the field.

Trey McBride played 49.7% of the offensive snaps. Cam Thomas and Myjai Sanders played over 20% of the defensive snaps each.

Zaven Collins played 20% of the defensive snaps his rookie season — and over 30% of the snaps in the first couple games. His snaps decreased because he sucked according to everyone but PFF. Meanwhile, fellow rookie Marco Wilson played nearly 90% of all the defensive snaps and Rondale Moore was starting the first two weeks of his rookie season and then playing almost half the snaps until his inevitable mid-season injuries.

Isaiah Simmons started the first four games of his rookie season and was playing in about half the defensive snaps in the second half of his rookie year.

Kyler Murray started as a rookie, obviously. Byron Murphy played over 97% of the defensive snaps his rookie season, and Zach Allen was playing over 50% of the defensive snaps before he was injured as a rookie.
 
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AZCB34

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This is Fake News and I have no idea where it comes from. Keim (with BA and then Kliff) had a problem playing rookies who basically ended up sucking themselves out of a job early in their rookie years.

If you could play, then you'll get onto the field.

Trey McBride played 49.7% of the offensive snaps. Cam Thomas and Myjai Sanders played over 20% of the defensive snaps each.

Zaven Collins played 20% of the defensive snaps his rookie season — and over 30% of the snaps in the first couple games. His snaps decreased because he sucked according to everyone but PFF. Meanwhile, fellow rookie Marco Wilson played nearly 40% of all the defensive snaps and Rondale Moore was starting the first two weeks of his rookie season and then playing almost half the snaps until his inevitable mid-season injuries.

Isaiah Simmons started the first four games of his rookie season and was playing in about half the defensive snaps in the second half of his rookie year.

Kyler Murray started as a rookie, obviously. Byron Murphy played over 97% of the defensive snaps his rookie season, and Zach Allen was playing over 50% of the defensive snaps before he was injured as a rookie.
Agreed. It was obvious the players didn’t earn the right to be on the field because if they were playing great they would have been out there. Vance wants his best production players on the field. Every coach does.

In all facets of life. It seems people demand others be held accountable for effort and production but not on the Cardinals. They look past crappy play and effort and blame others.
 

BritCard

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This is Fake News and I have no idea where it comes from. Keim (with BA and then Kliff) had a problem playing rookies who basically ended up sucking themselves out of a job early in their rookie years.

If you could play, then you'll get onto the field.

Trey McBride played 49.7% of the offensive snaps. Cam Thomas and Myjai Sanders played over 20% of the defensive snaps each.

Zaven Collins played 20% of the defensive snaps his rookie season — and over 30% of the snaps in the first couple games. His snaps decreased because he sucked according to everyone but PFF. Meanwhile, fellow rookie Marco Wilson played nearly 40% of all the defensive snaps and Rondale Moore was starting the first two weeks of his rookie season and then playing almost half the snaps until his inevitable mid-season injuries.

Isaiah Simmons started the first four games of his rookie season and was playing in about half the defensive snaps in the second half of his rookie year.

Kyler Murray started as a rookie, obviously. Byron Murphy played over 97% of the defensive snaps his rookie season, and Zach Allen was playing over 50% of the defensive snaps before he was injured as a rookie.

McBride only played because Ertz went down. Before that he barely touched the ball.

Thomas and Sanders should have played far more than they did given who they were up against.

Zaven playing 20% from pick #16 was a joke. Same with Simmons.

Patrick Queen and Kenneth Murray both sucked as rookies but their teams took the short term pain for long term gain.

The Eagles had an undrafted rookie safety from Middle Tennessee that didn't get a combine invite play more snaps this year than Simmons or Zaven had as rookies.

Even Budda barely touched the field until game 10 as a rookie.

We sent a 5th for the trash bag that is Cody Ford instead of trusting rookies we drafted.

Rookies getting any decent playing time have been a rarity and often forced by injury.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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The second half performance of the Eagles D doesn't bother me at all. They were playing the Chiefs, Mahomes, and a guru coach who made great adjustments at half like he does every week. The Chiefs found that one play they scored twice off of back to back which Eagles simply couldn't react to, the great run back which set up perfectly after the first Eagle who had a shot at him let him get away, and of course the fumble return TD. And maybe the best thing of all for the Chiefs is that they got that confidence thing going that makes it near impossible to beat.

I was impressed with Chiefs blocking adjustments for 2nd half, and oh yes, that one legged Chief QB who made that long run at a crucial time. It is just dang hard to beat the Chiefs, especially the 2nd half Chief team that comes out after halftime every week. Heck, all the Chiefs need is 13 seconds and the ball anywhere on the field to beat just about anyone. Moral is: better have a 9 point lead the last time you give the Chiefs the ball.
 

kerouac9

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We sent a 5th for the trash bag that is Cody Ford instead of trusting rookies we drafted.
The late 3rd day picks? One of whom spent the season on IR? The other who was benched for Coward?

My guy. You’re gonna have to do better than that.
 

dreamcastrocks

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The second half performance of the Eagles D doesn't bother me at all. They were playing the Chiefs, Mahomes, and a guru coach who made great adjustments at half like he does every week. The Chiefs found that one play they scored twice off of back to back which Eagles simply couldn't react to, the great run back which set up perfectly after the first Eagle who had a shot at him let him get away, and of course the fumble return TD. And maybe the best thing of all for the Chiefs is that they got that confidence thing going that makes it near impossible to beat.

I was impressed with Chiefs blocking adjustments for 2nd half, and oh yes, that one legged Chief QB who made that long run at a crucial time. It is just dang hard to beat the Chiefs, especially the 2nd half Chief team that comes out after halftime every week. Heck, all the Chiefs need is 13 seconds and the ball anywhere on the field to beat just about anyone. Moral is: better have a 9 point lead the last time you give the Chiefs the ball.
You know what was funny about that? I was talking to Linda after the Chiefs went up by 7 with the extra point to go. Against conventional wisdom, I would have gone for 2 in that situation to bring the Chiefs to a 9 point league.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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You know what was funny about that? I was talking to Linda after the Chiefs went up by 7 with the extra point to go. Against conventional wisdom, I would have gone for 2 in that situation to bring the Chiefs to a 9 point league.
I didn't think about that at the time, but have thought about it before in games where a team doesn't seem to be able to stop the other team, like when a team is playing the Chiefs.

It makes total sense to me. I always believe in going for the win, putting the nail in the coffin, finishing the team off when you have the chance. If I ever scored at the end and could win or lose by going for 2 points as opposed to OT, I would go for the win when I have the chance. I feel you came to the game to win, so win it when you have the chance. Why ever give it back to the other team or a coin flip to decide who wins.
 

Stout

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This is Fake News and I have no idea where it comes from. Keim (with BA and then Kliff) had a problem playing rookies who basically ended up sucking themselves out of a job early in their rookie years.

If you could play, then you'll get onto the field.

Trey McBride played 49.7% of the offensive snaps. Cam Thomas and Myjai Sanders played over 20% of the defensive snaps each.

Zaven Collins played 20% of the defensive snaps his rookie season — and over 30% of the snaps in the first couple games. His snaps decreased because he sucked according to everyone but PFF. Meanwhile, fellow rookie Marco Wilson played nearly 90% of all the defensive snaps and Rondale Moore was starting the first two weeks of his rookie season and then playing almost half the snaps until his inevitable mid-season injuries.

Isaiah Simmons started the first four games of his rookie season and was playing in about half the defensive snaps in the second half of his rookie year.

Kyler Murray started as a rookie, obviously. Byron Murphy played over 97% of the defensive snaps his rookie season, and Zach Allen was playing over 50% of the defensive snaps before he was injured as a rookie.
Yeah, bad take, as has been pointed out. He loved playing the Nieman's of the world over younger players. Huge weakness with VJ.
 

Azlen

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RON_IN_OC

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Me: presents data
Haters: here’s some vibes
It's true, you presented data...however, I think what others are pointing out is the following data:

There is no planet in the galaxy where Dogbe (25.38%) and Ledbetter (24.75%) should get more playing time than Cam Thomas (21.24%)...The snaps that Vallejo (25.2%), Gardeck (18.81%), and Niemann (43.29%...yes you read that right) should have been allotted more to Sanders (23.31%). Vance has babied rookies and limited their playing time and development from jump, unless injuries dictate no other option, but to finally play them. Marco Wilson was not going to start and play as much, as a rookie, until the preseason injuries forced him into action.
 

kerouac9

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It's true, you presented data...however, I think what others are pointing out is the following data:

There is no planet in the galaxy where Dogbe (25.38%) and Ledbetter (24.75%) should get more playing time than Cam Thomas (21.24%)...The snaps that Vallejo (25.2%), Gardeck (18.81%), and Niemann (43.29%...yes you read that right) should have been allotted more to Sanders (23.31%). Vance has babied rookies and limited their playing time and development from jump, unless injuries dictate no other option, but to finally play them. Marco Wilson was not going to start and play as much, as a rookie, until the preseason injuries forced him into action.
You’re talking about maybe 50 snaps scattered over the course of the season that makes up that difference.

Important context is that Sanders is a situational pass rusher right now and the 2022 Cards didn’t create enough pass rush opportunities to make him useful. Even then, Sanders was seeing tons of snaps after week 10.

Examples here and there don’t erase that Kliff/Bruce/Vance didn’t mind playing rookies as long as there was a spot for them and the didn’t suck.
 

dreamcastrocks

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